Little midfield can't help

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Brentford have Pontus Jansson who is bloody huge, and do you really think Leeds and West Brom have no enforcers?

Birmingham may have made only 9 tackles according to whatever stats model you use (and remember the old adage, there are lies, damned lies and statistics) however if you watched the game you'd realise that the dispossession that ensued was usually in our half and led to dangerous breaks. 

I'm really not denying that pass accuracy and movement off the ball is more important to the modern game - and to City.

I do know obvious deficiencies when they stare me in the face.

Anyway, rather than try to shoot down everyone else's posts, maybe you can tell us why - in your view - City flopped against a big, physical, but not particularly highly-skilled Brum side?  We were on a winning streak, morale would be high. 

We've seen City try to - unsuccessfully - play possession football many times and it results in the ultra-slow build-up you note (and we can all see).

How would you address this?  We have nimble players. We have creative players.

And who in midfield do you see stop the inevitable breaks that occur in attacking play?  Because by the time it gets to our last man - the poor sod, who inevitably gets blamed by most ,it's usually too late.

I politely (I hope) answered (shoot down?) your points not everyone else's. 

That is a lot of points and questions.

The highlighted. But there is a lack of consistency. City have used seven formations this season stop that. Keep things more simple. In Lee  speak be world class (better) at the basics of defend, attack and set pieces of one formation. 

The above cuts down on variables. By focussing on the passing patterns in periodized training of one shape fluency normally is improved, by focussing on the responses of lost possession and players responsibilities in roles from one shape collective defending Is normally improved. Attempting to advance understanding of roles in one system - Decide (finally) what it is you want to be.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I politely (I hope) answered (shoot down?) your points not everyone else's. 

That is a lot of points and questions.

The highlighted. But there is a lack of consistency. City have used seven formations this season stop that. Keep things more simple. In Lee  speak be world class (better) at the basics of defend, attack and set pieces of one formation. 

The above cuts down on variables. By focussing on the passing patterns in periodized training of one shape fluency normally is improved, by focussing on the responses of lost possession and players responsibilities in roles from one shape collective defending Is normally improved. Attempting to advance understanding of roles in one system - Decide (finally) what it is you want to be.

But we used the same formation on Friday as brought us success before?

I actually think most players do already want to be better at the basics of defence, attack and set pieces. Even ones who play for the Gas do - amazingly!  Few pros will think they've nothing to learn, or can't improve.

Where we go wrong (IMO) is by being too ponderous in our attacks and too lightweight to stop counterattacks in the middle third of the pitch. We also leave vast spaces behind the full backs when they advance that can and are exploited by the opposition.

It's a time of flux now with three new additions, so it might take a while for LJ to decide the best system. There'll be a few experiments. However I think one aspect of very successful management that Lee can fall short of is recognising his players' weaknesses. He seems to know their strengths, but often puts them in situations where they cannot shine.

[Wrongagain]

On 08/02/2020 at 11:17, Davefevs said:

Depends on what type of football you are trying to play.  Man City style or Wimbledon???

I hear pundits saying Lee’s City are a team that likes to pass it.  I completely disagree.  To that point, you could argue we need a different midfield.

Don’t know what the pundits are watching, even the bottom clubs pass completion is better than ours

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But we used the same formation on Friday as brought us success before?

I actually think most players do already want to be better at the basics of defence, attack and set pieces. Even ones who play for the Gas do - amazingly!  Few pros will think they've nothing to learn, or can't improve.

Where we go wrong (IMO) is by being too ponderous in our attacks and too lightweight to stop counterattacks in the middle third of the pitch. We also leave vast spaces behind the full backs when they advance that can and are exploited by the opposition.

It's a time of flux now with three new additions, so it might take a while for LJ to decide the best system. There'll be a few experiments. However I think one aspect of very successful management that Lee can fall short of is recognising his players' weaknesses. He seems to know their strengths, but often puts them in situations where they cannot shine.

Its been flux all season. And last. 

Bristol City this season have used no formation ten times out of the seven Lee Johnson has experimented with. City used a formation twice in row. Wow.

WBA have used the same formation thirty times. 

 

 

 

 

[RedEyez]

On 08/02/2020 at 16:58, Harry said:

So I was right on Korey. Not much more than 50 passes. 
34 from his CM partner. 
Pack used to get more than that on his own. 
 

We need the midfield to start dictating the play. At the moment it’s terrible. 

Yeah, “not much more”...only double mind ..

[Harry]

37 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

Yeah, “not much more”...only double mind ..

Excuse me? 
My initial post stated that I’d guess that Korey had not much more than 50 passes. 
The stats confirmed he made 52 passes. 
So my assumption was correct. 
What’s this “double” you speak of? 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Its been flux all season. And last. 

Bristol City this season have used no formation ten times out of the seven Lee Johnson has experimented with. City used a formation twice in row. Wow.

WBA have used the same formation thirty times. 

 

 

 

 

You need more than just a familiar formation.

Ask Steve Cotterill.

[Oh Louie louie]

I must agree we need more agression in midfield.

Not to mention creativity and chipping in goals.

We will struggle with that midfield.

 

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

You need more than just a familiar formation.

Ask Steve Cotterill.

Yes. Time and players are also a necessity. Mr Johnson has had both. But that is going away from your question. Teams in the top six all have a core formation. WBA, Leeds, Brentford have a formation they have used twenty plus times this season.

Bristol City have used seven formations. No one formation has been used ten times.

Do you feel Mr Johnson makes things to complex? Do you feel Mr Johnson is too reactive? Do you feel the players could be over coached? Do you feel the players are technically good enough for the changes Mr Johnson has made?  

A norm to improve fluency, create deeper learning is to concentrate on the basics, the principles of one formation and one approach, there will be changes but not the to the degree of Bristol City. Agree?

[Sixtyseconds]

Change Little for A DAVE MARTIN.

[marcofisher]

From previous stats Henriksen looks like he offers a lot more defensively and offensively than HNM, who has looked to be very shaky in a midfield 2 and perhaps not quite ready for the first team yet. So I would imagine as soon as he is up to match fitness he will be starting most games alongside Smith or Nagy.

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 08/02/2020 at 17:30, Davefevs said:

 

It must make you wonder what patterns they practice up at Failand?  They might as well set up to bang it long and play off the pieces.

Bit breezy up there yesterday and today, Dave. Certainly for banging it long. I'd imagine Lee's drone has been blown off course too, and Scott Murray is looking for it in some scrub around Nailsea at the moment.....

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I must agree we need more agression in midfield.

Not to mention creativity and chipping in goals.

We will struggle with that midfield.

 

Which is , presumably, why we bought in Henriksen .

We better get him up to speed pdq.

[The Batman]

Makelele, mascherano, Kante, Fernandinho. The best cmds of our and the last generation. All are 5ft 9 bar Kante who is 5ft 6. This whole, needs to be big to be able to tackle is nonsense. They just need to grow a pair and get stuck in. 

[Robin Wood]

On 08/02/2020 at 11:10, Cowshed said:

Bristol City made double the amount of tackles Birmingham did. 

 

 

Thats because Birmingham actually played some football unlike city

[The Batman]

47 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Makelele, mascherano, Kante, Fernandinho. The best cmds of our and the last generation. All are 5ft 9 bar Kante who is 5ft 6. This whole, needs to be big to be able to tackle is nonsense. They just need to grow a pair and get stuck in. 

Just to add further to this. The tough tackling types ie, Keane, simeone and gatusso - all are shorter than 6ft. 

They just need a better mentality when it comes to the physical side of the game. 

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Yes. Time and players are also a necessity. Mr Johnson has had both. But that is going away from your question. Teams in the top six all have a core formation. WBA, Leeds, Brentford have a formation they have used twenty plus times this season.

Bristol City have used seven formations. No one formation has been used ten times.

Do you feel Mr Johnson makes things to complex? Do you feel Mr Johnson is too reactive? Do you feel the players could be over coached? Do you feel the players are technically good enough for the changes Mr Johnson has made?  

A norm to improve fluency, create deeper learning is to concentrate on the basics, the principles of one formation and one approach, there will be changes but not the to the degree of Bristol City. Agree?

Do you feel Mr Johnson makes things to complex? Yes Do you feel Mr Johnson is too reactive? 100% Do you feel the players could be over coached? Yes Do you feel the players are technically good enough for the changes Mr Johnson has made?  In most cases yes, whether the coaches are good enough is another matter...

A norm to improve fluency, create deeper learning is to concentrate on the basics, the principles of one formation and one approach, there will be changes but not the to the degree of Bristol City. Agree? Totally

Looks like we've hit what geographers call a confluence.   

[Trueredsupporter]

if the Man Utd and City games were LJ's best football who was this menacing midfielder then??

[Oh Louie louie]

Best little midfielder who could put himself about in my time, would be tommy doc, brave as a lion.

Gary shelton always got stuck in and all.

I couldnt pick between the 2..

Worst steve galliers.

[Three Lions]

Shelton was a magnificent player. Drove the team on and was a leader. Bristol City dont have that now. a hope for the future is that the football will display a bit of what Shelton had. in 2020 you cant get stuck into the opposition but you can get around them and you move the ball quicker. you don't have to be as negative as Bristol City are at home. A bit of Sheltons drive and spirit would help rouse Johnsons library. Shelton would have been one of those busy bees Lee Johnson once wanted and he made a nonsense out of this too small midfield idea. 

[Oh Louie louie]

He must have lived out by the airport, because after he left us i used to see him driving a gary shelton of chester city car.