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Little midfield can't help


Top Robin

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Smith, Massengo, Paterson, Elliason are all under 6ft and a couple well under.

Height must be important in midfield obviously for heading but also for tackling with longer legs and covering more ground.

Some short midfielders are superb but I think you need a couple of tall ones in there as well.

Just a thought.

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31 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Smith, Massengo, Paterson, Elliason are all under 6ft and a couple well under.

Height must be important in midfield obviously for heading but also for tackling with longer legs and covering more ground.

Some short midfielders are superb but I think you need a couple of tall ones in there as well.

Just a thought.

and all (apart from Massengo) look like they weigh less than 10 stones.

Nagy is also very lightweight.

We need a solid enforcer (such as Souness or Patrick Vieira ) with more height and weight.

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41 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Smith, Massengo, Paterson, Elliason are all under 6ft and a couple well under.

Height must be important in midfield obviously for heading but also for tackling with longer legs and covering more ground.

Some short midfielders are superb but I think you need a couple of tall ones in there as well.

Just a thought.

Bristol City made double the amount of tackles Birmingham did. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City made double the amount of tackles Birmingham did. 

That’s all well and good but no one can deny that Massengo and Nagy are both currently too lightweight for the hurly burly of the Championship and why LJ brought in Henriksen who is not yet fully fit.

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46 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Smith, Massengo, Paterson, Elliason are all under 6ft and a couple well under.

Height must be important in midfield obviously for heading but also for tackling with longer legs and covering more ground.

Some short midfielders are superb but I think you need a couple of tall ones in there as well.

Just a thought.

Depends on what type of football you are trying to play.  Man City style or Wimbledon???

I hear pundits saying Lee’s City are a team that likes to pass it.  I completely disagree.  To that point, you could argue we need a different midfield.

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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s all well and good but no one can deny that Massengo and Nagy are both currently too lightweight for the hurly burly of the Championship and why LJ brought in Henriksen who is not yet fully fit.

Yes you can deny it.

What is the correlation between size and success in football, or tacking and success?

What is it Bristol City are attempting to be and what does the football require?

 

 

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Depends on what type of football you are trying to play.  Man City style or Wimbledon???

I hear pundits saying Lee’s City are a team that likes to pass it.  I completely disagree.  To that point, you could argue we need a different midfield.

Consider this post.  

Bristol City pass the ball poorly and concede lots of possession to the opposition. If the intent is to pass it you can also argue the underlined above.

 

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9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Yes you can deny it.

What is the correlation between size and success in football, or tacking and success?

What is it Bristol City are attempting to be and what does the football require?

I’m referring to the physicality of the Championship and imo both Massengo and Nagy are too lightweight. Sure both are very talented with great skills but they often lose out in 50/50 situations - that’s my point...........:cool2:

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’m referring to the physicality of the Championship and imo both Massengo and Nagy are too lightweight. Sure both are very talented with great skills but they often lose out in 50/50 situations - that’s my point...........:cool2:

You did not answer the questions posed. 

If tackling and height is such a requisite for the championship how do Bristol City compare to the top three or previous teams that were promoted? The City of now certainly tackle more and win more duels than some of these lightweight teams.

Football is becoming less physical in terms of tackling by the decade and seasons. The championship is not particularly physical in that respect.

Football has become more mobile and technical. 

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47 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City made double the amount of tackles Birmingham did. 

 

 

Never trust statistics without considering the context. In the First World War the number of soldiers treated for head injuries increased dramatically after the introduction of steel helmets. This lead some people to conclude that steel helmets were dangerous and should be withdrawn. The reality was prior to the use of helmets, most soldiers who were hit on the head died, hence hardly any needed treatment. 
 

With regard to the high number of tackles made by City, this is probably due to City being outplayed and overrun in midfield. Birmingham didn’t need to make so many tackles as City’s play was highly predictable. Just pass it around slowly and eventually hit a high cross into the box that was easily cleared. As for the height (lack of) of the City’s midfield, I think this is a problem, but not the root cause. The real issue is the midfield is a bunch of weeds who can be blown over by a gust of wind. If 

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2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Smith, Massengo, Paterson, Elliason are all under 6ft and a couple well under.

Height must be important in midfield obviously for heading but also for tackling with longer legs and covering more ground.

Some short midfielders are superb but I think you need a couple of tall ones in there as well.

Just a thought.

LJ said precisely this about height of his squad re the signings on deadline day. Henriksen is 6 foot 2 I believe. 

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30 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I thought Nagy looked ok when he came on last night. Admittedly he looks the least comfortable dribbler I’ve ever seen, but he took the ball forwards. It was the very opposite to stop, shield and pass backwards Massengo. 

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Thought Massengo was one of the positives last night.

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HNM just looks a bit tired and lacking snap at the mo. Have to remember he is 18 + in his first full season - even the Brum wonder kid got Taken off yesterday. That said I think he needs to play where Smith is to get the best out of him. Nagy has played half the season injury affected. Think both will do well next year with a year’s experience of this league’s tempo, and a full pre season.

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37 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Never trust statistics without considering the context. In the First World War the number of soldiers treated for head injuries increased dramatically after the introduction of steel helmets. This lead some people to conclude that steel helmets were dangerous and should be withdrawn. The reality was prior to the use of helmets, most soldiers who were hit on the head died, hence hardly any needed treatment. 
 

With regard to the high number of tackles made by City, this is probably due to City being outplayed and overrun in midfield. Birmingham didn’t need to make so many tackles as City’s play was highly predictable. Just pass it around slowly and eventually hit a high cross into the box that was easily cleared. As for the height (lack of) of the City’s midfield, I think this is a problem, but not the root cause. The real issue is the midfield is a bunch of weeds who can be blown over by a gust of wind. If 

What is it Bristol City are attempting to be and what does the football require?  There is the context. The amount of tackles City make per game is not low but what is it this football requires?  What are the keystones? 

If Bristol City really need bigger physical players in February when they had numerous Internationals on the bench, costly signings not on it, that identifies a recruitment issue.

 

 

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Height doesn't matter all that much imo.

Thought the shape was wrong. Smith too isolated, and considering that he did a very good job.

I don't know what level Morrell is at. But I imagine that aggression in there and ability to move the ball quickly. We could have done with that last night.

Massengo was poor and was too far forward.

I thought him and pato getting so advanced restricted our wingers freedom.

I don't like seeing such big gaps between our midfielders.

I bet if we signed Ben Pearson then people would not be complaining about him being short. So it shows you can be a quality aggressive midfielder and not be very tall.

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I thought we got bullied in the middle at time’s last night but I think what was more concerning was the lack of a player in the middle driving us on, moving us back to front quickly. As much as I hate to say it with him being gone one game, we missed a Brownhill type player. I’m hoping Henrikson is what we are missing as a middle of Smith Nagy and HNM doesn’t strike me as one that would control a game

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Depends on what type of football you are trying to play.  Man City style or Wimbledon???

I hear pundits saying Lee’s City are a team that likes to pass it.  I completely disagree.  To that point, you could argue we need a different midfield.

Indeed and the midfield has been built to be mobile, playing quick passes and popping the ball off quickly, meaning you can dominate possession and thus reduce the impact of a lack of height. 

But as has been my main frustration our recruitment policy has clearly been geared towards playing a certain way and we seem to have chucked that in the bin before the season even started. 

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17 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

I think our MF has been our Achilles heel all season.  Now JB has gone not one of our midfield players has that extra bit of quality that is needed at this level. JB weighed in with a few goals for us but I can't see our current MF players scoring 1 or 2 between them. 

Pato has 3 in about 5 games hasn't he?

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8 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Alan i would say Korey not the same player aswell.

I'm surprised he has played as well as he has. Our second best player behind Paterson last night imo.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

29AA970C-3C2D-4E63-8392-A4C669A01C0D.thumb.jpeg.8b081e5ecb849384038a3758e55be746.jpeg

Thought Massengo was one of the positives last night.

Those stats suggest 34 passes. Not enough from a central midfielder. 
Not his fault necessarily, just the way the game was last night. 
I’d be interested to see Smith’s passes too. Probably not many more than 50 I’d guess. 
 

Long gone are the days where Pack made 75-90 passes in a game. 
 

Anyway, I counted them up, and noted that Smith & Massengo only passed it to EACH OTHER on 10 occasions. Only 1 of those was what could be properly considered a ‘forward’ pass. And in only 3 occasions did we then keep the ball for another 2 passes afterwards!! 
 

That’s the biggest issue we face at the moment. A central midfield that simply do not pass to each other. We don’t maintain possession. We don’t pass & move in the midfield, trying to pull the opposition out of shape and create holes for forward passes. The midfield basically ignore each other. I mean, FFS, 10 passes to each other. That’s scandalous!! 
 

We have 2 routes to the opposition final third at the moment. 1) Try to get it to Eliasson to cross or 2) Get one of the back 4 to hit it 50 yards forward. 
We have absolutely zero ability to maintain possession in the midfield, thus no ability to control the game and impose ourselves. 
 

Midfield is as bad as I’ve seen it for many many years. I know lots didn’t like him, but oh my god, we are crying out for Pack, someone to just get the ball, pass and move, pass and move, keep possession, draw the oppo out. Crying out for him!!! I could see Massengo being a VERY different player with Pack alongside him. Pass, control, security, allowing Massengo to do stuff - which he certainly seems technically capable of. There’s just no one who wants the ball!! 
Terrible midfield at the moment. 

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