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Lee had offers.


glen humphries

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1 hour ago, Riaz said:

7th in the league is very good.

Lose your two best players and on course to finish higher than the previous year. Thats very good.

I know some of you think we're man utd. But were not, we are Bristol City. We were in league one not long ago and we lose our best players constantly.

Every team in this league will lose the best players they have if someone wants them , sheff utd were in league 1 not long ago and  as long as we dont  win games and get results  Lee will have a job for life we shouldnt think we cant go up because were little bristol city

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7 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

our record this season teams in the top half  won 2 drawn 4 lost 6 against teams in the bottom half won 12 drawn 4 lost 3 our problem now is we have 10 games against teams in the top half and 5 in the bottom half, can we get the 7 wins we need maybe but anything less than the play offs will be seen as failure

Where were these teams when we played them?
 

Many will have moved up or down since we played them.

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5 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Every team in this league will lose the best players they have if someone wants them , sheff utd were in league 1 not long ago and  as long as we dont  win games and get results  Lee will have a job for life we shouldnt think we cant go up because were little bristol city

Sheffield United have done brilliantly, Wilder is an exceptional manager - but they are an exception. It won't come together like that for most teams.

We can definitely learn from them and study how they got it right - but to basically say 'Sheffield United did it why can't we' is far too simplistic. 

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10 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Every team in this league will lose the best players they have if someone wants them , sheff utd were in league 1 not long ago and  as long as we dont  win games and get results  Lee will have a job for life we shouldnt think we cant go up because were little bristol city

Not many have lost as many as us...

But how many improve year on year, when losing players constantly?

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16 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

We’ve won 14 games this season, out of 31 games. There are still 15 games to play.

Our past 10 win totals in the Championship over 46 games have seen win totals of 20 (play off place), 15, 15, 17, 12, 11 (relegation), 13, 15, 17, 19 (last season)

14 wins at this stage of the season seems pretty good when compared to the totals above.

If we were to win 7 out of the remaining 15 games, it would be our best ever total.

We have 15 games left, as you say.

10 of those are against teams in the top half of the table (and 5 against bottom half sides, obv).

To date, we have won 14 games.

Two of those 14 wins were against teams now in the top half of the table, and the rest, 12, against the crap sides.

One of those "crap" sides, or being more polite, bottom half sides, we have left to play, are Derby, who don't look like being a crap side for much more of this season.

 

If we were to win 7 of our remaining 15 games, we're going to have to step up a bit against the better sides, you would have to think.

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20 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Really?!! Bit daft. I think everyone who has signed up to OTIB knows we're Bristol City. And knows Bristol City's track record of spectacular underachievement and the club's capacity to regularly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

You'd think they would be use to it by now!

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9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Sheffield United have done brilliantly, Wilder is an exceptional manager - but they are an exception. It won't come together like that for most teams.

We can definitely learn from them and study how they got it right - but to basically say 'Sheffield United did it why can't we' is far too simplistic. 

I think this is some people's beef with LJ (the ones who are not simply disliking him from his playing days) - he isn't exceptional - he is merely competent, broadly average. Not rubbish, not brilliant - just ok. What he has done, a number of other available chaps could've done.

When they felt the club promoted him as exceptional. Although that term was never used.

And the problem being, some might think, is that for us to get over the line and seal promotion, is going to take exceptional leadership. Given our history, our buy and sell philosophy, the limitations of FFP, the vagaries of referees and "individual errors" by players, etc etc.

 

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The reality is we are in a very decent position but it is deeply frustrating that, season after season, we get ourselves into a strong position and then we lose key games. Friday was a great chance to get us into a really strong position and we've now got a tough run of games coming up.

For me, the major tests are Leeds and West Brom. So far this season, aside from Fulham away, we just haven't been at the races against the very best teams in the division. I really want us to be competitive in those two games and I think that would go a long way to reassuring fans that we aren't going to throw this away. But, before that Derby is going to be a real test. 

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4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The reality is we are in a very decent position but it is deeply frustrating that, season after season, we get ourselves into a strong position and then we lose key games. Friday was a great chance to get us into a really strong position and we've now got a tough run of games coming up.

For me, the major tests are Leeds and West Brom. So far this season, aside from Fulham away, we just haven't been at the races against the very best teams in the division. I really want us to be competitive in those two games and I think that would go a long way to reassuring fans that we aren't going to throw this away. But, before that Derby is going to be a real test. 

I agree, Derby is a huge game. They're a team with a strong squad who have underachieved - their form is beginning to turn. On paper they're probably a playoff side looking at their squad. Beating them will be a big achievement and should help to ease concerns.

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 Other sides are trying to beat us - and some will do it; that's the game !

And yet, every season, three sides always prevail, and go up, despite all those other bloody sides, going around trying to beat them.

And some people around here wonder - when will we be one of those three sides? When is it our turn? Some are just fed up of waiting, they are low on patience, and perspective is thin on the ground.

This does look, to many onlookers, like a good year to be giving it a bloody good go. Friday evening looked like we had nothing to go for.

 

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3 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

And yet, every season, three sides always prevail, and go up, despite all those other bloody sides, going around trying to beat them.

And some people around here wonder - when will we be one of those three sides? When is it our turn? Some are just fed up of waiting, they are low on patience, and perspective is thin on the ground.

This does look, to many onlookers, like a good year to be giving it a bloody good go. Friday evening looked like we had nothing to go for.

 

It could well be us, we're only in February. If we get through the next three tough games with a respectable points total (anything over 4 points) then I think we're looking very good for the playoffs.

Friday was disappointing, but our business in January indicates we are 'giving it a bloody good go'. 

Proven Championship goalscorer, proven Championship centre midfielder to replace Brownhill, highly rated centre back that came here ahead of bigger clubs. 

Let's see how we get on, next few games are a big acid test.

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14 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

And yet, every season, three sides always prevail, and go up, despite all those other bloody sides, going around trying to beat them.

And some people around here wonder - when will we be one of those three sides? When is it our turn? Some are just fed up of waiting, they are low on patience, and perspective is thin on the ground.

This does look, to many onlookers, like a good year to be giving it a bloody good go. Friday evening looked like we had nothing to go for.

 

Correct but do they go unbeaten? Never have a bad run?

If Leeds do go up do you think their supporters will remember or even care what has happened recently?

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22 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Were we ?

Or is that just another guess 

Come on..! 
I loved Cotts and will always hold him in high regard for our league one success - but we we heading straight back to league one at the first attempt. No doubts whatsoever about that! 

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11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Come on..! 
I loved Cotts and will always hold him in high regard for our league one success - but we we heading straight back to league one at the first attempt. No doubts whatsoever about that! 

Indeed. We had two wins in sixteen games and had conceded 3 or more goals 7 times in about 26 games. Obviously nobody can predict the future for sure but I was utterly convinced we were on our way down. That's not to be disrespectful to Cotts - the football we played the previous season is the best I can remember us playing. But we were in massive trouble. 

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3 hours ago, RedRock said:

It’s a Forum. A platform for different views.

I align myself more to the views of @BobBobSuperBob than the ‘LJ is God’ brigade. 
 

Me too.  I get on well with Bob, and I think the vast majority of his replies Yesterday were providing some balance / Devil’s advocate responses to the squad / recruitment threads as well as Weimann thread, not anything to do with losing a game.

Many are exasperated by our inability to sort out our home form. It wasn’t just the defeat on Friday, it was the manner of the defeat. We were utterly hopeless, having been gifted a goal and a chance to impose ourselves. This has happened far too often. 

Some are more extreme than others in venting their frustration. Don’t have a problem with that, as I don’t have a problem people trying to defend LJ.

I’d rather Bob didn’t respond in the way he does sometimes, but there are plenty of others that do and aren’t tarnished in the same way!

We need to expose ourselves to different views of the world. 

I don’t believe LJ should have a job for life. I look at Chris Wilder and think, less resources, less experience, yet 5th in the Premiership playing attractive, powerful, passionate football and ask, how come? 

Doesn't make me any less of a City supporter and the same, I’m sure, is true for Bob. 

If you think ‘supporting’ is just blindly and unquestioningly following what’s provided then you’ve a different take on ‘supporting’ than I. 

 

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yeah I agree, Friday we were poor and the game was a bad spectacle. I think agreement is unanimous that we have to alter the home form or we might miss out on the playoffs.

What my post was in reference to was the ridiculous hyperbolic analysis that Johnson is some sort of fraud who wouldn't get a job elsewhere. He's obviously not that bad and people need to get some perspective. Other sides are trying to beat us - and some will do it; that's the game !

And by the same token he ain’t the messiah either. 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Good post Dave, I agree re: BBSB. 

I'm sure he'd agree though there are times he could avoid getting sucked into the temptation of tit-for-tat. It does happen a fair amount and other posters know it, hence some that clearly try to provoke him. Sometimes he does go overboard, but he doesn't need me to say it - he knows.

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

And by the same token he ain’t the messiah either. 

I don't think there are people on here that think he is necessarily, he's clearly not perfect and has plenty to work on. I think it feels like there are people that will use anything possible to discredit him - he really isn't that bad.

I have defended him many times over the years but there are plenty of things I wish he'd cut out or work on - namely

  • Throwing players under the bus - he seems to have cut this out a fair amount, but I really was uncomfortable with him singling out younger players like Magnússon and Taylor Moore for public criticism.
  • Saying things that come back to bite him - He's better at this now, but he's always made comments that often get slightly misquoted and taken out of context (Europe in 5 years, 3 transfer windows, the weird spat with Aston Villa) etc. These soundbytes are easily memorable and people will use them against him - even if this can be unfair when you dig deeper into the true context.
  • Streaks of form 
  • Uninspiring home performances

There's plenty more but these are recurring themes off the top of my head with his management that I've found particularly frustrating. 

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25 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. We had two wins in sixteen games and had conceded 3 or more goals 7 times in about 26 games. Obviously nobody can predict the future for sure but I was utterly convinced we were on our way down. That's not to be disrespectful to Cotts - the football we played the previous season is the best I can remember us playing. But we were in massive trouble. 

Funny thing is if Cotts had gone on to do what LJ has then people would be saying build a statue of him! 

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45 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Come on..! 
I loved Cotts and will always hold him in high regard for our league one success - but we we heading straight back to league one at the first attempt. No doubts whatsoever about that! 

Nope, Cotts. had never overseen a relegation in a 20+ year career in management.

When the chips were down there were none better than him in salvaging a grim situation.

You and others might have thought relegation was inevitable - I, and others, completely disagree.

To say there was no doubt about it is nonsense.

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On 08/02/2020 at 08:27, man in the middle said:

Anyone after a mid table manager?

What, instead of LJ who has improved us year on year and had us around the play offs for the last 3 seasons? No thanks

On 08/02/2020 at 09:44, Charlie BCFC said:

Great, we’re back to slaughtering Johnson after 4 wins on the bounce...

******* brilliant, isn't it?

This forum has the ability to entertain and educate and delight at times, but **** me, there's more than its fair share of pricks on here

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Nope, Cotts. had never overseen a relegation in a 20+ year career in management.

When the chips were down there were none better than him in salvaging a grim situation.

You and others might have thought relegation was inevitable - I, and others, completely disagree.

To say there was no doubt about it is nonsense.

He was woeful and ran out of ideas. Using very predictable tactics.

Things improved under LJ immediately.

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3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Sheffield United have done brilliantly, Wilder is an exceptional manager - but they are an exception. It won't come together like that for most teams.

We can definitely learn from them and study how they got it right - but to basically say 'Sheffield United did it why can't we' is far too simplistic. 

Actually, I think we’re the exception - alongside Preston. And I use Brentford as the other benchmark in my mini-League as though much smaller than us on all indicators, they operate a similar Club development philosophy. 

Every Club of a comparable size, and many smaller than us, have spent time in The Premier League. 

We haven’t. We have a Chairman/Owner acknowledged by many managers who have achieved the Premier League goal as being amongst the best in the business. LJ has been given time, resources and every management toy available to attain Premier League status.

If we drop off out of contention now - and last Friday’s match was an example of everything that goes wrong with an LJ side - then he must be gone. 

He’s got to the end of the Season. Now is the time to deliver. He’s cocked up one of the remaining eighteen games. Now just seventeen left. We can’t afford any more lame, inept, clueless performances like the last. 

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18 minutes ago, Riaz said:

He was woeful and ran out of ideas. Using very predictable tactics.

Things improved under LJ immediately.

Things had already improved under caretakers Pemberton and Elliott with the help of the 3 players brought in by the club after Cotterill left.

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Things had already improved under caretakers Pemberton and Elliott with the help of the 3 players brought in by the club after Cotterill left.

Yes after cotterill.

And only Lee Tomlin of those signigs, you could say made the LJ squad better than Cotts squad.

For me tho, i think its clear, we were going down and that we would never go down under LJ.

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Was Cotts actually trying (to be any good) though, August to January 15/16? 

I've often imagined he was deliberately being obtuse, but would've turnt it around in time to finish above the drop (Mk Dons were as bad as us in Jan 16 but did not have the means or need to do much about it, ie bring in quality. It wasn't a "disaster" for them to go straight back down).

Was it about Lee - the Pemberton/Wade/someone else axis turnt it around before Lee arrived - or was it about players? Quality on the pitch.

I don't know if Tomlin would've come here had Cotts stayed in the job, but Tomlin (on loan) made a big difference. I remember the other players saying this at the time. The Championship was easy to him, he was not phased by it, he was all "give me the ball, I can do this" confidence, which our L1 boys needed (from the start of that season).

It's the same with Lee now - he's doing better now than in 16/17 because the squad is much better and stronger. For the most part. I would argue/suggest.

Same for almost any coach - they're about as good as the players they've got (with some notable, genius exceptions, ie a Brian Clough).

I think Cotts was messing around, because he couldn't have his way, but all the while knowing he could do enough to keep us up and not add a relegation to his cv/locker.

But I have nothing to base this upon beyond what was said on here at the time and my fertile imagination.....

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7 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Was Cotts actually trying (to be any good) though, August to January 15/16? 

I've often imagined he was deliberately being obtuse, but would've turnt it around in time to finish above the drop (Mk Dons were as bad as us in Jan 16 but did not have the means or need to do much about it, ie bring in quality. It wasn't a "disaster" for them to go straight back down).

Was it about Lee - the Pemberton/Wade/someone else axis turnt it around before Lee arrived - or was it about players? Quality on the pitch.

I don't know if Tomlin would've come here had Cotts stayed in the job, but Tomlin (on loan) made a big difference. I remember the other players saying this at the time. The Championship was easy to him, he was not phased by it, he was all "give me the ball, I can do this" confidence, which our L1 boys needed (from the start of that season).

It's the same with Lee now - he's doing better now than in 16/17 because the squad is much better and stronger. For the most part. I would argue/suggest.

Same for almost any coach - they're about as good as the players they've got (with some notable, genius exceptions, ie a Brian Clough).

I think Cotts was messing around, because he couldn't have his way, but all the while knowing he could do enough to keep us up and not add a relegation to his cv/locker.

But I have nothing to base this upon beyond what was said on here at the time and my fertile imagination.....

I've heard it all now! A manager purposely doing badly!

Come on now. He wasnt good enough. Never has been at this level.

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2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I've heard it all now! A manager purposely doing badly!

Come on now. He wasnt good enough. Never has been at this level.

Can't disagree he hasn't performed well at this level. But i'd love to see what Cotts would've done with the same money LJ has been given. I felt Cotts bought very well. Not saying LJ hasn't... before anyone gets carried away 

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