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Massengo


Lez

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

He was very poor until he went to wing back which seemed to suit him more.

I thought Weimann was OK as wing back, but that might be because Birmingham sat very deep in the latter stages of the match. I think the issue is why, after all this time, has LJ decided that he’s a wing back?  He was bought to play as a central striker, then shunted out to the wing, recently played who knows where, and now wing back. I’m sure this illustrates LJ’s confused thinking when it comes to deciding on consistent formation / tactics to employ

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14 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

The kid has talent no doubt, but playing him in that position so attacking despite being an defensive midfielder is absolutely crazy. He needs a loan come next season, one of the better league one teams.

Frankly that says it all about our current malaise

He is WAY better than league one, he should be learning and improving in our midfield...

Sadly, we don't have one...

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I don't know what type of player he is, is he a ball winner, a ball player? Someone who carries the ball? His best early season form suggest he is similar to Korey in terms of has a lot of energy around the pitch, breaks up play and picks up a lot of fouls to get us out of difficult situations. But I haven't seen that in his game for a while.

Him and Smith are too similar in that sense and don't work in a partnership at home when you need to take the impetus, get your foot on the ball and actually making forward thinking passes. That doesn't seem to be their game.

 

 

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He’s strong on the ball,  great ability,  just hasn’t got to grips with the Championship as of yet.  Players that arrive from different cultures and leagues don’t always hit the ground running.  Sometimes it takes time to settle in. 
He is one for the future and now, just not starting ever game.  

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For a very long time our midfield was built on the Pack/Brownhill axis. Losing one of them weakened us - hence LJ’s remarks of a couple of months ago about needing some height and physicality in there - but losing the other half of the partnership now leaves a huge vacuum. Korey will work his socks off to try to compensate, as well as providing some seniority and leadership, but he can’t do it on his own and needs someone in there with him, which is presumably why Henriksen has been signed. We must hope he gets up to speed pretty quickly, having hardly played so far this season, because neither Nagy nor Massengo currently have the presence or authority to fill the boots of the pair we’ve sold. And that’s why people have been pointing out on other recent threads the inherent difficulty in the philosophy by which the club is run, which requires that we sell at regular intervals and leaves LJ doing the job, to repeat a much-quoted phrase, “with one hand tied behind his back “.

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12 hours ago, Totterdown's Finest said:

He rarely had any options in front of him.

That was the crux of the problem with the whole team. There was absolutely zero movement for anyone in possession. Zero options ahead means you dwell on the ball too long or have to go backwards. HNM did look a bit out of his depth last night but he was never helped by team mates lack of movement.

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35 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I do wonder who the couple of players LJ mentioned in his post match interview, as making him 'really angry' were? I can think of a couple or so myself...............Any thoughts?

Probably 2 of the 3 he took off. No sense saying that and leaving them on. Could have been one or two of the substitutes though. 
IMO Weinman, Massengo were abysmally poor with Nagy, Wells and Benkovic not much (if any) better when they came on so perhaps he was angry with them for not following his instructions.  

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12 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

I think he is indeed a very decent player and will go on to much bigger and better things...

Right now, we have simply dragged him down to our standard...

He looks over-coached to me. Early on he was playing with a lot more freedom and look better for it. 

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15 hours ago, Lez said:

Is not the answer when playing at home.

Holds on the ball far too long, neither effective defensively or going forward.

Honeymoon period is over, he was badly exposed today and offered very very little. I hope Henrickson gets up to speed quickly.

Massengo and Smith is not a CM partnership that will push us to promotion.....too negative, too lightweight, zero creativity, little physicality, zero goal threat.....teams crowd the midfield at the gate....that's what away teams do.....these 2 in a 2 is gena result on being dominated as was the case today.

Thought HNM was one of the few positives last night.  Massively let down by others around him last night.  He is a player who likes to pop short passes around.  What’s he meant to do when everyone runs away from him.  Eliasson stood out on the left wing   next to his RB marker, giving no option for a pass.  He never dragged his marker short to leave space in the gap for Diedhiou to run into.  He never dragged his marker deep to give room for Dasilva.  He just stood there, easily marked.  Paterson rarely came back into the midfield for give and goes.  22 touches all game, 18 only v QPR....against a more fluid 33 in 77 minutes v Reading where he came short, and helped out midfield play.  I hope the last couple of games aren’t a revert to type where we see inconsistency.

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7 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

That was the crux of the problem with the whole team. There was absolutely zero movement for anyone in possession. Zero options ahead means you dwell on the ball too long or have to go backwards. HNM did look a bit out of his depth last night but he was never helped by team mates lack of movement.

 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Thought HNM was one of the few positives last night.  Massively let down by others around him last night.  He is a player who likes to pop short passes around.  What’s he meant to do when everyone runs away from him.  Eliasson stood out on the left wing   next to his RB marker, giving no option for a pass.  He never dragged his marker short to leave space in the gap for Diedhiou to run into.  He never dragged his marker deep to give room for Dasilva.  He just stood there, easily marked.  Paterson rarely came back into the midfield for give and goes.  22 touches all game, 18 only v QPR....against a more fluid 33 in 77 minutes v Reading where he came short, and helped out midfield play.  I hope the last couple of games aren’t a revert to type where we see inconsistency.

I didn`t think he did too badly under the circumstances - he seemed to be able to hold his opponent off a few times and didn`t get bullied as much as some others.

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HNM's position is the same as Korey Smith so with Korey playing regularly he's been pushed further forward, He's doing his best but as others have said there's no movement from our forwards at home games so there's nobody to pass to, I still think he's remarkable for his age and will be a star in the future for sure. If we get Afobe back it will make his job easier.

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21 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

I don't know what type of player he is, is he a ball winner, a ball player? Someone who carries the ball? His best early season form suggest he is similar to Korey in terms of has a lot of energy around the pitch, breaks up play and picks up a lot of fouls to get us out of difficult situations. But I haven't seen that in his game for a while.

Him and Smith are too similar in that sense and don't work in a partnership at home when you need to take the impetus, get your foot on the ball and actually making forward thinking passes. That doesn't seem to be their game.

 

 

There was a lack of movement in front. To many players standing by their markers. Forward players all in a line. 

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It's no use doubting the ability of Nagy and Massengo because we've already seen evidence of their talents. 

There has been a decline in their performance levels though, and that's more difficult to put a finger on. Nagy likely related to his injury issue. Massengo is young and learning, perhaps facing new pressures etc.

But they're quality players at this level at their best. Morrell, Walsh and Bakinson have the potential to be that too.

LJ has the challenge of getting the best out of them.

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On 07/02/2020 at 22:07, Lez said:

Is not the answer when playing at home.

Holds on the ball far too long, neither effective defensively or going forward.

Honeymoon period is over, he was badly exposed today and offered very very little. I hope Henrickson gets up to speed quickly.

Massengo and Smith is not a CM partnership that will push us to promotion.....too negative, too lightweight, zero creativity, little physicality, zero goal threat.....teams crowd the midfield at the gate....that's what away teams do.....these 2 in a 2 is gena result on being dominated as was the case today.

Funny, I see it differently. Massengo is too good for this mediocre side. He is quick thinking and creative with a repertoire of intelligent passing that others don’t read. He plays reverse balls and threaded balls that mystify the slow of thinking like Korey Smith who is much more limited. Without intelligent movement it nullifies the likes of Massengo and Palmer who thrive on targets for their passing. I watched the game last night and apart from thinking that the Blues simply outplayed us and looked more like a top six prospect, I lost count of the times our midfield broke free, looked forward and spun out again because of the lack of options. When did you see the great Spanish midfield constantly turning out to go back and sideways. Good movement begins as a state of mind and is a great skill/aptitude in the game. 

To link with another somewhat sad thread. The wonderful Chris Garland had great movement and intuitive timing. God bless him

 

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3 hours ago, mozo said:

I'd actually like to see Massengo snapping at Rooney's heels to cut out the danger from the source. 

What? When did you see Glen Hoddle  snapping at the heels of anyone?

when did you see Pirlo scalping at the heels of anyone?

You are thinking of the water-carriers. Ze seagulls that follow ze trawler

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Tell you what

Lets ignore the rest of the Battalion size experienced squad, the head coach , the training staff.....

Lets blame all our ills on an 18 year old , abroad and in his first season as a  first team footballer 

 

Courtesy of Marlon Jackson and his relatives....

 

Don’t blame it on Lee Johnson

Dont blame it on the Coaches

Dont blame his older teammates

......Blame it on Massengo’

 

 

 

Oh. ...ok then.........Bentleys shit.......Weimanns shit......

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I think he’s probably better playing in a 3 really. Centre midfield is the most demanding position in football in my opinion, to play there in England at his age is a huge achievement so needs to be cut a bit of slack.

In my opinion he needs to be in a midfield 3 alongside someone more defensive (Smith/Nagy) and someone more offensive who takes the initiative (hopefully Henriksen). On Friday he looked a bit apprehensive at times but that was also down to a lack of movement in front of him and Birmingham’s shape.

Playing in a 3 will give him more confidence to keep the ball moving, which I think is his strength. He’s not the guy to criticise though, this season has been a huge learning curve for him and he’s been fantastic.

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20 hours ago, Jefferz said:

Funny, I see it differently. Massengo is too good for this mediocre side. He is quick thinking and creative with a repertoire of intelligent passing that others don’t read. He plays reverse balls and threaded balls that mystify the slow of thinking like Korey Smith who is much more limited. Without intelligent movement it nullifies the likes of Massengo and Palmer who thrive on targets for their passing. I watched the game last night and apart from thinking that the Blues simply outplayed us and looked more like a top six prospect, I lost count of the times our midfield broke free, looked forward and spun out again because of the lack of options. When did you see the great Spanish midfield constantly turning out to go back and sideways. Good movement begins as a state of mind and is a great skill/aptitude in the game. 

To link with another somewhat sad thread. The wonderful Chris Garland had great movement and intuitive timing. God bless him

 

Unfortunately being good at that one aspect of the game which looks good on the eye does not make him better than everyone else. He has some of the lowest defensive metrics per 90 in the team and practically no attacking impetus whatsoever. In short, out of all our players at the moment, he is the biggest passenger. 

Been slated on numerous times before for suggesting that he needs a loan, including last week on the Loan watch thread. Yet it seems pretty obvious to me that if our midfielder, playing in a midfield 2, is offering nothing going forward or nothing defensively, we probably need to loan him out to improve like we have with Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh.

Keeping him in there purely because he comes from Monaco is picking players just on reputation. I do wonder what damage it has done to his confidence. Over the Christmas period he looked afraid of the ball. Matches against Millwall and Blackburn completely typified this, where he was completely bullied. He hasn't seemed to have overcame this, and realistically LJ should now put Henriksen in and keep working on Massengo in training until he is ready, ideally for a 6 month loan next year.

Do not take what I am saying out of context either, as some seem to when I have criticised before. Massengo is the best talent we have in the squad, with the highest ceiling. But he is only an 18 year old boy, and needs to have the proper steps of development, like Bryan, Reid and now Morrell and Walsh are taking. Just because of the circumstance in which he was signed does not need make him a nailed on starter, and he should be the first to acknowledge that his performances haven't quite been good enough and that he is still young enough to take 6 months to drop a level for the good of his long-term development.  

Signing a player for £3mill and sending him out on loan is not a sign of poor management, it is a sign of how far the developments in our club structure have allowed us to come. 

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