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Bristol Rob

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In a week where heading a football is being scrutinised due the damage it can cause you get this. 
 

Why is it only at football they have batons? I’ve seen many a group fighting in the city centre after a night out. No batons in site just 6/7 police officers pulling apart the group and arresting them. In that video their was absolutely no need for the officer to strike that fan. Could have quite easily rugby tackled him and diffused the situation that way. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

What was your opinion of the utter coward who clumped an obviously non aggressive Millwall fan outside AG and how an official complaint was swiftly dismissed by chief plod? Stuff like that doesn't help on the pr front although the average football fan isn't a demographic ob is too concerned about being on side with. 

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Here's the incident without the editing jumps.

It seems fairly clear that there's a tussle going on between 2 people, whereupon the brave officer runs at least 5 metres to greivously assult one of the protagonists from behind. It's quite obvious that's nothing like reasonable force and that the kid isn't stabbing anyone, or a terrorist.

The bloke who kicks out at the horrible bastard is apparently the kid's dad trying to get him off him. He has of course been arrested for this 'assault', doubtlessly the coward with the baton has not.

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7 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Here's the incident without the editing jumps.

It seems fairly clear that there's a tussle going on between 2 people, whereupon the brave officer runs at least 10 metres to greivously assult one of the protaganists from behind. It's quite obvious that's nothing like reasonable force and that the kid isn't stabbing anyone, or a terrorist.

The bloke who kicks out at the horrible bastard is apparently the kid's dad trying to get him off him. He has of course been arrested for this 'assault', doubtlessly the coward with the baton has not.

Oh dear 

 

Add The Policewoman hitting the older bloke with her baton whilst he’s defenceless on the floor might also take some explaining and the main protagonist carries on swinging his baton after the first blow

With the force he hit him with this could easily have caused life threatening injury

Panicking , adrenaline......and out of their depth

Cops do a great job but that’s Disgraceful

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Generally speaking I think the police do a superb job. Indeed, under intense provocation they seem to have super-human powers. If anyone spat at me in my face they would be smashed to oblivion by fist rather than baton.

Like all professions they have loose cannons. To tar all the Police by the actions of the very few is massively unfair. As several have said on the thread A&S Police, as D&C Police are pretty good. Those of a certain age will, however, remember the seeming complete nutter of a superintendent who ‘policed’ the divide on the Park End - so even A&S had their Mavericks.

What does worry me, far more than the odd rogue PC, is what appears totally biased policing in protecting those involved with illegal fox hunting. The Police need to be very careful, when the general public perceive that officers are being controlled and manipulated by the rich and powerful, then their public support starts to evaporate. Over 85% of the public are against fox hunting, time the Police Federation stood up to prevent their profession being brought into disrepute. 

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1 hour ago, Galway Red said:

It is truly embarrassing how some are trying to defend this

It’s embaressing defending it but i don’t think anyone was intending to defend it. I think it’s just got confused with trying to explain nobody knew what was happening in the 20-30 seconds before the video starts. 

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3 minutes ago, BristolCity1992 said:

I've done Bar Work, Health care, Homeless work, Drug and Alcohol services and currently working within social care. 

Cheers. Couldn’t think of a profession where you would come across thats sort of violence or aggression. But you most likely have.

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35 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Cheers. Couldn’t think of a profession where you would come across thats sort of violence or aggression. But you most likely have.

 This isn't every day either as I don't want to paint the roles as something they are not, but I've never seen anyone else, or personally felt the need to behave in the way that the police often do. 

I appreciate the "not all police" mantra and within the areas I have worked we also have bad people otherwise all of the  abuse that has gone on wouldn't have happened.

At the same time the police have often worked against the working class all through history. They are there to enforce the power of the state and protect capital. Breaking up strikes, valid protests, Squats,  Ian Tomlinson, institutional racism, spycops etc. Then the way they have behaved towards people I know. I dunno why people want to jump to their defence so quickly. 

There is a clear power dynamic between the police and citizens which is often acted out with impunity. 

 

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2 minutes ago, BristolCity1992 said:

 This isn't every day either as I don't want to paint the roles as something they are not, but I've never seen anyone or personally felt the need to behave in the way that the police often do. 

I appreciate the "not all police" mantra and within the areas I have worked we also have bad people otherwise all of the a abuse that has gone on wouldn't have happened.

At the same time the police have often worked against the working class all through history. They are there to enforce the power of the state. Breaking up strikes, valid protests, Squats,  Ian Tomlinson, institutional racism, spycops etc. Then the way they have behaved towards people I know. I dunno why people want to jump to their defence so quickly. 

There is a clear power dynamic between the police and citizens which is often acted out with impunity. 

 

 

Agree with that. It must be a difficult one though to police a football match. If it all kicks off and you are timid and passive then you won’t stop anything, but if you go flying in smashing people left right and centre you will only amplify the tensions. I can safely say i couldn’t do it.

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5 hours ago, JulieH said:

You have edited the thread containing that clip ;missing out the bit where the video was referred to the police complaints department by myself on behalf of the fans on this forum.

whether you agree with the decision on that occasion or not it was referred and investigated .

just to check, I am just as bad? As whom? The pc who is alleged to have hit a fan across the head? And that is based on the fact I am a police officer so therefore all police officers are the same in your opinion? 
 

everyone is entitled to an opinion and although I don’t agree with yours , you are entitled to air it 

Not sure what thread you’re on about. I haven’t edited anything.

We’ll see if they find it reasonable force this time.

The Police force you’re on here to represent is just as bad. My reasoning for that is as earlier posted - Millwall fan being struck similarly. We’ll just see if it’s dealt with as similarly.

Bet that copper from yesterday gutted he’s been caught on camera. Bet he won’t be doing that again. 

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7 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Not sure what thread you’re on about. I haven’t edited anything.

We’ll see if they find it reasonable force this time.

The Police force you’re on here to represent is just as bad. My reasoning for that is as earlier posted - Millwall fan being struck similarly. We’ll just see if it’s dealt with as similarly.

Bet that copper from yesterday gutted he’s been caught on camera. Bet he won’t be doing that again. 

Hope he loses job and pension. He should also get banged up for that it might encourage colleagues not to behave worse than the people they are policing. 

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8 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

Straws, clutching at...rearrange the words. Poor example there Fordy....

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6 hours ago, Gakoe said:

Well first off you said the video was”utter bollox” then you said that the victim may have been throwing a fire bomb (??) then you said what if he was stabbing people? Fu. Ck sake mate, can you see how that looks?

This......

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5 hours ago, JulieH said:

You have edited the thread containing that clip ;missing out the bit where the video was referred to the police complaints department by myself on behalf of the fans on this forum.

whether you agree with the decision on that occasion or not it was referred and investigated .

just to check, I am just as bad? As whom? The pc who is alleged to have hit a fan across the head? And that is based on the fact I am a police officer so therefore all police officers are the same in your opinion? 
 

everyone is entitled to an opinion and although I don’t agree with yours , you are entitled to air it 

It was brushed under the carpet Julie,....someone gave evidence, I know that for a fact. I was involved with the Press as well. An absolute joke .....the Police claimed the evidence given couldnt be used nor could the dashcam footage. Its all in the thread at the time.  SX225 may wish to comment...G'Day mate.

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19 hours ago, Spud55 said:

He hasn't defended it you dopey ***.

He's merely pointed out what anyone with an ounce of sense can see and that is that the video shows no context so cannot be used to judge if what was done was disproportionate or not. 

I bet you are one of those picks who reads about a court judgement in the tabloids and thinks they are then fit to comment on the case despite hearing precisely **** all of the evidence. 

Belter. 

 

What an absolute clown you are. 

So what level of context do you need apart from seeing someone armed with a baton charging at someone and beating them round the head? 

People have said, what if he threw a brick at the police? If he did, he is now no longer armed. 

If he had a knife or a weapon, you'd swing at the limbs to disable him. Anyone knows a punch, kick or blow with an object to the head could kill someone. 

And yet I'M the belter? And great assumption about what sort of shite newspaper I read. Bore off. Whatever paper someone reads has absolutely ZERO relevance to their views on police brutality, which is exactly what this is, and many have called this out for what it is, a disgraceful assault. 

Genuinely don't know how anyone can't see it for that. 

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22 hours ago, Harry said:

Genuine question Fordy. 
Are the police taught/encouraged to use their baton to strike the body/arms/legs, or are they taught to strike the head? 

@Fordy62 

I’ve given it 22 hours, so this is a gentle reminder. 
This was a totally genuine question, as I don’t know the answer. 
What is taught? In what circumstances are the police taught to aim for the head? 
Genuinely interested to know. 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

@Fordy62 

I’ve given it 22 hours, so this is a gentle reminder. 
This was a totally genuine question, as I don’t know the answer. 
What is taught? In what circumstances are the police taught to aim for the head? 
Genuinely interested to know. 

Sorry Harry, when I initially responded to this thread I was a little worse for wear and perhaps didn’t get my initial point across particularly well! And so when you asked I was amidst being told off by the wife for coming back from football a little too drunk (the joys of non league!). 
 

We’re taught that there are three sets of target areas for batons. Primary (muscle masses - typically the thigh or upper arm), secondary (joints - knee or elbow) and final (head or spine). 
 

Generally there’s no encouragement or practising of strikes to the head but that’s not to say we’re prohibited. Each scenario requires a dynamic response. Someone trying to stab you And causing genuine threat to your life (or another’s) is fair game for a headshot, whereas someone who’s just a bit bigger and harder wanting to fight is better off struck to the arms or legs. It basically all about ensuring that the force used is proportionate and being able to justify it.  My initial response to said video was to question exactly why it had been started at the point it was. The likelihood is that the kid who was struck probably not causing imminent threat to life - but we just can’t see so we can’t be 100% sure - we don’t know what he was doing. 
 

Rest assured I’d be feeling particularly uncomfortable if I were the officer in question and he’ll do well to justify his actions. I’m not a massive one for batons or spray in fact even when I was slashed across the hand I didn’t then use my baton - although my colleague did!

There are massive bellends in policing as there are all occupations, but there are some really nice guys too. Sadly though some people can’t see past the uniform and have an unnatural hatred for us - and to be fair videos like this one don’t do a lot to help. But I’m a nice guy and fortunately now working on homicide, I like to think the majority of my confrontational days are behind me.

 

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Was brought up to NEVER trust a copper. Tried to keep an open mind as a youngster, but experiences strongly support the advice given to me.(for some reason as a large white male I'm there biggest threat in any circumstance)  I now teach this to my children. Regardless of incident. No comment. It's the only way I can gaurantee they will not be tricked. Only the force can change minds. Behaviour like this just proves me right. 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Sorry Harry, when I initially responded to this thread I was a little worse for wear and perhaps didn’t get my initial point across particularly well! And so when you asked I was amidst being told off by the wife for coming back from football a little too drunk (the joys of non league!). 
 

We’re taught that there are three sets of target areas for batons. Primary (muscle masses - typically the thigh or upper arm), secondary (joints - knee or elbow) and final (head or spine). 
 

Generally there’s no encouragement or practising of strikes to the head but that’s not to say we’re prohibited. Each scenario requires a dynamic response. Someone trying to stab you And causing genuine threat to your life (or another’s) is fair game for a headshot, whereas someone who’s just a bit bigger and harder wanting to fight is better off struck to the arms or legs. It basically all about ensuring that the force used is proportionate and being able to justify it.  My initial response to said video was to question exactly why it had been started at the point it was. The likelihood is that the kid who was struck probably not causing imminent threat to life - but we just can’t see so we can’t be 100% sure - we don’t know what he was doing. 
 

Rest assured I’d be feeling particularly uncomfortable if I were the officer in question and he’ll do well to justify his actions. I’m not a massive one for batons or spray in fact even when I was slashed across the hand I didn’t then use my baton - although my colleague did!

There are massive bellends in policing as there are all occupations, but there are some really nice guys too. Sadly though some people can’t see past the uniform and have an unnatural hatred for us - and to be fair videos like this one don’t do a lot to help. But I’m a nice guy and fortunately now working on homicide, I like to think the majority of my confrontational days are behind me.

 

 

I'm sure you are nice, and the job you do is important, but it's not just a few bad individuals that let down the force. It's the institutional problems and abuse of power from the top down that are the reason that many can't stand the police. Without a massive overhaul that will never change, but I don't think there is any motivation to change it anyway. 

To say the hatred is unnatural shows your blinkered vision to be honest. It's come through the experiences that people have had since the first police forces were set up, and it's real, tangible, and tastes bitter. The police do a good job of validating it every day and this is particularly true in many certain neighbourhood's in Bristol and beyond. 

I think it's totally natural that many people hate the systems I've worked in, because those systems are also part of the problems that affect those we are meant to help. We can own that and fight for change, or I can say that hatred is unatural and invalidate the reasons why it exists in the first place as you have. 

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2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Sorry Harry, when I initially responded to this thread I was a little worse for wear and perhaps didn’t get my initial point across particularly well! And so when you asked I was amidst being told off by the wife for coming back from football a little too drunk (the joys of non league!). 
 

We’re taught that there are three sets of target areas for batons. Primary (muscle masses - typically the thigh or upper arm), secondary (joints - knee or elbow) and final (head or spine). 
 

Generally there’s no encouragement or practising of strikes to the head but that’s not to say we’re prohibited. Each scenario requires a dynamic response. Someone trying to stab you And causing genuine threat to your life (or another’s) is fair game for a headshot, whereas someone who’s just a bit bigger and harder wanting to fight is better off struck to the arms or legs. It basically all about ensuring that the force used is proportionate and being able to justify it.  My initial response to said video was to question exactly why it had been started at the point it was. The likelihood is that the kid who was struck probably not causing imminent threat to life - but we just can’t see so we can’t be 100% sure - we don’t know what he was doing. 
 

Rest assured I’d be feeling particularly uncomfortable if I were the officer in question and he’ll do well to justify his actions. I’m not a massive one for batons or spray in fact even when I was slashed across the hand I didn’t then use my baton - although my colleague did!

There are massive bellends in policing as there are all occupations, but there are some really nice guys too. Sadly though some people can’t see past the uniform and have an unnatural hatred for us - and to be fair videos like this one don’t do a lot to help. But I’m a nice guy and fortunately now working on homicide, I like to think the majority of my confrontational days are behind me.

 

Thanks for the reply. 
You are excused the delay due to reasons of wife & alcohol (never a good mix)! 
 

So the way I read that, is that this policeman in question would have received training to only use a baton to the head if there was a serious threat to life (whether his or someone else’s). 
I would therefore call into major question why he deemed this an appropriate situation for such brutal force. 
 

You are correct that the initial video didn’t show context, but I think it’s pretty clear that this is just a minor scrap. Thus is very excessive. 
I couldn’t really give a damn for this kid involved, he’s involved in a scrap at football (seemingly alongside his dad) and so is probably a little shit with a bad parent, but the action does not fit the situation here. 
I’ve witnessed police bopping fans on the head when they were simply in a police escort. Definitely not a life threatening situation for the officers concerned. If the training says not to do this, why does it happen so often? Is it simple flouting of policy, or is it an individual officer in panic mode, or is it something more sinister (ie, they know they can get away with it)? 

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For full disclosure - I was the one who made the official complaint v Millwall.

It was dismissed as the evidence was 'on video only' - no-one came forward as an eye witness in person. 

Yet the Police can use CCTV against you - don't know why it wasn't the same for the Police Office using his baton on the Millwall fans head.

 

Lets be clear here, this was a mum, Dad and kid walking along the road after some very minor confrontation that the kid was involved in. Was he a thug? Maybe. I doubt any thug takes his middle/older aged parents out for a shot of copper/opposition fan bashing though.

 

A female officer has him on the defensive with her own baton strikes. 

vgTykdsf-7zADMDn.jpg.b85fe23580fb343e308602c1e2a8fb43.jpg

 

A male officer runs TEN METERS and lays a life threatening strike to the head of a person who was already subdued. His mother is pushed into the road, his father is batonned to the ground.

There are no other people there besides the 3 members of the family and the Police.

In none of the many,many vids doing the rounds did I see any reason whatsoever to do this:

216B4E4C-BB3D-437C-9090-71B68FD8C6B8.thumb.jpeg.1ba23c08cf12107a831998d2c3a4fb44.jpeg.ae779f57958ed406350f2d5282c3ee93.jpeg

2 Police officers detained/assaulted/arrested (whatever words you want to use) a youth and his  2    50+ yr old adult parents by  hitting them repeatedly with batons (both males) and pushing the mother over into the road.

None of the 3 were armed. 2 were of course arrested.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

As an aside - Julie H was helpful in the MIllwall case and was a witness FOR BCFC fans v WMP, so she isn't the enemy here

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1 hour ago, SX227 said:

For full disclosure - I was the one who made the official complaint v Millwall.

It was dismissed as the evidence was 'on video only' - no-one came forward as an eye witness in person. 

Yet the Police can use CCTV against you - don't know why it wasn't the same for the Police Office using his baton on the Millwall fans head.

 

Lets be clear here, this was a mum, Dad and kid walking along the road after some very minor confrontation that the kid was involved in. Was he a thug? Maybe. I doubt any thug takes his middle/older aged parents out for a shot of copper/opposition fan bashing though.

 

A female officer has him on the defensive with her own baton strikes. 

vgTykdsf-7zADMDn.jpg.b85fe23580fb343e308602c1e2a8fb43.jpg

 

A male officer runs TEN METERS and lays a life threatening strike to the head of a person who was already subdued. His mother is pushed into the road, his father is batonned to the ground.

There are no other people there besides the 3 members of the family and the Police.

In none of the many,many vids doing the rounds did I see any reason whatsoever to do this:

216B4E4C-BB3D-437C-9090-71B68FD8C6B8.thumb.jpeg.1ba23c08cf12107a831998d2c3a4fb44.jpeg.ae779f57958ed406350f2d5282c3ee93.jpeg

2 Police officers detained/assaulted/arrested (whatever words you want to use) a youth and his  2    50+ yr old adult parents by  hitting them repeatedly with batons (both males) and pushing the mother over into the road.

None of the 3 were armed. 2 were of course arrested.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

As an aside - Julie H was helpful in the MIllwall case and was a witness FOR BCFC fans v WMP, so she isn't the enemy here

I made the point earlier to @JulieH about the Millwall incident. History now but another Police injustice. This particular incident hopefully will see the thugs (the Police Officers) brought to justice.....oh hang on....PS apols for referring to you as SX225 above....2 cc less than your actual capacity..??

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7 hours ago, SX227 said:

For full disclosure - I was the one who made the official complaint v Millwall.

It was dismissed as the evidence was 'on video only' - no-one came forward as an eye witness in person. 

Yet the Police can use CCTV against you - don't know why it wasn't the same for the Police Office using his baton on the Millwall fans head.

 

Lets be clear here, this was a mum, Dad and kid walking along the road after some very minor confrontation that the kid was involved in. Was he a thug? Maybe. I doubt any thug takes his middle/older aged parents out for a shot of copper/opposition fan bashing though.

 

A female officer has him on the defensive with her own baton strikes. 

vgTykdsf-7zADMDn.jpg.b85fe23580fb343e308602c1e2a8fb43.jpg

 

A male officer runs TEN METERS and lays a life threatening strike to the head of a person who was already subdued. His mother is pushed into the road, his father is batonned to the ground.

There are no other people there besides the 3 members of the family and the Police.

In none of the many,many vids doing the rounds did I see any reason whatsoever to do this:

216B4E4C-BB3D-437C-9090-71B68FD8C6B8.thumb.jpeg.1ba23c08cf12107a831998d2c3a4fb44.jpeg.ae779f57958ed406350f2d5282c3ee93.jpeg

2 Police officers detained/assaulted/arrested (whatever words you want to use) a youth and his  2    50+ yr old adult parents by  hitting them repeatedly with batons (both males) and pushing the mother over into the road.

None of the 3 were armed. 2 were of course arrested.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

As an aside - Julie H was helpful in the MIllwall case and was a witness FOR BCFC fans v WMP, so she isn't the enemy here

Just to correct this. Your picture showing the female officer having him “on the defensive”, the kid who was struck on the head is not the one she is intervening with. 
That picture you showed is the dad and an opposition fan having a scrap. 
This is about 2 seconds AFTER the kid was struck on the head. So the male officer did not run 10 meters and hit an already subdued person. 
 

The evidence is quite clear what this copper did, so there’s no need to say what you’ve said - which is untrue. 
 

Yes, the male copper does run in and strike the kid on the head, but that happened before the pic you’ve posted. This is also an altercation between the dad and another fan, the kid got hit when he went to join in. So where you said this was only 3 family members and the police, that is also untrue. 
 

Just wanted to clear that up. 

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