Lee had offers.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

is that the latest line?!

LJ's 40% win record across over 200 games in the Championship is down to luck?

You're coming across as very bitter.

FWIW (In response to others that have wondered) I reckon the two clubs that have shown interest in LJ since he has been at City are Villa and West Brom. That should melt a few brains...

Stoke? Isn't it a couple of members of their board who are fans of LJ? Hughes left Jan 18 right at LJ's peak, Lambert only stayed till the summer before they went Rowett and then Jan last year for Rowett leaving, think I remember his odds got fairly short at least one of the times, not a guarantee of course though as it could have just been people lumping on

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Cotts did a very good job in getting us up. We had the budget to compete for automatics. He delivered. And played attacking football. All great stuff.

Championship? It was a disaster. He had to go imo.

It seems many clubs would take LJ at our level whenever in need of a new manager. None seem to want Cotts. That speaks volumes imo.

Who has actually come in for johnson ? No one as far as i know the reason cotts has not got another job someone stated he had his hands in the till unfortunatrly.

[NickJ]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Absolutely remarkable thread!!

What it shows though Will is that the manager is not popular, for a variety of reasons seemingly related to his personal characteristics which have been referenced on here. 

I would suggest that if we were on the fringe of the playoffs under any other manager that manager would not be receiving anywhere near the same level of criticism, and and would also suggest therefore that we might be better off with a different manager that all fans could unite behind. 

[NickJ]

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

2004-07 to be precise. Quite a long time ago.

Hasn't been in work for two years now, since a poor spell at Brum where he had a 25% win ratio.

Interestingly, Cotterill managed 161 times at Burnley with a 34% win ratio.

Johnson has managed City 207 times with a win ratio of 40%.

Big difference behind the stats though Will. 
 

Cotterill had to sell at Burnley to balance the books and didn’t get that money back for other players.

Johnson inherited a valuable squad which he has sold and been given all of those funds and more to invest in his players.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, NickJ said:

What it shows though Will is that the manager is not popular, for a variety of reasons seemingly related to his personal characteristics which have been referenced on here. 

I would suggest that if we were on the fringe of the playoffs under any other manager that manager would not be receiving anywhere near the same level of criticism, and and would also suggest therefore that we might be better off with a different manager that all fans could unite behind. 

On OSIB the other week they said LJ isn’t likeable.  I think they went a bit further in fact.

For me he has things I really like, and he has others I don’t / frustrate the hell out of me. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

On OSIB the other week they said LJ isn’t likeable.  I think they went a bit further in fact.

For me he has things I really like, and he has others I don’t / frustrate the hell out of me. 

 

We hear lots about the things people dislike or find frustrating about LJ.. what are the things you like?

[Fordy62]

32 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

We hear lots about the things people dislike or find frustrating about LJ.. what are the things you like?

I like that he knows how to instruct a team to play the best football I’ve ever seen City play. 
 

I hate that he’s forgotten.  

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

We hear lots about the things people dislike or find frustrating about LJ.. what are the things you like?

Bright, insightful, enthusiastic, loves his job. 

[Alessandro]

It is a hugely sweeping statement to say LJ is unpopular.

Tell that to the 2000 away fans who sing his name after away wins.

And despite some frustrating home performances the majority of fans are behind him. 

Do people have doubts about his ability to get us promoted? Of course, yes. But the vast majority are also able to see the positives and having doubts is very different to not ‘liking’ LJ. 

Yet still remain, on OTIB of course (always historically the vocal minority) that have the same things in common - they’re still bitter about SC, they didn’t want LJ from the very beginning, have been vitriolic in their criticism at any opportunity over the last 4 years, are so angry they can rarely even bring themselves to admit the positives so slink away when things are good, only to return with the same repeated ‘I told you so’s’ for the last 4 years - all backed up by comments on this thread and the regular others that frankly often border on the irrational.

[Red Exile]

6 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It is a hugely sweeping statement to say LJ is unpopular.

Tell that to the 2000 away fans who sing his name after away wins.

And despite some frustrating home performances the majority of fans are behind him. 

Do people have doubts about his ability to get us promoted? Of course, yes. But the vast majority are also able to see the positives and having doubts is very different to not ‘liking’ LJ. 

Yet still remain, on OTIB of course (always historically the vocal minority) that have the same things in common - they’re still bitter about SC, they didn’t want LJ from the very beginning, have been vitriolic in their criticism at any opportunity over the last 4 years, are so angry they can rarely even bring themselves to admit the positives so slink away when things are good, only to return with the same repeated ‘I told you so’s’ for the last 4 years - all backed up by comments on this thread and the regular others that frankly often border on the irrational.

I agree that it is a hugely sweeping statement to say that LJ is unpopular. But in fairness you make a whole bunch of other hugely sweeping statements in this post!

[Alessandro]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I agree that it is a hugely sweeping statement to say that LJ is unpopular. But in fairness you make a whole bunch of other hugely sweeping statements in this post!

Like?

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Like?

The final paragraph! You must know that to be an LJ sceptic you don’t have to hold all of those opinions. I hold none of them. And I go to away matches and don’t sing his name. 

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

The final paragraph! You must know that to be an LJ sceptic you don’t have to hold all of those opinions. I hold none of them. And I go to away matches and don’t sing his name. 

Well, absolutely - which is why I wrote “the vocal minority” in the last paragraph and also wrote in the post “Do people have doubts about his ability to get us promoted? Of course, yes“

 

[Alessandro]

8 minutes ago, One man went.... said:

The Bounce song was for his father.. It is just a good song but not a show of affection for mini me.

I rest my case....you lose all credibility when you say stuff like that. 
 

It’s personal, it’s emotional and frankly irrational that someone would come on a football forum and call him that. 
 

It’s odd at best, IMO

[Natchfever]

13 hours ago, hodge said:

What about the statement made it sound like the offer was in the last month? It just sounded like in his time here, its really not that hard to think 17/18 just after we'd had the semi final games that some big champ/lower prem clubs may have been willing to give him a job

After those games against the Manchester clubs I could imagine interest although again, no evidence.

I could quite easily have seen Pep offer LJ a role in his coaching staff, but I really don't think our head coach would accept anything other than being a head coach even if under the tutelage of the great man.

That's just me guessing, like everyone else who says its "likely true" he has had offers just because he said so.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I like that he knows how to instruct a team to play the best football I’ve ever seen City play. 
 

I hate that he’s forgotten.  

 

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bright, insightful, enthusiastic, loves his job. 

Thanks for the replies, it was of course a bit of a loaded question and it’s interesting because both replies are faint praise which is what I was testing.

The qualities you’d mention Dave are ones you’d hope any manager would have - irrelevant of results but I agree with what you say. I do like his enthusiasm - even if it causes him problems sometimes.

Obviously you’re both entitled to your opinions so I’m not trying to criticise either of you 

[Nogbad the Bad]

34 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I rest my case....you lose all credibility when you say stuff like that. 
 

It’s personal, it’s emotional and frankly irrational that someone would come on a football forum and call him that. 
 

It’s odd at best, IMO

Bit over the top. Were you similarly infuriated with LJ when he recently referred to DaSilva and Hunt as being from 'the land of the Hobbits'?

Has he lost all credibility with you because of it or was it mildly amusing and completely inconsequential?

[RobintheRed Red]

On 08/02/2020 at 09:02, Portland Bill said:

If he had coached a group of players over those last 4 years and built a team and playing philosophy, then I would give him the credit. But no, he has been given everything on a plate, signed 50? players and spent more money than any other City manager. SL has given him everything he has asked, but tactically he is unable to compete against other managers, even though he has players these other managers would love to have.

On a personal level, I find him arrogant and embarrassing, some of the stuff he says goes right through me, and the way he blames everyone else for his own inability is excruciating. 

 

Spot on mate

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Bit over the top. Were you similarly infuriated with LJ when he recently referred to DaSilva and Hunt as being from 'the land of the Hobbits'?

Has he lost all credibility with you because of it or was it mildly amusing and completely inconsequential?

LJ doesn't use it as a means to insult the person involved though 

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Bit over the top. Were you similarly infuriated with LJ when he recently referred to DaSilva and Hunt as being from 'the land of the Hobbits'?

Has he lost all credibility with you because of it or was it mildly amusing and completely inconsequential?

How do you know he's 'infuriated' by it? That's an over the top phrase to use! 

[Natchfever]

20 minutes ago, hodge said:

LJ doesn't use it as a means to insult the person involved though 

How would you know that ?

Genuine question, but just because he's smiling when he says it and is a shortarse himself doesn't make it any better.

I don't subscribe the midget calling club incidentally.

[Alessandro]

14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Bit over the top. Were you similarly infuriated with LJ when he recently referred to DaSilva and Hunt as being from 'the land of the Hobbits'?

Has he lost all credibility with you because of it or was it mildly amusing and completely inconsequential?

No, that was not me.

But I remember the interview and the biggest takeaway for me was that LJ said he’d brought in two taller players and then proceeded not to play them against the team who score the most from set pieces in the division....

Regarding the comment - well it’s always context, one was used to illustrate a point, the other simply to be derogatory.

Inconsequential? Maybe, but enough inconsequentials eventually make a consequential. IMO.

[Nogbad the Bad]

6 minutes ago, hodge said:

LJ doesn't use it as a means to insult the person involved though 

Seems to me LJ has made it obvious he has a sense of humour about height such that he can not only take comments about it but dish them out too.

So he would not be 'insulted' by @One man went....'s comment.

A healthy attitude it seems to me, and when he publicly calls 2 of his players Hobbits there's certainly no reason for other more sensitive souls to take umbrage on his behalf.

 

[Alessandro]

Well I guess us poor sensitive souls from the snowflake generation better go have a reassess of our ‘humour’ levels.

[Nogbad the Bad]

21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

How do you know he's 'infuriated' by it? That's an over the top phrase to use! 

It's words on a forum so no way of being certain, but the choice of words and phrases as well as the need to make the point strongly in the first place led me to believe the comment was made with a measure of indignation.

That indignation about 1 word was seemingly used as a good enough reason to dismiss all and any views of the other poster, so imo. it's very likely Alessandro was indeed on the point of being infuriated at the time of replying.

@Alessandro were you infuriated by @One man went....'s comment, or did your reply just make it appear that way, and in fact you were just mildly offended on LJ's behalf?

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's words on a forum so no way of being certain, but the choice of words and phrases as well as the need to make the point strongly in the first place led me to believe the comment was made with a measure of indignation.

That indignation about 1 word was seemingly used as a good enough reason to dismiss all and any views of the other poster, so imo. it's very likely Alessandro was indeed on the point of being infuriated at the time of replying.

@Alessandro were you infuriated by @One man went....'s comment, or did your reply just make it appear that way, and in fact you were just mildly offended on LJ's behalf?

I think we've discussed this before, but the way I view it is that some people do try and use LJ's height to undermine him as a leader.

It's leadership theory, there's an understanding that taller and more imposing men are perceived as having better leadership potential. You get phrases like 'short man syndrome', 'Napoleon complex' etc and there's plenty of studies on it. 

I doubt people on this forum get upset by it on Johnson's behalf, just see it as a bit of a cheap shot if that's why people often refer to his height in a way that is done to undermine. 

I think the context of that 'land of the hobbits' remark is important as he clearly knows those players and isn't going to try and undermine them based on their height.. especially when he's a short man himself! 

 

[Alessandro]

41 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's words on a forum so no way of being certain, but the choice of words and phrases as well as the need to make the point strongly in the first place led me to believe the comment was made with a measure of indignation.

That indignation about 1 word was seemingly used as a good enough reason to dismiss all and any views of the other poster, so imo. it's very likely Alessandro was indeed on the point of being infuriated at the time of replying.

@Alessandro were you infuriated by @One man went....'s comment, or did your reply just make it appear that way, and in fact you were just mildly offended on LJ's behalf?

I've replied to one man's mini me comment once, and there was nothing in that one reply that showed indignation or infuriation. I would say that's quite a stretch by you to read that into my post, perhaps you're being a little sensitive, or are you just mildly offended on his behalf that I might dismiss his opinions?

If the level of someone's debate is to name call, then i'm not bothering. Hence why, which also proves my complete lack of indignation or fury, i've not engaged him again. If you read the original post, what I actually say is he loses all credibility, so again you're putting words in my mouth by saying I dismiss all and any views he has. 

Back to the LJ comment - as i've said already, it is about context, one is banter in a press conference another is a pointless derogatory term not said in a banterous way. 

Either way, i'm not defending LJ. I'm sure he can do that himself. I'm simply defending a) who i'm going to bother debating with and b) what I believe is to be a civil human being. Be that calling LJ mini me on OTIB or some celeb being called a fat pig on twitter. 

And ultimately, all i've said is, in one post to one poster, if that's the level of your debate, i'm not bothering. You've picked it up and run with it. You're talking like i've just started a thread about how everyone should stop calling LJ names.

[Natchfever]

46 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think we've discussed this before, but the way I view it is that some people do try and use LJ's height to undermine him as a leader.

It's leadership theory, there's an understanding that taller and more imposing men are perceived as having better leadership potential. You get phrases like 'short man syndrome', 'Napoleon complex' etc and there's plenty of studies on it. 

I doubt people on this forum get upset by it on Johnson's behalf, just see it as a bit of a cheap shot if that's why people often refer to his height in a way that is done to undermine. 

I think the context of that 'land of the hobbits' remark is important as he clearly knows those players and isn't going to try and undermine them based on their height.. especially when he's a short man himself! 

 

He's also an ex player and yet doesn't mind publicly undermining the performances of his own selection does he.

Storm in a teacup. I think he says whatever he wants because he's the boss, and being the boss I doubt he confers with his staff on how they take such comments, which aren't so far as i'm aware, breaking any laws.

[Bristol Oil Services]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

....and that’s his development gap.  Sod the NHS, Red Arrows, Commandos....perhaps spend the summer playing second fiddle to someone.  Put himself in Deano and Macca’s shoes.  Perhaps ask Gareth if he can help with the Euros?

No, not this.

Go and live in a bothy in the Hebrides all summer (leaving Ashton to man the phones and bring in the new recruits) or go for a walk in the Carpathian mountains, alone, and, er, come back with a story about fighting off a pack of wolves bare handed, a real backs-to-the-tree tale of fearless, manly, burr grills daring-do, and we won't scoff or not believe him, honest.

Then he'll be ready for this sharp-end, white-heat, calm-in-a-storm big-boy promotion race getting-over-the-line thingy...

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

He's also an ex player and yet doesn't mind publicly undermining the performances of his own selection does he.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of him doing that. Felt really uncomfortable with comments he's made - the ones that stick out for me were Taylor Moore vs Ipswich and a few times with Magnússon. 

8 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Storm in a teacup. I think he says whatever he wants because he's the boss, and being the boss I doubt he confers with his staff on how they take such comments, which aren't so far as i'm aware, breaking any laws.

I don't think anyone sees it as a big deal really, just an interesting talking point.