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Lee had offers.


glen humphries

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3 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Fact is we were falling when he was part of the team, we just got overtaken by teams who had momentum at the right time.

About 1.4 points per game from window closing to his injury 1 point per game the final four.

Apply 1.4 points to those final four games we still would have finished outside the top 2.

Manipulate it all you want to suit your argument. It does not change the fact, we were top with him in the team and when he got injured we fell away.

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12 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Manipulate it all you want to suit your argument. It does not change the fact, we were top with him in the team and when he got injured we fell away.

I think it definitely was a factor as to why we fell away.

I believe we didn't strengthen in January as much as we should have. Adebola was a good player in his own right, but it would be a bit like using this January to sign Nuhiu or someone instead of Wells. We needed someone quick and clinical back then too.

I think we might have run out of steam to remain top 2 throughout the season, saying that we did raise our game again in the playoffs - such was the mentality of the squad.

In that squad Lee Johnson was an important part. Not the most exciting player, but kept possession ticking over and allowed the more exciting players do express themselves.

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think it definitely was a factor as to why we fell away.

I believe we didn't strengthen in January as much as we should have. Adebola was a good player in his own right, but it would be a bit like using this January to sign Nuhiu or someone instead of Wells. We needed someone quick and clinical back then too.

I think we might have run out of steam to remain top 2 throughout the season, saying that we did raise our game again in the playoffs - such was the mentality of the squad.

In that squad Lee Johnson was an important part. Not the most exciting player, but kept possession ticking over and allowed the more exciting players do express themselves.

Indeed. He took the ball off our defenders like Jamie McCombe. And got our play going.

When he wasnt in the side, McCombe used to just lump the ball aimlessly. He did that alot less with LJ in the team.

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1 minute ago, Riaz said:

Manipulate it all you want to suit your argument. It does not change the fact, we were top with him in the team and when he got injured we fell away.

Right back at ya.

No manipiuations of figures they are a matter of record. Our form from February was at best ordinary with or without Johnson in the team.

I will give you that at kick off on the day he was injured we were top but not at 4.45, and I had no confidence we would stay there regardless of any injuries did you ?

Basso, Orr (so it proved),Elliot McIndoe, injuries to them at the death would have been a cause but not Johnson in my honest opinion.

You must remember that Johnson senior (or his boss) didn't strengthen adequately in January and that squad limped into the playoffs because of it.

Agree to disagree Riaz, its a forum after all.

 

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44 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

You must remember that ******* (insert any recent managers name) didn't strengthen adequately in January and that squad limped into the playoffs because of it.

Amazing how many years this sentiment could apply to prior to this January 

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2 hours ago, Natchfever said:

Right back at ya.

No manipiuations of figures they are a matter of record. Our form from February was at best ordinary with or without Johnson in the team.

I will give you that at kick off on the day he was injured we were top but not at 4.45, and I had no confidence we would stay there regardless of any injuries did you ?

Basso, Orr (so it proved),Elliot McIndoe, injuries to them at the death would have been a cause but not Johnson in my honest opinion.

You must remember that Johnson senior (or his boss) didn't strengthen adequately in January and that squad limped into the playoffs because of it.

Agree to disagree Riaz, its a forum after all.

 

I watched one game live that season, a night game at home to Watford.  Wasn’t that the game LJ got injured?  Basso saved a pen 0-0???

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I watched one game live that season, a night game at home to Watford.  Wasn’t that the game LJ got injured?  Basso saved a pen 0-0???

Yep. LJ was a great loss, in my opinion. I liked him as a player almost as much as I doubt him as a manager!

But Basso...we have one of the boots he wore at the play-off final - what a hero!

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19 hours ago, NickJ said:

What it shows though Will is that the manager is not popular, for a variety of reasons seemingly related to his personal characteristics which have been referenced on here. 

I would suggest that if we were on the fringe of the playoffs under any other manager that manager would not be receiving anywhere near the same level of criticism, and and would also suggest therefore that we might be better off with a different manager that all fans could unite behind. 

LJ is no less popular based on personal characteristics than other City managers including Cotterill and SOD, in my opinion. I can't recall any manager City fans have universally loved in my time supporting the club. They've all had their moments but it's never lasted and there's always been a significant, albeit overall minority of fans, that get sick of their personalities and what they say in interviews week in, week out. 

I'd be interested to hear some examples of managers you think that City fans would be universally behind if we were in the same position with the same home record. Scott Murray is probably the only one thst may come close! 

My point regarding this thread wasn't necessarily to do with people's opinion of the bloke, it was more to do with people's assumptions that he is viewed poorly by "the football world". Some posters on here have taken their opinions of LJ and have such a high view of their own opinion that they actually think everyone else in "the football world" thinks he's a "fraud", "been found out", "won't get another job anywhere", "no club higher up would possibly have been interested in him". 

Aside from the obvious point that they couldn't possibly know this, there is enough evidence to suggest that LJ is held in higher regard in English football than some of our own fans seem willing to admit. 

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4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

there is enough evidence to suggest that LJ is held in higher regard in English football than some of our own fans seem willing to admit. 

Correct. Johnson’s CV shows year on year improvement despite losing best players AND turning a profit........

He would walk into another job

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5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

LJ is no less popular based on personal characteristics than other City managers including Cotterill and SOD, in my opinion. I can't recall any manager City fans have universally loved in my time supporting the club. They've all had their moments but it's never lasted and there's always been a significant, albeit overall minority of fans, that get sick of their personalities and what they say in interviews week in, week out. 

I'd be interested to hear some examples of managers you think that City fans would be universally behind if we were in the same position with the same home record. Scott Murray is probably the only one thst may come close! 

My point regarding this thread wasn't necessarily to do with people's opinion of the bloke, it was more to do with people's assumptions that he is viewed poorly by "the football world". Some posters on here have taken their opinions of LJ and have such a high view of their own opinion that they actually think everyone else in "the football world" thinks he's a "fraud", "been found out", "won't get another job anywhere", "no club higher up would possibly have been interested in him". 

Aside from the obvious point that they couldn't possibly know this, there is enough evidence to suggest that LJ is held in higher regard in English football than some of our own fans seem willing to admit. 

I'd say that Terry Cooper and Joe Jordan had the fans on side for the vast majority, if not the entirety of their tenure.

Football giants of course compared to any of those who have followed them...so not intended as a dig at LJ.

Whilst he has his strengths, to my, admittedly limited but very well placed, knowledge, LJ's weaknesses are also known in the football world. 

 

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8 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Correct. Johnson’s CV shows year on year improvement despite losing best players AND turning a profit........

He would walk into another job

I being facetious, but when you say profit, the club has lost £20.9m in LJ’s reign (club accounts 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19)...and its likely to be at least another loss this season despite Webster, Brownhill and Pack sales.

If you mean net spend, I suspect you are right, but it’s very difficult to know the exact amount when so many fees are “undisclosed”.

Re walking into another job.  What level?  Prem, top Champ, mid-table Champ?  Not saying you’re wrong, just that we don’t know that do we?  If Prem, which team(s) do you reckon?

 

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I being facetious, but when you say profit, the club has lost £20.9m in LJ’s reign (club accounts 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19)...and its likely to be at least another loss this season despite Webster, Brownhill and Pack sales.

If you mean net spend, I suspect you are right, but it’s very difficult to know the exact amount when so many fees are “undisclosed”.

Re walking into another job.  What level?  Prem, top Champ, mid-table Champ?  Not saying you’re wrong, just that we don’t know that do we?  If Prem, which team(s) do you reckon?

 

It's an interesting question 

Looking at this league, in a theoretical scenario where Johnson is available right now (based on his current record) and any of these clubs were managerless.. I think he could realistically be on a shortlist of 5 for most of these. 'Wild speculation' but I think aside from WBA, Leeds, Fulham, everyone else would potentially be interested. Perhaps Derby and Boro wouldn't as they tend to go for higher profile managers.

Outside of that, I don't see why he wouldn't be a realistic candidate for anyone else.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I being facetious, but when you say profit, the club has lost £20.9m in LJ’s reign (club accounts 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19)...and its likely to be at least another loss this season despite Webster, Brownhill and Pack sales.

If you mean net spend, I suspect you are right, but it’s very difficult to know the exact amount when so many fees are “undisclosed”.

Re walking into another job.  What level?  Prem, top Champ, mid-table Champ?  Not saying you’re wrong, just that we don’t know that do we?  If Prem, which team(s) do you reckon?

 

Walking into another job, sounds like Rovers to me, Dave. Or Manor Farm. Bath City at a push.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's an interesting question 

Looking at this league, in a theoretical scenario where Johnson is available right now (based on his current record) and any of these clubs were managerless.. I think he could realistically be on a shortlist of 5 for most of these. 'Wild speculation' but I think aside from WBA, Leeds, Fulham, everyone else would potentially be interested. Perhaps Derby and Boro too as they tend to go for higher profile managers.

Outside of that, I don't see why he wouldn't be a realistic candidate for anyone else.

image.thumb.png.64ec77bf492a7d058a42d255bc555886.png

Oh, definitely at Champ level, he would be on lots of lists.

Was thinking who in the Premier?

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Oh, definitely at Champ level, he would be on lots of lists.

Was thinking who in the Premier?

Hmm, realistically I don't think any Prem clubs would consider him right now at this stage of the season. Potentially if they were coming down into this league, someone like Bournemouth, Watford or maybe Brighton would. I don't think any other teams at a guess.

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16 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'd say that Terry Cooper and Joe Jordan had the fans on side for the vast majority, if not the entirety of their tenure.

Football giants of course compared to any of those who have followed them...so not intended as a dig at LJ.

Whilst he has his strengths, to my, admittedly limited but very well placed, knowledge, LJ's weaknesses are also known in the football world.

Thanks re: Cooper and Jordan, both before my time. Demonstrates the examples are scarce. 

Of course his weaknesses will be known, however that's not what I was suggesting. I was stating that some of our fans that think LJ is a fraud etc is way off the mark of how he is viewed by a lot of people in football. Aside from the fact that "frauds" or even poor coaches don't tend to become one of the longest serving managers in the country or achieve season-on-season progress for four years, achieved by no other current manager in English football. Those types of comments don't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Thanks re: Cooper and Jordan, both before my time. Demonstrates the examples are scarce. 

Of course his weaknesses will be known, however that's not what I was suggesting. I was stating that some of our fans that think LJ is a fraud etc is way off the mark of how he is viewed by a lot of people in football. Aside from the fact that "frauds" or even poor coaches don't tend to become one of the longest serving managers in the country or achieve season-on-season progress for four years, achieved by no other current manager in English football. Those types of comments don't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

Maybe the Copper & Jordan thing also demonstrates differing expectations. And differing impressions shaped by age. By comparison with them Lee Johnson really is an absolute nobody I'm afraid, won nothing, played in teams managed by his Dad - versus World Cups and titles....

...but hey, I accept that whilst I might not rate LJ  he clearly has something as a coach...I think he's been over promoted but I fully accept that others with better experience of the business of modern football and of coaching can make a case against that view. And I'll be happy to be proved wrong if it means that City are doing well.

However, I'm not sure that the length of his tenure is solely due to his talent, it's also due to Steve Lansdown having a personal investment in his success. I suspect he'll be here for a while yet regardless of performances.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Red Exile - taking LJ out of the discussion for a second....i’d never really thought of Cooper and Jordan’s managerial reigns in context of being previous players at World Cups.

I can't tell you how encouraging it was to have footballing giants rescue the club in the 80s! Players as well as managers in their early days, and both were brilliant players despite their age.

Such a shame when Jordan left.

Terry Cooper was remarkable manager. I still have a letter he hand wrote to me. As student I'd dropped him a note to say how much I'd enjoyed a game. He'd pinned it on the dressing room wall. Lovely man.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Red Exile - taking LJ out of the discussion for a second....i’d never really thought of Cooper and Jordan’s managerial reigns in context of being previous players at World Cups.

You might have done if you were a player wondering whether to sign for Bristol City.

Their standing in the game was huge and both were admired and respected by players and fans up and down the country.

We were extremely fortunate to have both, but particularly TC.

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20 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I can't tell you how encouraging it was to have footballing giants rescue the club in the 80s! Players as well as managers in their early days, and both were brilliant players despite their age.

Such a shame when Jordan left.

Terry Cooper was remarkable manager. I still have a letter he hand wrote to me. As student I'd dropped him a note to say how much I'd enjoyed a game. He'd pinned it on the dressing room wall. Lovely man.

I've still got two from TC, one telling me to stop "worrying," !  Never wrote to another manager since (always worrying though....)

Will probably try and flog them to @Never to the dark side at some point....

 

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5 hours ago, Natchfever said:

It clearly has melted some brains trying to locate a credible example of AN OFFER !

Do we ever public here about offers if the manager doesn't take the job? I would think that's pretty rare - can you think of some examples? We get rumors and media suggestions sometimes and LJ definitely had that at one point with the Villa job. If you are hoping for more than that I doubt you'll find it. 

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4 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Do we ever public here about offers if the manager doesn't take the job? I would think that's pretty rare - can you think of some examples? We get rumors and media suggestions sometimes and LJ definitely had that at one point with the Villa job. If you are hoping for more than that I doubt you'll find it. 

Could we start a Manager/coach transfer speculation forum?

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

LJ is no less popular based on personal characteristics than other City managers including Cotterill and SOD, in my opinion.

I don't think the facts bear that out mate.

SOD was an abject failure and a miserable See you next tuesday so of course he was disliked, there wasn't a redeeming feature about him.

Cotterill arrived here disliked based on perceived personal characteristics (which the vast majority later acknowledged to be unfair, including you I recall on your chance meeting with him outside Ashton Park after one game) before he even started and won round the vast majority based not just on results but, ironically, his personality, which was - in contrast to the current manager, IMO - forthright, honest, insightful, and very protective towards his players, who respected him to a man.

My point is, if we were in the position we are in under any other manager, I don't think that manager would be attracting the degree of dislike that LJ does from his own supporters. 

Not saying that is justifiable or not, but it is remarkable, as you yourself pointed out on your entry into this thread. You have to ask yourself why that might be. We are one place off the play offs but many fans wouldn't be sorry to see him gone, that is odd isn't it.

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On 09/02/2020 at 17:54, lenred said:

Think that’s pretty harsh. After us I think it’ll be a biggish team in League 1 or low level Championship. Or who knows a coaching position in the Prem, but I get the impression he wouldn’t take a support role. Could be wrong though.  St. George’s Park not out of the question either. 

Yes harsh, but it is reality. I am not saying LJ cannot come back or reinvent himself. Far from it. I am not saying he is not hard working and dedicated, he is. He simply lacks ability, experience, and vision. Champagne dreams beer ability. Too much too early , and an indulgence he will not get at any other club. So if he moves, he will. not get 4 years to show , well show anything. No team in the last 10 years has got promoted from the Championship to the Prem with a coach that has been at the club 4 years. LJ should have learnt his trade at the lower levels, learnt how to get a team promoted or worked for a top Prem side with the youth teams. Like the majority of his squad, he sends out,   he needs a loan period at a lower league side to gain experience and learn his trade.  Miles off what BCFC needs right now, and not talking first team, but the whole approach top to bottom in terms of footballing philosophy. 

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1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Were you at Anfield for the rest of the time?! ?????✌️?

No, I was sat at home on Saturdays, avoiding getting injured, so I could play for this shit awful Sunday side, whose manager insisted on everyone taking turns being sub, and then made sure all 3 subs came on at h-t!!!

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11 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People can have a critical view of Johnson but I can't really take people's opinions seriously if they reference his ability as a player. It's totally irrelevant but perhaps reveals unconscious bias as to why you don't like him as a manager.. a hangover of you not rating him as a player.

I’m probably a rare one in this case, because I quite liked him as a player, he did the simple things well.

It’s quite ironic that I find he does the complete opposite as a manager, by making everything complicated! 

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11 hours ago, One man went.... said:

Most City fans I know hate him. Most City fans are also not bigging him up on a forum

This, and for a reason I fully understand to: his sometimes arrogant persona.

11 hours ago, Natchfever said:

Really odd isn't it.

The vast majority of City fans I know want him gone.

As you say most City fans avoid this forum.

Personally I think he’s a decent coach but he really lacks certain qualities it takes to be a successful manager. 

I’d not be adverse to see him as a coach at Ashton Gate, a “head” coach even, but under the guidance of an experienced championship manager, or the likes of Joe Jordan.

 I just don’t see the bloke taking us up,  I’m also unsure that he can deliver entertaining football week in week out at Ashton Gate, A’s much as football is a results business, entertainment and a style of play/identity should be a given after this long in the job, unfortunately we don’t have that “yet”, and if we’re all honest with each other I’m not sure we will ever see this, the longer this goes on the more distant those offers may be.....

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