What Mark Ashton actually said about January

[Nibor]

2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I wouldn't say its clear - people on here have made a best efforts attempt at estimating the accounts and FFP margin and its a good guide but I wouldn't take it as definitive. It seems to me that players need to be off the books in order for incomings and that is happening to a degree.

Everything MA said at the beginning of December seems perfectly logical to me and puts the January window into perspective.

I'm hopeful that we can get a couple in but if we don't I won't be blaming the club at all.

But each to their own and whilst I don't believe you have any axe to grind and its your opinion, there are others that will have an agenda and not getting any players in will fit perfectly into those agendas.

My objection is more what he said about the summer than January.  I acknowledge January is difficult, but there's no getting away from the fact that hanging around waiting for the arsenal kid to pull his finger out of his arse was a serious mistake that we have now repeated.  On the FFP front, there's enough room to manoeuvre particularly when you consider you can sell in the summer if you need to.

[And Its Smith]

45 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Nothing like getting your excuses in early, and they are mostly nonsense.

I'm afraid that whilst it's true January is difficult, our need was great and by not being ready to sign someone on 1st (and wasting two weeks sniffing round the arsenal kid again like a mug) we have seriously damaged our chances of a top 6 finish.

The reason our need was great was because we had very little depth in goalscoring, and that was exposed once Afobe was injured.  Semenyo is miles away from ready, Taylor wasn't good enough, Diedhiou is ok for one type of approach and Wieman is ok for a completely different approach, but the manager seems to want to play two up top and it doesn't work.  We needed another forward in the summer and the reason we haven't got one is that we planned poorly and put all of our eggs in one basket.

Ashton should have owned that and got on with persuading SL to part with some more not-very-hard-earned and pay the January premium.

Frankly you don’t know what eggs we have in which baskets. You don’t know we wasted two weeks chasing one player.  Pretty sure we don’t approach one player at a time.  

[ROSEBUD RED]

37 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Sick and tired you been hanging on me..... 

Mr Ashton You make me sad with your eyes
You're telling me lies

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, Nibor said:

My objection is more what he said about the summer than January.  I acknowledge January is difficult, but there's no getting away from the fact that hanging around waiting for the arsenal kid to pull his finger out of his arse was a serious mistake that we have now repeated.  On the FFP front, there's enough room to manoeuvre particularly when you consider you can sell in the summer if you need to.

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought all other possible recruitment was stopped while we waited for Nketiah/Arsenal to stop arsing around. That would be extremely stupid given previous experience. Thinking about it, his loan would have been tantamount to a relatively big signing given the loan fee and wages so there may well be enough margin to recruit as you say. Depends what constitutes "big" signing I suppose - £5m plus associated fees etc ?

I'm not sure about selling in the summer to cover FFP shortfall is relevant as the accounts should be posted before then. Or have I got that wrong ?

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought all other possible recruitment was stopped while we waited for Nketiah/Arsenal to stop arsing around. That would be extremely stupid given previous experience. Thinking about it, his loan would have been tantamount to a relatively big signing given the loan fee and wages so there may well be enough margin to recruit as you say. Depends what constitutes "big" signing I suppose - £5m plus associated fees etc ?

I'm not sure about selling in the summer to cover FFP shortfall is relevant as the accounts should be posted before then. Or have I got that wrong ?

Anyone with half a brain in business will hope for the best and plan for the worst. I am sure they were planning for Nketiah to not come. If I stopped working whilst I hoped for a big customer order I’d be close to being sacked! 

[Nibor]

19 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Frankly you don’t know what eggs we have in which baskets. You don’t know we wasted two weeks chasing one player.  Pretty sure we don’t approach one player at a time.  

Well, nobody knows but I'd suggest that when the target striker you've been linked with all summer signs for a rival at the every end of the window and you squeeze in a signing 30 minutes before the deadline the conclusions do leap out.

And whilst we don't approach one player at a time, in any line of business it is very unlikely you can get any complex deal near to completion and then pause it to wait and see what happens with the first choice.  There are consequences in hanging on hoping too long.

The mistake was in not giving arsenal a walk away date that allowed comfortable time to fix it.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Nibor said:

Well, nobody knows but I'd suggest that when the target striker you've been linked with all summer signs for a rival at the every end of the window and you squeeze in a signing 30 minutes before the deadline the conclusions do leap out.

And whilst we don't approach one player at a time, in any line of business it is very unlikely you can get any complex deal near to completion and then pause it to wait and see what happens with the first choice.

The mistake was in not giving arsenal a walk away date that allowed comfortable time to fix it.

We planned to miss out on Nketiah. Hence we could move quickly for Afobe. Good business sense 

[Nibor]

Just now, RedDave said:

We planned to miss out on Nketiah. Hence we could move quickly for Afobe. Good business sense 

And that went so well we planned to miss out on him again in January? 

Take the rose tinted specs off, when Ashton does well praise him and when he ***** up hold him to account.  This is very obviously the latter.

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Nibor said:

And that went so well we planned to miss out on him again in January? 

Take the rose tinted specs off, when Ashton does well praise him and when he ***** up hold him to account.  This is very obviously the latter.

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes yet assume the worst and assume the men running a pretty successful business are clueless.  Why?

As I said in another post, anyone with half a brain plans for the worst so the chances are we have done that again. Unless you think Mark Ashton is stupid 

[CodeRed]

2 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Except you're missing the point this was said in December. Before Arsenal ****** us again.

No it just illustrates how far ahead of the market Captain Bullshit always is...........He's busy putting out the fire before it's even started!

 

[Alessandro]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Putting my issues with LJ aside... 

Im not sure even with his loyalty to Johnson, SL would want to spank a load more cash on a transfer policy that’s seen more miss than hit. And really, who can blame him. 
 

With it currently looking 50/50 as to whether we’ll have a new man in charge in June, he might want to keep a little ammo in the ‘war chest’ (god I love that phrase!) for the potential new man. 

Interesting argument.....

I thought you, along with many other Johnson outers think we’ve spent more than enough on players already (50 plus players a favourite argument) and the missing piece is a new coach that would just come in and ‘coach’ our excellent squad to the next level?

Now you’re saying that players do need to be bought? That begs the question, if someone did come in and have to spend cash implementing a new style, how long could that re-build take? 1 season, 2 or 3? Some might argue what could LJ achieve in that same time period if, we progress and improve our revenue and therefore squad as it slowly has been?
 

Either way, in all seriousness, a new manager is potentially going to have to come in and work with/under MA and the same team of analysts and scouts etc and  under the same constraints as LJ anyway.
 

[Xiled]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Thanks Dave, those are better stats!

I still hope Semenyo comes good but the signs aren't great at present. He definitely needs more playing time and another loan might help as it has with other players.

But the issue remains, through the development path for young players we haven't produced a Premier League level striker in all the years I've been watching City. The best strikers I've seen have been the product of another club's development.

[Nibor]

18 minutes ago, RedDave said:

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes yet assume the worst and assume the men running a pretty successful business are clueless.  Why?

As I said in another post, anyone with half a brain plans for the worst so the chances are we have done that again. Unless you think Mark Ashton is stupid 

I'm sorry but in the real world smart people make mistakes and not everyone who makes mistakes lacks half a brain.

Believing that what happened in the summer was anything less than a serious mistake is not a credible view.

[Up The City!]

15 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

No it just illustrates how far ahead of the market Captain Bullshit always is...........He's busy putting out the fire before it's even started!

 

The market that has been deadly quiet you mean?

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I'm sorry but in the real world smart people make mistakes and not everyone who makes mistakes lacks half a brain.

Believing that what happened in the summer was anything less than a serious mistake is not a credible view.

Have to agree to disagree then I guess. As you say nobody knows really so I would say most views on it are pretty credible 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought all other possible recruitment was stopped while we waited for Nketiah/Arsenal to stop arsing around. That would be extremely stupid given previous experience. Thinking about it, his loan would have been tantamount to a relatively big signing given the loan fee and wages so there may well be enough margin to recruit as you say. Depends what constitutes "big" signing I suppose - £5m plus associated fees etc ?

I'm not sure about selling in the summer to cover FFP shortfall is relevant as the accounts should be posted before then. Or have I got that wrong ?

We’d have to conclude a sale by 31st May, which was what we did with Kelly, hence profit in 18/19’s accounts.

We must also be mindful that we have to submit projected accounts in March to EFL, and I can’t imagine we can say ‘it’s ok, we are hoping to sell Josh for £7m in mid-end of May’.

I don’t think EFL would buy that, unless we are Aston Villa

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

With it currently looking 50/50 as to whether we’ll have a new man in charge in June, he might want to keep a little ammo in the ‘war chest’ (god I love that phrase!) for the potential new man. 

I admire your optimism. Personally I think it's more 1/99.

3 hours ago, Xiled said:

Finally, why do we not have a functioning pathway for young strikers? Most of us were excited when Semenyo was recalled from Newport County but for one reason or another he hasn't even got a regular place on the bench. Blame whoever you like but the reality is that he hasn't done enough to warrant more than being a distant backup option. When was the last time we 'produced' our own top level striker? In 40 years of watching Bristol City I can't actually recall a striker who has come through the reserves/academy, become a first team player and been sold for a decent price.

Post Mabbutt, we haven't produced a single striker good enough to make it (Lita was Chelsea).

If we haven't produced a striker, it's impossible to demonstrate a striker pathway.

So it's not the pathway that's the problem.

[cidercity1987]

3 hours ago, Xiled said:

Thanks for posting that transcription @Olé, it is useful to actually read what was said rather than seeing conjecture built on conjecture.

I guess I'm left with three observations. Firstly as much as I rate Mark Ashton because I think he has improved our selling of players beyond my best expectation, I still don't believe him. That's not to be dismissive or disprespectful but I'm certain he has a completely different private transfer agenda compared to the one he talks about in interviews. That's the nature of the game as you cannot afford to be too public about these things.

Secondly, "Let’s be really clear we’ve had an injury to Benik that no one could have foreseen". Let's actually be honest, it wasn't the most unlikely injury given that he suffered a ligament injury in 2013.

Finally, why do we not have a functioning pathway for young strikers? Most of us were excited when Semenyo was recalled from Newport County but for one reason or another he hasn't even got a regular place on the bench. Blame whoever you like but the reality is that he hasn't done enough to warrant more than being a distant backup option. When was the last time we 'produced' our own top level striker? In 40 years of watching Bristol City I can't actually recall a striker who has come through the reserves/academy, become a first team player and been sold for a decent price.

I appreciate that good strikers are hard to find and many are signed up by Premier League academies as young kids but they are also the most valuable players. Where's the pathway and the development? Are we just unlucky?

No functioning pathway for strikers.... I would blame the fans as that position is the most important for the majority. Easier to develop a fullback or a midfielder alongside another but if you have a striker with potential, if he aint scoring for 5 games, he aint playing.

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, Xiled said:

Thanks for posting that transcription @Olé, it is useful to actually read what was said rather than seeing conjecture built on conjecture.

I guess I'm left with three observations. Firstly as much as I rate Mark Ashton because I think he has improved our selling of players beyond my best expectation, I still don't believe him. That's not to be dismissive or disprespectful but I'm certain he has a completely different private transfer agenda compared to the one he talks about in interviews. That's the nature of the game as you cannot afford to be too public about these things.

Secondly, "Let’s be really clear we’ve had an injury to Benik that no one could have foreseen". Let's actually be honest, it wasn't the most unlikely injury given that he suffered a ligament injury in 2013.

Finally, why do we not have a functioning pathway for young strikers? Most of us were excited when Semenyo was recalled from Newport County but for one reason or another he hasn't even got a regular place on the bench. Blame whoever you like but the reality is that he hasn't done enough to warrant more than being a distant backup option. When was the last time we 'produced' our own top level striker? In 40 years of watching Bristol City I can't actually recall a striker who has come through the reserves/academy, become a first team player and been sold for a decent price.

I appreciate that good strikers are hard to find and many are signed up by Premier League academies as young kids but they are also the most valuable players. Where's the pathway and the development? Are we just unlucky?

The last strikers to come through are Lita, Tom Ritchie and Kevin Mabbutt.

I stand to be corrected if I've overlooked anyone.

[Tin Soldier]

Lots of bull shit from Ashton again. Follows up nicely from lots of bull shit from Johnson.

Fact is, with a few exceptions, the City squad are mainly a collection of misfits, hopeful stars for tomorrow and donkeys that will never make the grade at Championship level. We are never going to attract the quality of player we all know we need up front. There will be a major clear out forth coming this summer. Will get messy and can see Johnson going.

[MarcusX]

5 hours ago, phantom said:

That's the we will just plod along and see if we get lucky over the remainder of the season kind of attitude though? 

We don't have an attacking Plan B as it is at the moment 

Does the club want to push on a go for promotion or be like the past few January's and drift away slowly. 

The other bigger issue is that if Diedhiou gets injured we've nothing in reserve.

This is also what LJ said in the past https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/48140826

If we dont find the right person for the right price, would you rather we just signed ANYONE just for the sake of it?

I'd rather we signed no-one than get held to ransom or end up buying someone shit, because weve made some shocking January transfers in the past

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Agree, as I said in the thread in the transfer forum, I am not actually going to be too bothered if we don't get anyone in, I think we need a striker, but pick a stable system that suits our players and stick with a team and I think we can make the top 6 I don't think our squad is far off being where it needs to be. 

For me that means throwing any 2 striker systems in the bin as unless you are going to go balls out and play Semenyo and Fam for the rest of the season and hope it works then we do not have the players for that, but any variation of 4-5-1 will work fine with the squad we have and probably suit them much better, and re evaluate when Afobe is back. 

But it's not going to be the end of the world if we don't get anyone in, we have been gash for most of the season and are sat 1 point off the playoffs, if we can improve performances, which for me can be done without making changes and just picking the same team and style week in and week out we will continue to be there or there abouts. Leeds and WBA are being dragged back to the chasing pack and if we pick up points in the next few games we are likely to be close to either of them than we have any right to be. 

Ashton will be preparing not just for this window but the summer and beyond .

He doesn’t wake up the 1st of January and think ‘ oh shit , I better buy some players ‘ as some people seem to think .

 

[Xiled]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

If we dont find the right person for the right price, would you rather we just signed ANYONE just for the sake of it?

I'd rather we signed no-one than get held to ransom or end up buying someone shit, because weve made some shocking January transfers in the past

The majority of January business has been bringing in players on loan so as disappointing as it might be, they are usually gone again by the end of the season.

It is a difficult time to recruit a player and I agree that I would rather have nobody than waste money on bad players.

But the point is surely this, what the **** is going on?  The much used phrase "you had one job" comes into mind. I really like Diedhiou and Weimann but for a team with a target to reach the play-offs, very few supporters would have said that we ended last season with the strikeforce we needed. So we spend all summer chasing a young lad at Arsenal and when that doesn't work we take a chance on an out-of-form striker from Stoke. Absolutely no disprespect intended because Benik Afobe looked like he would play his heart out for us and I really want him back and playing for us again. And he's living a nightmare that I can't beginning to imagine. So the critism is not directed at him for one second.

But where was Ashton's contingency? We have a big squad, we keep signing ones for the future and loaning them out. We sign a succession of players for the same position. We change formation. We rotate the squad. Where's the plan?!!!

The baseline can't be that we sign nobody for fear of signing someone shit. As @Nibor said "not everyone who makes mistakes lacks half a brain". This has been another summer and January **** up.

[glynriley]

17 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Ashton will be preparing not just for this window but the summer and beyond .

He doesn’t wake up the 1st of January and think ‘ oh shit , I better buy some players ‘ as some people seem to think .

 

Yet we have needed a striker for 3 seasons now, and our last 2 permanent deals have been Matt Taylor and Mo Eisa...

[Redrascal2]

32 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Ashton will be preparing not just for this window but the summer and beyond .

He doesn’t wake up the 1st of January and think ‘ oh shit , I better buy some players ‘ as some people seem to think .

 

Well his performance in the search for s striker would suggest that is what he does do. If all the  meticulous research is done before the window then surely we might have  had a striker in by now. Instead of chasing targets we seem to have a little chance of getting.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Post Mabbutt, we haven't produced a single striker good enough to make it

Colin Lee?

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

Colin Lee?

It's perhaps splitting hairs but wasn't he contemporaneous, rather than post Mabbutt?

And he wasn't much cop either, bar his debut for Spurs!

[Guest]

Cant see why anyone is suprised, its normal for us; speculate to accumulate is not us.

We will look for that bargain from below or abroad and then promise to build.....again...... in the summer.......to sell ST`s of course.

[Tin Soldier]

10 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

Cant see why anyone is suprised, its normal for us; speculate to accumulate is not us.

We will look for that bargain from below or abroad and then promise to build.....again...... in the summer.......to sell ST`s of course.

Agree. You are on the money there. But I will not be getting one next season and I predict a significant drop in season tickets sales next season amongst others will decide to now renew. Too many false promises for me.

Fans are seeing through all the “spin” now IMO.

[BTRFTG]

17 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's perhaps splitting hairs but wasn't he contemporaneous, rather than post Mabbutt?

And he wasn't much cop either, bar his debut for Spurs!

As you realise we're struggling on the striker front....scraping at barrels.....