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38 years ago today . . .

CyderInACan

By CyderInACan
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054123

054123

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RedM said:

I understand that people want it acknowledged, but ow many milestones/achievements/memorials are marked on the 38th,or any other random number, anniversary? I think the club will honour the past in two years time, but I understand why they wouldn’t every year.

I wouldn’t get to focused on the ‘38th’ but, the more relevant point is how this players are remembered or honored by the club. 

Dare I say it, but I’d like to think if I was billionaire Steve Lansdown, I would have thought a lot more about this situation and what could be done for those players today.

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New Dazzler

New Dazzler

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

When you become old enough to have lived through events which are now referred to as 'history' it's only natural you want it reported as you remember it from the time.

From that point of view I concur with the gist of the above.

That's not to say Sir Geoffrey, Jimmy Mann, Trevor Tainton, Gerry Sweeney, and Chris Garland (during 2 spells at the club) should not be forever remembered by the club and fans with gratitude as outstanding servants to BCFC - they truly were, and remain some of my all time City heroes.

David Rodgers is not a similar all time great imo, but he had a good City career and there was never a doubt that he gave his all for the club.

Aitken and Marshall barely featured for City by comparison, and I've always thought of Aitken as primarily a Rovers' man both before and after his short stint at AG.

The true heroes of the hour for BCFC afaic were, and always will be, Deryn Coller and Ken Sage, and they deserve far more recognition for everything they did to save the club.

You, and the others who have pointed out the truth and facts of how this whole A8 saga played out, have hit many nails on the head, and yet we still have this ridiculous song about "8 men had a dream".  They were all having nightmares on the pitch, as we fell from Division 1 and were fast approaching Division 4 with these players at the core of these abysmal performances and results. 

As you say, 5 of those players were integral to our promotion and/or performed admirably in the top flight.  My personal opinion is that I would add David Rodgers to the 5 as his partnership in central defence alongside Norman Hunter in 78/79 was extremely effective, I would also say that Geoff Merrick was brilliant in getting us to the top flight, but he suffered being shuffled out to left back, and then lengthy spells out of the side due to injury.  However, by 1982, as shown by the results and league position, these players were way past their best,  and basically bleeding the club dry, as the administrators quickly realised that their contracts were unsustainable. It always makes me laugh/cry that anyone could seriously consider Aitken and (especially) Marshall to be Bristol City "heroes".

I also think that if OTIB/Social Media had existed at the time, the view of the 8, and their performances in 1981/82, would have been torn to shreds by most on here.  But back then we were drip fed news by the EP and local media (and in this case the national media) tended to make out the Ashton 8 as the victims and therefore the heroes who "saved" the club.  As has been said, and nobody likes to see anyone lose their job, they had no choice, if the club had folded, they would not have got a penny in compensation.

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Has anyone actually read BTRFTG's post above?  Its a very accurate summary of what happened.  Though their departure played a part in City staying in existence, I'm afraid that the Ashton Gate weren't eight selfless, altruistic individuals who willingly sacrificed themselves for the good of the club.  They were unwittingly caught up in the middle of a situation that should have been avoided, and took a course of action which was probably the best for them at the time.  I'm very glad they did what they did, but to say that they were the ones that saved the club is simply wrong.  

I don't think anyone who sees the 8 as visionaries with a "dream to save our team" wants to hear the truth about what happened. There has not been one serious counter argument to the "alterative" view from a few of us on this thread who were obviously there at the time (not just as kids under the age of 10), but quite a lot of happy-clappy "we must name the stadium after the A8" nonsense.  I also get the impression that, as NTB alluded to, that many on here have had the story handed down to them, and don't want the facts to get in the way of their perception of this part of our history.

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New Dazzler

New Dazzler

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

This crops up every year and amazes me the difference between those who were there at the time so recall what happened and those younger who now lionize 8 'martyrs' who are nothing of the sort. I've previously referenced the excellent history of the PFA that covers our decline in detail, so worthy to recall the facts:

The 8 were never "forced" to sign away their contracts or livelihoods, they tore nothing up, they mutually agreed to terminate their contracts voluntarily and in doing so were given (gratis) their registrations to trade. The fact they struggled to find careers at other clubs says more of them than the club;

They didn't leave without compensation, the 8 shared circa £100k in compensation (a pretty sum in those days, not all of which was taxable.) In 1982 £12,500 would have gone a long way to buying a house in Bristol;

The 8 could have held onto their contracts and become creditors and left with nothing - they didn't. Sadly, quite a few local suppliers to the club did go unpaid and it's to them we owe a debt - they got now't but grief from some fans. Remember, too, the other City employees who were laid off without compensation, save of nobody does appreciate their nameless sacrifice;

The fact few of the 8 went on to have further careers in football had everything to do with the fact they were either past it, not very good or both (which beggars why they were on such long contracts in the first place?)

Several were vocal and highly critical of the club and remained so for years afterwards, blaming many of their future ills and mistakes on this one event. Contrast the spate of redundancies around Bristol at the time, many associated with the decline of the docks and supporting industries with few of those impacted, including many City supporters, receiving nowhere near such level of support from their employers. It was therefore no great surprise the 8's initial 'testimonial' wasn't that well supported.

What happened to the 8 was deeply regretable, as was the impact on local creditors and the decline of the club, but the world didn't stop turning. The club exists wholly because of the actions of a few clever directors who saw a way forward and executed their plan. It's to them, not the 8, we owe thanks each week.

 

 

 

This is as good a representation of the events at the time that I have seen on here, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head. 

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Red Moseley

Red Moseley

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Picked up a copy of this share issue booklet/pack with all the unfilled in application forms at a car boot last year for £2, what a bargain for a piece of our clubs history.  

My mother passed away in September 2018, aged 99, having been a lifelong City supporter. She first went in 1946, moved next door to the ground in Ashton Road in 1960 and continued attending until 2008 when it became too much for her to make it into the ground. She then acquired Sky so she could watch our occasional appearances (and her beloved Liverpool and Stevie Gerrard).

She started in the Main Stand Enclosure (where we saw the 1965 promotion game), moved to the Dolman Stand (where she saw the 1978 promotion game) and ended hr viewing days in the Williams Stand. I had left her before then to watch from the East End with my mates from Exeter United AFC.

The discussion of the Ashton Gate 8 reminded me that amongst her papers was a £10 Supporters' share, in BCFC (1982) PLC, issued on 5 May 1982. I am not even sure if it is still valid, let alone has any monetary or collector's value, or whether things have moved on and the formation of a new company invalidated it.

Anyone have any thoughts?

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CodeRed

CodeRed

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

When you become old enough to have lived through events which are now referred to as 'history' it's only natural you want it reported as you remember it from the time.

From that point of view I concur with the gist of the above.

That's not to say Sir Geoffrey, Jimmy Mann, Trevor Tainton, Gerry Sweeney, and Chris Garland (during 2 spells at the club) should not be forever remembered by the club and fans with gratitude as outstanding servants to BCFC - they truly were, and remain some of my all time City heroes.

David Rodgers is not a similar all time great imo, but he had a good City career and there was never a doubt that he gave his all for the club.

Aitken and Marshall barely featured for City by comparison, and I've always thought of Aitken as primarily a Rovers' man both before and after his short stint at AG.

The true heroes of the hour for BCFC afaic were, and always will be, Deryn Coller and Ken Sage, and they deserve far more recognition for everything they did to save the club.

This.   100%

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BTRFTG

BTRFTG

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Red Moseley said:

 

The discussion of the Ashton Gate 8 reminded me that amongst her papers was a £10 Supporters' share, in BCFC (1982) PLC, issued on 5 May 1982. I am not even sure if it is still valid, let alone has any monetary or collector's value, or whether things have moved on and the formation of a new company invalidated it.

Anyone have any thoughts?

SL bought the shares back the other month at face value.

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

Posted
Posted
On 04/02/2020 at 14:03, 054123 said:

I wouldn’t get to focused on the ‘38th’ but, the more relevant point is how this players are remembered or honored by the club. 

Dare I say it, but I’d like to think if I was billionaire Steve Lansdown, I would have thought a lot more about this situation and what could be done for those players today.

Not sure it's for SL to do anything about.

It kinda smacks of 'the city of Bristol apologising yet again for 'our' involvement with the slave trade'.

Quite agree that it is a barbaric  bit of history, but at what point can a current generation be left to reflect without needing to apologise or try and correct the mistakes of forefathers?

Same with 82, the players have had a couple of testimonials and they shared a lump sum of money (which they wouldn't have got had it not been for the new saviors) but businesses across the City were owed money and countless other people impacted.

So keep singing their names, remember how far we have come since 82 and be grateful for where we are now.

 

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bristolcitysweden

bristolcitysweden

Posted
Posted
On 04/02/2020 at 15:03, 054123 said:

I wouldn’t get to focused on the ‘38th’ but, the more relevant point is how this players are remembered or honored by the club. 

Dare I say it, but I’d like to think if I was billionaire Steve Lansdown, I would have thought a lot more about this situation and what could be done for those players today.

If I was a supporter with the wealth of SL I would pay the AG8 the debt in todays money value first thing in the morning

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SuperDziek

SuperDziek

Posted
Posted

Always interested to hear about this as I was barely 3 at the time and unfortunately my father and grandfather (both die hard City fans of course) have long since passed on to be able to have a conversation with them about this.

Of course, this great club thankfully continued after the 8 tore up their contracts.  Can anyone share any recollections of the next games after the club was saved, but also, the players that stepped into the shoes of the 8?  I'm presuming the likes of the Kelly brothers came straight in?  Did we have to pluck players from non-league to play?  I know about Martin Hirst and his winner at Eastville but from memory that was a couple of years later in 1984.  @CyderInACan will remember the scenes in our household when news of that came through on the wireless!

No doubt there has been threads about this before, but always fascinating to read fans accounts of what happened.

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bristolcitysweden

bristolcitysweden

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, phantom said:

I would say that is a big part of the problem. How the heck can anyone put a price on this?

I guess you can ask the fellows how much they were owned at the the time and calculate it to todays money value.

Precise amount or not SL would be recognized as one of us.

Edited by bristolcitysweden
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Red Exile

Red Exile

Posted
Posted
On 04/02/2020 at 09:23, BTRFTG said:

5 of the players once were great players for the club, but none of them were by 1982, their stars had faded fast. Rodgers I'd not include in that list partly because he could never replace the utter quality that was Gary Collier, but also as many recall his goal scoring exploits, save those often in his own net. Aitken and Marshall weren't great or good in 82 nor had ever been beforehand.

I wholly agree with your earlier assessment. Well put. Exactly as I recall it. Took some real guts from some very local businessmen to turn things around.

Btw I'd rank Julian Marshall as one of the poorest signings we ever made!

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054123

054123

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Not sure it's for SL to do anything about.

It kinda smacks of 'the city of Bristol apologising yet again for 'our' involvement with the slave trade'.

Quite agree that it is a barbaric  bit of history, but at what point can a current generation be left to reflect without needing to apologise or try and correct the mistakes of forefathers?

Same with 82, the players have had a couple of testimonials and they shared a lump sum of money (which they wouldn't have got had it not been for the new saviors) but businesses across the City were owed money and countless other people impacted.

So keep singing their names, remember how far we have come since 82 and be grateful for where we are now.

 

I know what I would do.

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The Constant Rabbit

The Constant Rabbit

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 04/02/2020 at 20:01, BTRFTG said:

This crops up every year and amazes me the difference between those who were there at the time so recall what happened and those younger who now lionize 8 'martyrs' who are nothing of the sort. I've previously referenced the excellent history of the PFA that covers our decline in detail, so worthy to recall the facts:

The 8 were never "forced" to sign away their contracts or livelihoods, they tore nothing up, they mutually agreed to terminate their contracts voluntarily and in doing so were given (gratis) their registrations to trade. The fact they struggled to find careers at other clubs says more of them than the club;

They didn't leave without compensation, the 8 shared circa £100k in compensation (a pretty sum in those days, not all of which was taxable.) In 1982 £12,500 would have gone a long way to buying a house in Bristol;

The 8 could have held onto their contracts and become creditors and left with nothing - they didn't. Sadly, quite a few local suppliers to the club did go unpaid and it's to them we owe a debt - they got now't but grief from some fans. Remember, too, the other City employees who were laid off without compensation, save of nobody does appreciate their nameless sacrifice;

The fact few of the 8 went on to have further careers in football had everything to do with the fact they were either past it, not very good or both (which beggars why they were on such long contracts in the first place?)

Several were vocal and highly critical of the club and remained so for years afterwards, blaming many of their future ills and mistakes on this one event. Contrast the spate of redundancies around Bristol at the time, many associated with the decline of the docks and supporting industries with few of those impacted, including many City supporters, receiving nowhere near such level of support from their employers. It was therefore no great surprise the 8's initial 'testimonial' wasn't that well supported.

What happened to the 8 was deeply regretable, as was the impact on local creditors and the decline of the club, but the world didn't stop turning. The club exists wholly because of the actions of a few clever directors who saw a way forward and executed their plan. It's to them, not the 8, we owe thanks each week.

 

 

 

You are of course absolutely correct in every word you write.

I think the term 'Ashton Gate 8' is perhaps an easier way to 'recall' those times than retelling the whole story to younger fans.

 6 of the 8 deserve full recognition due to their overall careers - and I include Dave 'the Duck' Rodgers in that 6. 

And if you were to ask them NOW I think they will all admit to be very uncomfortable about their status compared to the BOD at the time, and especially  Deryn Coller and Ken Sage.

Bristol Sport would not exist without the history of Bristol City Football Club to underpin it all - Bristol Rugby,Basketball, Womens Games, concerts, hotels and the new stadium would simply not ever have been considered if BCFC had gone under.

BS have a duty to recognise that fact, and when the Atyeo is refurbished (now Big John has his statue) I would very much like to see it named the '1982' stand, with a wall mural of the people involved inside, and the REAL story of the board proudly written up in a huge display in a place of prominence for all to see and respect.

 

So here's to: Deryn Coller, Ken Sage,Ivor Williams, Leslie Kew, David Russe, Bob Boyd, Bob Marshall, John Pontin, and Des Williams plus to a slightly lesser extent John Southern and Alan Williams.

 

Because without the desperate will of that board and associates - Bristol would be Blue - City wouldn't have lasted another 6 months in any shape or form as a tenant at Ashton Gate under Bristol Rovers Eastville Owners owners as Rovers would be the  main team. 

They would just have let us go under.

So the guys above closed the share-buying scheme, stopping Rovers grabbing AG for sod all, and basically paid for everything out of their own pockets. Found the £50,000 needed to keep us in the Football League.

They bought food for staff who weren't getting paid, washed kits, beg stole or borrowed money from family and friends to keep the club alive until it could stand on it's own very wobbly feet.

The 1982 stand is the least Bristol Sport could do, I reckon.

Edited by SX227
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BTRFTG

BTRFTG

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, SX227 said:

I would very much like to see it named the '1982' stand, with a wall mural of the people involved inside, and the REAL story of the board proudly written up in a huge display in a place of prominence for all to see and respect.

I second that excellent idea.

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