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Dredd

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Before I start, I want to make clear that I think Ashton has got some remarkable transfer fees in for the club over the last few years and this can only be applauded. But, are we rubbish with contracts? Everything seems to go down to the last 12 months. 
Bryan, Reid, Brownhill, Eliasson, COD, Walsh, all got down to 12 months or we have had to invoke the year extension on their deal. I believe Fam and Baker are also coming up to 12 months left. 

COD obviously did eventually sign but Reid and Bryan had zero intent on renewing, Flint did us a solid so we maximised his value but young players aside I don’t remember many players renewing bar COD and ironically Brownhill around the time of the United game. 
Do we have an issue getting players to commit?

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3 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Before I start, I want to make clear that I think Ashton has got some remarkable transfer fees in for the club over the last few years and this can only be applauded. But, are we rubbish with contracts? Everything seems to go down to the last 12 months. 
Bryan, Reid, Brownhill, Eliasson, COD, Walsh, all got down to 12 months or we have had to invoke the year extension on their deal. I believe Fam and Baker are also coming up to 12 months left. 

COD obviously did eventually sign but Reid and Bryan had zero intent on renewing, Flint did us a solid so we maximised his value but young players aside I don’t remember many players renewing bar COD and ironically Brownhill around the time of the United game. 
Do we have an issue getting players to commit?

Must be part of the cycle. Sign young up and comers on 3-4 year contracts on cheap wages and by the time they get to their last year they are worth a few bob and can sell rather than doubling their wages. I don’t think anyone wants to sign for more than 4 years at this level.

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Extending contracts costs money.  The earlier you do it the more it costs you.  You will get exceptions like Taylor Moore, who halved his wages to get another year, or an older player taking less to hang around, but generally it increases the wage bill.

We need to run a tight ship, and I suspect once this window is over we will know what the budget for extensions is.  That might result in some contracts offers materialising.

In some cases there are ffp advantages of extending, as you can spread any amortised contract values over a longer period.  For example Fam’s contract amortisation will be 1/4 of £5.3m in the summer, so £1.325m.  If we give him another year, you split that in 2, so £0.6125m both years, meaning a saving of £0.6125 in the P&L from what would’ve been projected had he let his contract run down....plus you can always sell him with 2 years left (better value) than 1 year left.

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24 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Before I start, I want to make clear that I think Ashton has got some remarkable transfer fees in for the club over the last few years and this can only be applauded. But, are we rubbish with contracts? Everything seems to go down to the last 12 months. 
Bryan, Reid, Brownhill, Eliasson, COD, Walsh, all got down to 12 months or we have had to invoke the year extension on their deal. I believe Fam and Baker are also coming up to 12 months left. 

COD obviously did eventually sign but Reid and Bryan had zero intent on renewing, Flint did us a solid so we maximised his value but young players aside I don’t remember many players renewing bar COD and ironically Brownhill around the time of the United game. 
Do we have an issue getting players to commit?

No I don't think so. We sign players on a 3 +1 or 2 1/2 + 1 year deal usually.

We could like extend them after one season, but that also carries a risk so we wait until year two, and then they only have 18 months or 2 years left on a deal.

You can sign people on five year deals, but then you got to be right a lot. So there's risk in that as well.

I think we're pretty sensible. You got to remember there's no incentive for players to renew their contracts if they don't care where they live. You would totally run down your contract and test the market if you believe in yourself. Agents will be telling you what you could make elsewhere, whether true or not, and the promise of you getting the transfer fee rather than a club is super appetising.

I think the multiple big profits we've been making on transfer deals sows we're being run pretty damn well, buying and selling at the right times.

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I think a lot (if not all) of the players you mentioned had outgrown the club, they wanted to try themselves in the Premier League or at a club who could realistically challenge more than we could to get there & all moved for a better personal package to arguably bigger clubs at the time of their leaving.

We have always said that we would look to maximise profits on each individual & that we wouldn’t look to stand in anyone’s way if it meant them improving their careers & that is what we’ve allowed them to do & that is also a reason we’re able to attract the new players we do because they know that if the opportunity arises, they won’t be held back.

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7 hours ago, Dredd said:

Before I start, I want to make clear that I think Ashton has got some remarkable transfer fees in for the club over the last few years and this can only be applauded. But, are we rubbish with contracts? Everything seems to go down to the last 12 months. 
Bryan, Reid, Brownhill, Eliasson, COD, Walsh, all got down to 12 months or we have had to invoke the year extension on their deal. I believe Fam and Baker are also coming up to 12 months left. 

COD obviously did eventually sign but Reid and Bryan had zero intent on renewing, Flint did us a solid so we maximised his value but young players aside I don’t remember many players renewing bar COD and ironically Brownhill around the time of the United game. 
Do we have an issue getting players to commit?

No we don’t, it’s just we sell players when there value is almost at its maximum,

flint and Reid have both been sold on for nothing like what we got for them

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8 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Must be part of the cycle. Sign young up and comers on 3-4 year contracts on cheap wages and by the time they get to their last year they are worth a few bob and can sell rather than doubling their wages. I don’t think anyone wants to sign for more than 4 years at this level.

I do wonder how much of out identifying players is actually about making them better players for City or that they are seen as an investment we can cash in on in the future?

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21 minutes ago, phantom said:

I do wonder how much of out identifying players is actually about making them better players for City or that they are seen as an investment we can cash in on in the future?

You have to consider any potential future value as football is more business like than ever with the £££ involved and FFP, which is going to rumble a few clubs out yet. Best way to balance our books is cash in on an asset (player) when at top of their value, and if still young make sure there's a sell on clause included. How many can believe we get nahki in for josh and make £££ on the deal. 

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8 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

I think a lot (if not all) of the players you mentioned had outgrown the club, they wanted to try themselves in the Premier League or at a club who could realistically challenge more than we could to get there & all moved for a better personal package to arguably bigger clubs at the time of their leaving.

We have always said that we would look to maximise profits on each individual & that we wouldn’t look to stand in anyone’s way if it meant them improving their careers & that is what we’ve allowed them to do & that is also a reason we’re able to attract the new players we do because they know that if the opportunity arises, they won’t be held back.

Agree, and I think City are now getting to a point where we (on the flip-side) are starting to attract players like Wells who have outgrown their club (in this case QPR - their loan club), and are looking to better themselves.

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

No we don’t, it’s just we sell players when there value is almost at its maximum,

flint and Reid have both been sold on for nothing like what we got for them

Flint went to Cardiff from Boro for the same (according to various source)

Reid went from Cardiff to Fulham for either the same or a small profit (depending on source)

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This is a weird thread.

How else would you suggest we do it?  Force every player that joins into a lifetime contract just in case their deals come close to an end?

And we haven't even lost any players due to them being out of contract anyway.

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24 minutes ago, Roe said:

This is a weird thread.

How else would you suggest we do it?  Force every player that joins into a lifetime contract just in case their deals come close to an end?

And we haven't even lost any players due to them being out of contract anyway.

11 year contracts is the way, we did that in the 70’s and it worked well.............

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12 hours ago, Monkeh said:

No we don’t, it’s just we sell players when there value is almost at its maximum,

flint and Reid have both been sold on for nothing like what we got for them

Do you not think Reid Bryan Brownhill would have been worth more with more than 12 months on their contracts?

We seem to identify these players with a sell on potential but maybe don’t recognise that potential mid contract and tie them down for longer. There will be those that don’t want to sign but it seems a bit more regular at the moment. 
As I said I think Ashton is working wonders with some of the fees we get in but could it be more? Interesting to see what happens with Eliasson now he’s getting interest from some big clubs. 
 

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8 hours ago, Roe said:

This is a weird thread.

How else would you suggest we do it?  Force every player that joins into a lifetime contract just in case their deals come close to an end?

And we haven't even lost any players due to them being out of contract anyway.

Liam Rosenior was assuredly the last? 

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6 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Do you not think Reid Bryan Brownhill would have been worth more with more than 12 months on their contracts?

We seem to identify these players with a sell on potential but maybe don’t recognise that potential mid contract and tie them down for longer. There will be those that don’t want to sign but it seems a bit more regular at the moment.
 

But we did do that with Brownhill (and Bryan and Reid).  He signed a new contract 2 years ago (a year and a half into his first contract with us), and it was that contract that has enabled us to sell him for a good amount now.

Getting a sense of deja vu here as I'm sure someone tried to bring up this point before.

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Reid we had no intention I reckon of giving him an extension till he got moved up front and hit that hot streak. 
This isn’t me having a pop, nobody can argue that the clubs trading over the last three years has been excellent. Just putting up for discussion that there seem to have been a lot of players sold late into their deals and we don’t see a lot of renewals lately. With NE NB and FD OOC in the summer it means if they don’t commit to a new contract they will likely be off too. 

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