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reddoh

VAR

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1 minute ago, Maltshoveller said:

Both have one thing in common 

Goes in Man Utd favour 

Thought that might of ended with VAR

but still need to look after the big boys

Manchestvar United

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Jesz. Just saw the disallowed Chelsea goal. 

All that is wrong with VAR... the goal maybe justifiably VAR  disallowed but there was a push from behind on the Chelsea player first. So penalty.

Should have just given them the goal as the Ref did without all the faffing about. 

 

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4 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Once again VAR take away a good goal. How much tolerance is there with this line they draw. Someone was saying 30cm which if true is basically a players foot. 

The maximum margin for error depending on the speed the player is moving is up to 38 cm, which is over a foot, but that is someone running at full pelt, so likely to be less than that, but even so it cannot be claimed that it is consistent as the margin for error will be different for every decision so the supposed consistency is just not their for me. 

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Clear and obvious mistakes? That’s what VAR was introduced for ! Why are referees not looking at monitors like they did in World Cup. It is ruining our game 

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8 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Once again VAR take away a good goal. How much tolerance is there with this line they draw. Someone was saying 30cm which if true is basically a players foot. 

http://theifab.com/laws/chapter/38/section/113/

Clear and obvious error.

The Premier Leagues referees who are a limited company have their own interpretation of the laws that anything is offside if identified by VAR.

 

 

Edited by Cowshed

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Just seen the FAs explanation of why the headed goal was disallowed. 

Bizzare...the Man U push on Chelsea player was normal. The Chelsea on Man Utd not and prevented a clearing header. 

The trajectory of the ball was such that the Chelsea player was favourite to head it and, but for the push, he would have connected with a goal attempt you FA idiots. 

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I'd prefer to see the offside rule change to a clear gap between the attacker and defender (with the attacker goal side) when the ball is played, that would potentially see more goals scored.  But if the technology is good, it doesn't really matter where the offside point is, as long as its consistently applied.

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1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I'd prefer to see the offside rule change to a clear gap between the attacker and defender (with the attacker goal side) when the ball is played, that would potentially see more goals scored.  But if the technology is good, it doesn't really matter where the offside point is, as long as its consistently applied.

Which is being done? People don’t like it but it does appear to be consistent on offsides

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Var got both decisions right. I don't know what the problem was with the disallowed goals?? The first one was a clear push regardless of who was going to win the ball, the second was offside. No margins involved, onside or offside that's it.

 

The one they got wrong was that Maguire should have been sent off for the kick.

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1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

Which is being done? People don’t like it but it does appear to be consistent on offsides

Yes, I think it is, just my own thoughts on moving the point of calling it to a clear gap (need only be 1mm if that was measurable) between attacker and defender.

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1 minute ago, collier said:

Var got both decisions right. I don't know what the problem was with the disallowed goals?? The first one was a clear push regardless of who was going to win the ball, the second was offside. No margins involved, onside or offside that's it.

 

The one they got wrong was that Maguire should have been sent off for the kick.

Think problem is Zouma goal not allowed for Fred push was allowed which forced Chelsea player into Williams. Got to be same both ways not one push is ok and one isn’t.

Giroud goal ref and Lino gave it, you have a line with a margin of error guessing when ball is played saying no goal. Following IFAB laws goal shouldn’t be overturned. Just in this country the PGMOL are doing things there way.

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4 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Think problem is Zouma goal not allowed for Fred push was allowed which forced Chelsea player into Williams. Got to be same both ways not one push is ok and one isn’t.

Giroud goal ref and Lino gave it, you have a line with a margin of error guessing when ball is played saying no goal. Following IFAB laws goal shouldn’t be overturned. Just in this country the PGMOL are doing things there way.

So your telling me the little push by Fred(one that happens about 10 times at every corner in every game all over the country every week) was enough to send a fully grown man flying forward and having to put out 2 hands at full force to the Man U player who just so happened was about to challenge for the header??

Regardless of what laws are being followed to what degree in what country the player was offside. Now I will challenge any football fan to come on here and argue the exact same scenario if the goal was scored against their team. If your team scores the goal you want the goal, if it's the opposing team's goal you will agree it's offside. Neutral fans can easily sit and debate because in the grand scheme of thing's it's of no consequence to them IMO but he was offside. 

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4 minutes ago, collier said:

So your telling me the little push by Fred(one that happens about 10 times at every corner in every game all over the country every week) was enough to send a fully grown man flying forward and having to put out 2 hands at full force to the Man U player who just so happened was about to challenge for the header??

Regardless of what laws are being followed to what degree in what country the player was offside. Now I will challenge any football fan to come on here and argue the exact same scenario if the goal was scored against their team. If your team scores the goal you want the goal, if it's the opposing team's goal you will agree it's offside. Neutral fans can easily sit and debate because in the grand scheme of thing's it's of no consequence to them IMO but he was offside. 

From the camera behind the goal, it looked like a forearm push by Fred to the back of the Chelsea player. 

Pretty sure from my playing days concentrating on jumping for the ball, such a push would cause you to put two hands out in the way the Chelsea player did. So to me, if you’re going to disallow the goal, then a penalty should have been awarded. 

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3 minutes ago, collier said:

So your telling me the little push by Fred(one that happens about 10 times at every corner in every game all over the country every week) was enough to send a fully grown man flying forward and having to put out 2 hands at full force to the Man U player who just so happened was about to challenge for the header??

Regardless of what laws are being followed to what degree in what country the player was offside. Now I will challenge any football fan to come on here and argue the exact same scenario if the goal was scored against their team. If your team scores the goal you want the goal, if it's the opposing team's goal you will agree it's offside. Neutral fans can easily sit and debate because in the grand scheme of thing's it's of no consequence to them IMO but he was offside. 

IFAB say the Giroud goal shouldn’t be offside, only this country is using lines. The goal wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake. Ref and Lino gave it as a good goal, saw according to laws it’s a goal. 
 

Does it matter who pushes who, there is a push that sends another player into another. Once again we are down to a person sat in a cabin deciding one push is ok another isn’t. The 2nd push allegedly stopped the player heading the ball even though was nowhere near him and the player who is pushed first can’t get the ball but is guilty. 
 

if VAR is being used it has to be consistent, picking what they want out from set pieces. As you said pushes happen all the time but aren’t penalised only when a goal is scored. There was a spell of players being penalised for pushed pulls but that’s been forgotten again. VAR is being used so stringently by Stockley Park but no one has a clue from one game to the next what decisions are being given. If you are giving decisions on personal opinion then it’s not clear and obvious which isn’t following IFAB laws.

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1 hour ago, Maltshoveller said:

Both have one thing in common 

Goes in Man Utd favour 

Thought that might of ended with VAR

but still need to look after the big boys

Are Chelsea not big boys then?

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3 minutes ago, RedRock said:

From the camera behind the goal, it looked like a forearm push by Fred to the back of the Chelsea player. 

Pretty sure from my playing days concentrating on jumping for the ball, such a push would cause you to put two hands out in the way the Chelsea player did. So to me, if you’re going to disallow the goal, then a penalty should have been awarded. 

If I was watching an under 12 game I would be disappointed if a penalty was given for that. I am sure you agree that about 150 penalties a week across all the league's would be about right each week if that's one.

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53 minutes ago, TomF said:

Oh ffs that is just redic 

Agree. If you can't spontaneously celebrate a goal, what is the point of going to football?

They're killing our game.

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4 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

IFAB say the Giroud goal shouldn’t be offside, only this country is using lines

You just said it yourself, only this country is using lines. These lines have been used all season correct?? If so why would they be allowing this particular decision to stand but not any others across the course of the season?

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5 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Are Chelsea not big boys then?

Nah it's just more people hate Man U. If it was Watford v Chelsea nobody would care!!

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4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Are Chelsea not big boys then?

If you have been only watching football since RA took over chelsea then Yes

but if your an old git like me Chelsea are just a run of the mill club with dirty money and no class

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3 minutes ago, collier said:

You just said it yourself, only this country is using lines. These lines have been used all season correct?? If so why would they be allowing this particular decision to stand but not any others across the course of the season?

Why is this country using it, because the PGMOL are there own body and make there own decisions. They’ve even admitted it needs looking at but won’t admit they are wrong. Should be same rules/Laws across the world not what a group of refs decide in a room is right or wrong. Follow IFAB laws and everyone would be happy and accept decisions.

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11 minutes ago, collier said:

You just said it yourself, only this country is using lines. These lines have been used all season correct?? If so why would they be allowing this particular decision to stand but not any others across the course of the season?

We are the only country who don’t use monitors. Why, PGMOL want to run the show, let the ref ref the game and make decisions on a monitor. 

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6 minutes ago, collier said:

If I was watching an under 12 game I would be disappointed if a penalty was given for that. I am sure you agree that about 150 penalties a week across all the league's would be about right each week if that's one.

Well suppose it goes back to ‘clear and obvious’. 

Was it ‘clear and obvious’ that the thrust of the push was or wasn’t sufficient to award a penalty?  From the camera behind the goal it seems to be a very clever and forceful forearm in the back by Fred. From other angles it doesn’t look like an offence. 

So you have uncertainty over the initial push and uncertainty whether two hands on the back of the Man Utd player was a natural reaction to the initial push or a direct attempt to gain advantage. To add to that, doubts of whether the ‘fouled’ Man Utd player, unhindered, would have headed the ball... which was certainly less likely than the Chelsea player’s ability to head it given the ball’s trajectory. 

All in all, with masses of technology and camera angles there’s no definitive answer. So ‘clear and obvious’ it was not... leave to the on the field referee’s decision and award a goal. 

 

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As I started this confused with the result tonight Man red 2 chelsea 0 var 2 is that a draw?

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1 hour ago, Super said:

**** off Neville you biased *****.

I actually agree with what Neville said. 
The rules as they currently operate deem the giroud goal offside and I agree with him that the furore over the way var is adjudicating offsides is pointless. 
The rule says if a player is even a millimetre offside then it’s offside. Var has consistently adjudicated this. 
 

I 100% agree that it’s a ridiculous rule. But it’s being adjudicated consistently. And they’re not gonna change it half way through a season so it’s here til the end of this season and there will be more ‘toe/armpit’ decisions. 
 

I hate VAR. Never wanted, never called for it. 
But now it’s in, there’s only one way to get rid of it. 
Fans have to realise the power that they wield within the game. If no one attended the matches, citing VAR as the reason, it’ll soon be scrapped. If fans want rid of it, don’t go to the games. Sky will soon be very agitated by the fact they’re screening games with no fans, no atmosphere and no excitement. Fan power. The only way to change it. 

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what Neville said was wrong @harry. he does not mention that the Premier league refs think they are bigger than the rest of the world who follow what they are supposed to do. he says he does not get the argument but does not mention IFAB etc who have told the premier league the are wrong. the premier leagues refs now want there to be a margin of error of 10cm which still isn't what the rest of the follow. think about that nonsense 10.99cm you are off 9.99cm your on.

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9 hours ago, Harry said:

I actually agree with what Neville said. 
The rules as they currently operate deem the giroud goal offside and I agree with him that the furore over the way var is adjudicating offsides is pointless. 
The rule says if a player is even a millimetre offside then it’s offside. Var has consistently adjudicated this. 
 

I 100% agree that it’s a ridiculous rule. But it’s being adjudicated consistently. And they’re not gonna change it half way through a season so it’s here til the end of this season and there will be more ‘toe/armpit’ decisions. 

But the point is that the technology isn't accurate enough to determine if a player is offside by a millimetre, so there should be a margin of error on decisions. 

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I can not see any justification in not sending Maquire off. It was a diliberate kick into the goolies. Even after review by var it was so clear and obvious and yet the decision went for the mancs. Something never changes.

 

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Did you see the Malaga game at the weekend @elhombrecito

Malaga had a perfectly good goal ruled out for a ghost push but this was backed up by VAR. Justice was done though as Malaga were awarded a penalty by VAR. Great win away at the top of the league

Edited by Barry Sheene

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1 hour ago, Barry Sheene said:

Did you see the Malaga game at the weekend @elhombrecito

Malaga had a perfectly good goal ruled out for a ghost push but this was backed up by VAR. Justice was done though as Malaga were awarded a penalty by VAR. Great win away at the top of the league

I did yes. I'd actually forgotten about the disallowed goal in my delight at the victory. The handball one was strange as they played on for quite a bit afterwards - it was only when play was stopped for a foul that VAR communicated to the ref that there was a possible handball. Nice to see the ref go over to the monitor to check the decision himself too. 

Great result against the best team in the league. Only six points off the playoffs now too... :fear:

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12 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

Agree. If you can't spontaneously celebrate a goal, what is the point of going to football?

They're killing our game.

Totally agree. Surely the game is all about enjoyment for the paying public? Goals are what drives the enjoyment and VAR is taking away far more than it's giving back.

The offside should be your whole body (that it is legal to score with). Not a toe, or an armpit.

As for the Harry Maguire thing. The Son Heung-min red card shows that these decisions are subjective, and that's not what VAR should be used fro IMO.

Maybe the VAR sat in his caravan checks his bets before making a decision...?

 

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15 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

 what is the point of going to football?

 

Great question. 

Used to be something like (and then, is something like now):

1. To escape your humdrum existence, working down yer northern t'pit, or yer midlands factory. S'why we were/are never any good.

2. It was also, to "let off steam," by shouting "you're crap/shite" at your own winger (when losing) or their winger (when winning). Or at your own board of directors when things got really crap. Latterly, the manager/head coach cops this, but they have brought this on themselves to a certain extent by saying "I'm great, me, I've done me badges" etc. But that's another point / story.

3. In the 60s and 70s, the point of going to football was to kick someone's head in (simply another way to escape a humdrum existence and let off steam).

4. After Italia 90, the point was still to kick the other lots heads in but also to show yer feminine side by bursting into tears at any setback and to demonstrate your appreciation of Italian opera (can this be right?)

5. In the Premier League era, the point is to live vicariously off the "glamour" of the super star multi-millionaires and glorify the self by taking film and photos of the very, very famous multi-millionaire superstar celebrating a goal a few yards away by the corner flag, and then posting it on facebook or some such so everyone can see where you have been and what you have been up to.

6. To shout something vile at someone very, very famous, and very, very wealthy, in person (then to tweet about it).

7. Overall, though, it is mostly sad, disillusioned, overweight emotionally unintelligent, worryingly angry, drinking too much(white) blokes escaping their humdrum home lives and disappointing close interpersonal relationships (with wives, children, parents, siblings, themselves) for as long as they can possibly manage/get away with. It's why yer northern/London bloke loves football more than we do/we have such shite away support.

 

Well, you did ask, Blagdon...

Edited by Moments of Pleasure

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12 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

what Neville said was wrong @harry. he does not mention that the Premier league refs think they are bigger than the rest of the world who follow what they are supposed to do. he says he does not get the argument but does not mention IFAB etc who have told the premier league the are wrong. the premier leagues refs now want there to be a margin of error of 10cm which still isn't what the rest of the follow. think about that nonsense 10.99cm you are off 9.99cm your on.

But the point is that, whether rightly or wrongly, the ‘current’ rule is being applied consistently for offsides. 
I hate the piece of shit as much as anyone, but I don’t get the furore over it. We know it’s flawed and absurd, but they can’t do anything about it until next season. They can’t change it mid-season. 
 

As for the margin of error. It doesn’t matter. At some point there is an onside and an offside. At some point a line is drawn. 
You can have that as any part of the body, just the torso, a leg, the whole body, daylight, 10mm beyond daylight, it doesn’t matter. 
If the rule was daylight + 10mm, there’ll be uproar that someone was off because he was 10.1mm. 
 

The whole thing is nonsense. I said from day one that bringing it in for offsides was wrong as you don’t have an exact line of sight (like you do on goal line tech). 
But the point I was making also was that they won’t scrap it unless the fans don’t show up to games. 

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