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Bristol Rob

Police.

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People saying that he may have thrown something or was involved in trouble before the video as if this justifies the thug coppers reaction make me laugh.

As a bit of perspective, there was a vid doing the rounds about a year ago where a group of lads were hurling missiles at a tommy robinson march while the police stood by and watched. No heads cracked there. 

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7 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Has it ever occurred to you that @Fordy62 and other serving or even ex-Police Officers live a life outside of their uniformed daily working life.

Perhaps he grew up supporting City and still enjoys watching them.

If so, why should he not be allowed to post on this or any other football-related forum.

Incidentally, just for the record, and I am sure others on this forum would support me, I believe that our resident Woman Police Officer, @JulieH, is a friendly poster and, in addition, provides a helpful service: why wouldn't you want to 'tolerate' her?

Dont disagree with this Phil....but they shouldn't post stupid comments on here that could be taken the wrong way and wind people up...even if meant in jest. Could end up on social media and get read by their superiors. ...

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I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

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I am aware of incidents in other parts of the uk over the weekend involving police at football matches. As always social media does not always show the full picture and both police services have stated they are investigating.

i have always held the belief that until the whole incident can be investigated / viewed then it is not good to comment. 

it is a case of great frustration for me and my colleagues that only negative stuff from football matches is reported on both in the main stream press and social media, by that I mean disorder between fans/ police officers using batons / racist chanting. This occurs at a very small percentage of games, yet there is no desire by some to report on that . The recent Cardiff game for instance , no arrests on the day no issues between both sets of fans, 1 isolated issue with 10 Cardiff fans post match and that is what makes the headlines! Very frustrating . 
not sure how to change it tbh, but we keep on trying to push positives in the hope there could be a headline ‘ football fans and police have no incidents at football match ‘ 😂
 

 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

Yes.

 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

I think we can safely say from the video of the aftermath that this kid hadn’t been stabbing people. I’m sure the police wouldn’t have been quite so bothered about the kids welfare (the police woman especially) if that had been the case and I am sure that the general public on the scene wouldn’t have been either.  Even the thug who did it looks like he realises he’s gone too far this time. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, lenred said:

I think we can safely say from the video of the aftermath that this kid hadn’t been stabbing people. I’m sure the police wouldn’t have been quite so bothered about the kids welfare (the police woman especially) if that had been the case and I am sure that the general public on the scene wouldn’t have been either.  Even the thug who did it looks like he realises he’s gone too far this time. 

 

 

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

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4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

I get the point completely but I think it’s safe to assume that he wasn’t carrying out those acts or anything like them, based upon the video evidence we have - especially of the aftermath where both the public and police look shocked and worried.  But essentially it’s a moot point I agree. Let’s hope the whole picture is found and the punishment is then appropriate for the force used - for both sides if necessary. 

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11 hours ago, Akira said:

You're an absolute belter. I'm sorry like, but are you for real?! 

You have seen the video of that copper charging him and cracking his skull with his baton, right? Or have I just seen another piece of magic editing...? 

Genuinely, would LOVE to hear your defence for him. You and he, are utterly disgusting. How you can defend that assault, I'll never know. Words fail. 

Shame on you. 

And twice in the past two months I've seen video on the news of police standing over someone who's lying prostrate on the ground, and shooting them dead.

As others have said, it's all about context, and we don't know that in this instance.

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56 minutes ago, lenred said:

I get the point completely but I think it’s safe to assume that he wasn’t carrying out those acts or anything like them, based upon the video evidence we have - especially of the aftermath where both the public and police look shocked and worried.  But essentially it’s a moot point I agree. Let’s hope the whole picture is found and the punishment is then appropriate for the force used - for both sides if necessary. 

Abso-bloody-exactly. 

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1 hour ago, JulieH said:

I am aware of incidents in other parts of the uk over the weekend involving police at football matches. As always social media does not always show the full picture and both police services have stated they are investigating.

i have always held the belief that until the whole incident can be investigated / viewed then it is not good to comment. 

it is a case of great frustration for me and my colleagues that only negative stuff from football matches is reported on both in the main stream press and social media, by that I mean disorder between fans/ police officers using batons / racist chanting. This occurs at a very small percentage of games, yet there is no desire by some to report on that . The recent Cardiff game for instance , no arrests on the day no issues between both sets of fans, 1 isolated issue with 10 Cardiff fans post match and that is what makes the headlines! Very frustrating . 
not sure how to change it tbh, but we keep on trying to push positives in the hope there could be a headline ‘ football fans and police have no incidents at football match ‘ 😂
 

 

You’re just as bad. 

That Millwall fan down here a couple of seasons ago took a baton to the head & nothing was done to the copper that did it.

In the video we had context, the guys at the front are being pushed and instead of pushing back like the others, one of your lot thought it acceptable to smash him over the head. 

 

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15 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Take any video of a police officer using a baton and if you edit it well it’ll look like over zealous policing. Utter bollocks video to start a debate upon. 

Questionable editing for certain, would like to know why, as there shouldn’t be anything to hide, unless........?

Although, could this level of force be used on Extinction Rebellion please?

Edited by East End Old Boy
To add second paragraph
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2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

Bol lox. Of course he hasn’t been stabbing people. If he had then the people stood around filming would have probably intervened. As for missing the point, I refer you to my post #51. Why are you defending this piece of shit?

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5 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

Bol lox. Of course he hasn’t been stabbing people. If he had then the people stood around filming would have probably intervened. As for missing the point, I refer you to my post #51. Why are you defending this piece of shit?

Maybe not stabbing but there is a reason the video was edited thats obvious.

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4 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

Bol lox. Of course he hasn’t been stabbing people. If he had then the people stood around filming would have probably intervened. As for missing the point, I refer you to my post #51. Why are you defending this piece of shit?

Show me where I’m defending him. I’m merely questioning why the video starts at the point it did.  Not exactly a fair trial is it? I accept it’s more than likely excessive force, but it is fact that we don’t know because of the fact it’s been edited like it has. 

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1 minute ago, Super said:

Maybe not stabbing but there is a reason the video was edited thats obvious.

So what do you think he did that deserved a bat round the head?

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3 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

So what do you think he did that deserved a bat round the head?

Not saying he deserved what he got. I guess a full investigation will determine what actually happened.

Edited by Super
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16 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Time to have a debate. Do you think police at football do a good job in difficult circumstances, make things worse by causing issues that didn't previously exist, or are in general, the biggest 'firm' in the country.

It was stumbling across this that made me wonder if this is typical of the police these days. I know that City fans have been unfairly treated in the past, for looking at this video, I would love to know the justification for what appears to be an horrific assault by a copper.

 

No They are bullies in the main I've seen and been on the end of treatment they wouldn't get away with without the uniform. 

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4 minutes ago, Super said:

Where did i say that?

You didn’t. Sorry Super. My piss is boiling slightly about this, apologies mate.

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2 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

You didn’t. Sorry Super. My piss is boiling slightly about this, apologies mate.

Sorry mate i misread your post a bit anyway!

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28 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Show me where I’m defending him. I’m merely questioning why the video starts at the point it did.  Not exactly a fair trial is it? I accept it’s more than likely excessive force, but it is fact that we don’t know because of the fact it’s been edited like it has. 

Fully understand what you are saying and to some degree defending a colleague Fordy, and this is in no way typical of Officers behaviour ,or a regular occurrence at football or anywhere else 

And you are absolutely right about what has happened in the lead up to the video

However , as officers are Specifically trained to avoid the head when wielding a baton and the way in which the officer ran in and used it with real intent / force

Either something most serious has happened in the immediate prelude to the start of the video or that officer has just lost his job and is looking at a trial and possible custodial

At the moment he runs in and wields the baton it appears the lad that’s struck is in a tussle with A N Other , possibly another officer


Reasonable force...........hmmmmmm

As you know the officer who strikes out has an (escalating) menu of options to use , and need to justify , from verbal , > physical force,>  use of ASP / CS / taser >>>>

To justify what he’s done at that moment , he’s going to need to have a very good reason - Put it this way , if the assailant wasn’t a police Officer and (Accepting it’s the starting point in the investigation) you’d just started to look at it , it doesn’t look good does it 

As it initially appears , I think I’d rather try and prosecute this than defend it !

This is the lads injury

 

216B4E4C-BB3D-437C-9090-71B68FD8C6B8.jpeg

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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24 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Show me where I’m defending him. I’m merely questioning why the video starts at the point it did.  Not exactly a fair trial is it? I accept it’s more than likely excessive force, but it is fact that we don’t know because of the fact it’s been edited like it has. 

Well first off you said the video was”utter bollox” then you said that the victim may have been throwing a fire bomb (??) then you said what if he was stabbing people? Fu. Ck sake mate, can you see how that looks?

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fully understand what you are saying and to some degree defending a colleague Fordy, and this is in no way typical of Officers behaviour ,or a regular occurrence at football or anywhere else 

And you are absolutely right about what has happened in the lead up to the video

However , as officers are Specifically trained to avoid the head when wielding a baton and the way in which the officer ran in and used it with real intent / force

Either something most serious has happened in the immediate prelude to the start of the video or that officer has just lost his job and is looking at a trial and possible custodial

At the moment he runs in and wields the baton it appears the lad that’s struck is in a tussle with A N Other , possibly another officer

As you know the officer who strikes out has an (escalating) menu of options to use , and need to justify , from verbal , > physical force,>  use of ASP / CS / taser >>>>

To justify what he’s done at that moment , he’s going to need to have a very good reason - Put it this way , if the assailant wasn’t a police Officer and (Accepting it’s the starting point in the investigation) you’d just started to look at it , it doesn’t look good does it 

As it initially appears , I think I’d rather try and prosecute this than defend it !

This is the lads injury

 


 

 

 

 

 

216B4E4C-BB3D-437C-9090-71B68FD8C6B8.jpeg

Jesus f Ing Christ.  That’s a hell of a mess. 

Edited by lenred

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Clearly smashing someone in the head with a baton when you are not in immediate peril is potentially a serious criminal assult whether you are a serving police officer or not. That the posted footage was edited might mean there was an effort to misrepresent the incident, or it might mean nothing. Anyway, I'm sure the police will have multiple body cam footage of this incident, and there will be other CCTV footage avalable, which can be presented in court as evidence by either the defence or prosecution, depending on who's on trial and what the footage shows.

 

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2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Don’t be ridiculous. 

I don't understand what is ridiculous. You are suggesting that the police response should be based on the individuals alleged crime. Whack about the head for stabbing, baton on the arm for gbh, whack on the legs for throwing punches. THAT is ridiculous. Surely the police should use the appropriate level of restraint.

If you think he deserved a head whack because he might have been stabbing, then I despair and I think you are in the right force.

Override some training mind.

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18 minutes ago, lenred said:

Jesus f Ing Christ.  That’s a hell of a mess. 

It certainly is. Does anyone know if this lad has been arrested for the crime he committed?

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

Good god man.....let’s not start using terrorist situations to compare with some spotty teenager having a ruck at football.

regardless of likely context, the copper ran in and cracked the kid square on the head with a baton. I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure your training does not include almost lethal force to break up a scrap in the street.

Clearly this whole episode needs full investigation but looking at his injuries in the aftermath and the way the copper executed the blow, I’d be looking at GBH

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With what caused the situation aside I don’t think it is acceptable to hit someone full force on the head with a baton. Could kill someone and think deadly force is absolute last resort. I am not the best authority on police though as where I am from they shoot too many people but like most cases of brutality in the US this seems too far

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4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

With what caused the situation aside I don’t think it is acceptable to hit someone full force on the head with a baton. Could kill someone and think deadly force is absolute last resort. I am not the best authority on police though as where I am from they shoot too many people but like most cases of brutality in the US this seems too far

It depends.  I'd agree the circumstances where it would be reasonable to do that are very, very slim.  Other people being in immediate danger of serious injury would perhaps be one. 

It seems likely this was excessive force but then there aren't many good reasons for the video being cut to exclude everything the guy was doing beforehand so it's sensible that someone looks at the full picture before ordering the firing squad.

There are quite a few posters on here that immediately assume the worst of police and take the side of those involved in football violence every single time. 

There will be a few cases where the police are at fault and this could be one, there will be many many more when those who like to pretend they're hard and fight at football are at fault.

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1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

You’re just as bad. 

That Millwall fan down here a couple of seasons ago took a baton to the head & nothing was done to the copper that did it.

In the video we had context, the guys at the front are being pushed and instead of pushing back like the others, one of your lot thought it acceptable to smash him over the head. 

 

You have edited the thread containing that clip ;missing out the bit where the video was referred to the police complaints department by myself on behalf of the fans on this forum.

whether you agree with the decision on that occasion or not it was referred and investigated .

just to check, I am just as bad? As whom? The pc who is alleged to have hit a fan across the head? And that is based on the fact I am a police officer so therefore all police officers are the same in your opinion? 
 

everyone is entitled to an opinion and although I don’t agree with yours , you are entitled to air it 

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Over the years I've had coppers assault me, verbally abuse me, try and antagonize me looking for a physical reaction, threatened with arrest for genuinely walking in the wrong direction at a stadium and been arrested for witnessing a crime and daring to stick around to give a statement. The crime i witnessed was an assault, and by arresting me and other witnesses our statements has less weight in court as they were no longer deemed neutral. As the assault was by someone on a football fan, guess what? the only people arrested was the football fan who got assaulted and the witnesses. The only person not arrested and ending up in court was the person who committed the crime.

I mean this from with all my heart, the police in this country can get f'ed! You think that a copper coming on here acting all friendly wont hang you out to dry given half the chance? I remember the old City copper Tommy pretending to be mates with everyone, he always seemed overly happy to start throwing his baton into City fans given half the chance.

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6 minutes ago, antlers said:

Over the years I've had coppers assault me, verbally abuse me, try and antagonize me looking for a physical reaction, threatened with arrest for genuinely walking in the wrong direction at a stadium and been arrested for witnessing a crime and daring to stick around to give a statement. The crime i witnessed was an assault, and by arresting me and other witnesses our statements has less weight in court as they were no longer deemed neutral. As the assault was by someone on a football fan, guess what? the only people arrested was the football fan who got assaulted and the witnesses. The only person not arrested and ending up in court was the person who committed the crime.

I mean this from with all my heart, the police in this country can get f'ed! You think that a copper coming on here acting all friendly wont hang you out to dry given half the chance? I remember the old City copper Tommy pretending to be mates with everyone, he always seemed overly happy to start throwing his baton into City fans given half the chance.

Over my years following the City I’ve never been assaulted by a copper, or any of the other acts you mention.

I’m just a fan who has been going to games since the 1970’s, I’m not a copper, and for the record I was born and brought up in a council house in the heartland of City support.

I guess it’s all a matter of choice.

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20 minutes ago, Nibor said:

It depends.  I'd agree the circumstances where it would be reasonable to do that are very, very slim.  Other people being in immediate danger of serious injury would perhaps be one. 

It seems likely this was excessive force but then there aren't many good reasons for the video being cut to exclude everything the guy was doing beforehand so it's sensible that someone looks at the full picture before ordering the firing squad.

There are quite a few posters on here that immediately assume the worst of police and take the side of those involved in football violence every single time. 

There will be a few cases where the police are at fault and this could be one, there will be many many more when those who like to pretend they're hard and fight at football are at fault.

For sure. Could have been justified just that it should be last resort. 

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19 minutes ago, JulieH said:

You have edited the thread containing that clip ;missing out the bit where the video was referred to the police complaints department by myself on behalf of the fans on this forum.

whether you agree with the decision on that occasion or not it was referred and investigated .

just to check, I am just as bad? As whom? The pc who is alleged to have hit a fan across the head? And that is based on the fact I am a police officer so therefore all police officers are the same in your opinion? 
 

everyone is entitled to an opinion and although I don’t agree with yours , you are entitled to air it 

Let’s be honest, the decision to take no further action in that particular incident was utterly disgraceful. The victim was clearly being pushed from behind and wasn’t being aggressive.

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1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

Good god man.....let’s not start using terrorist situations to compare with some spotty teenager having a ruck at football.

I think you know full well that example was used in relation to context and us not having the full picture. 

Quote

regardless of likely context, the copper ran in and cracked the kid square on the head with a baton. I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure your training does not include almost lethal force to break up a scrap in the street.

you’re right. Force has to be proportionate. This probably wasn’t. But fact is, with the video edited in such a fashion, we don’t know. 

Quote

 

Clearly this whole episode needs full investigation but looking at his injuries in the aftermath and the way the copper executed the blow, I’d be looking at GBH

It does indeed. And by all accounts it is. And for the record... so would I. 

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1 hour ago, Gakoe said:

It certainly is. Does anyone know if this lad has been arrested for the crime he committed?

He would have been... well, he will have been interviewed about his actions the led up to him being batoned, but you don’t tend to automatically get arrested nowadays like you used to seven or eight years ago. Because he will have needed immediate medical attention, the justifications for arrest may have been removed... but he’ll definitely be investigated. 

Edited by Fordy62

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In a week where heading a football is being scrutinised due the damage it can cause you get this. 
 

Why is it only at football they have batons? I’ve seen many a group fighting in the city centre after a night out. No batons in site just 6/7 police officers pulling apart the group and arresting them. In that video their was absolutely no need for the officer to strike that fan. Could have quite easily rugby tackled him and diffused the situation that way. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

What was your opinion of the utter coward who clumped an obviously non aggressive Millwall fan outside AG and how an official complaint was swiftly dismissed by chief plod? Stuff like that doesn't help on the pr front although the average football fan isn't a demographic ob is too concerned about being on side with. 

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Here's the incident without the editing jumps.

It seems fairly clear that there's a tussle going on between 2 people, whereupon the brave officer runs at least 5 metres to greivously assult one of the protagonists from behind. It's quite obvious that's nothing like reasonable force and that the kid isn't stabbing anyone, or a terrorist.

The bloke who kicks out at the horrible bastard is apparently the kid's dad trying to get him off him. He has of course been arrested for this 'assault', doubtlessly the coward with the baton has not.

Edited by Stortz
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7 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Here's the incident without the editing jumps.

It seems fairly clear that there's a tussle going on between 2 people, whereupon the brave officer runs at least 10 metres to greivously assult one of the protaganists from behind. It's quite obvious that's nothing like reasonable force and that the kid isn't stabbing anyone, or a terrorist.

The bloke who kicks out at the horrible bastard is apparently the kid's dad trying to get him off him. He has of course been arrested for this 'assault', doubtlessly the coward with the baton has not.

Oh dear 

 

Add The Policewoman hitting the older bloke with her baton whilst he’s defenceless on the floor might also take some explaining and the main protagonist carries on swinging his baton after the first blow

With the force he hit him with this could easily have caused life threatening injury

Panicking , adrenaline......and out of their depth

Cops do a great job but that’s Disgraceful

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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Generally speaking I think the police do a superb job. Indeed, under intense provocation they seem to have super-human powers. If anyone spat at me in my face they would be smashed to oblivion by fist rather than baton.

Like all professions they have loose cannons. To tar all the Police by the actions of the very few is massively unfair. As several have said on the thread A&S Police, as D&C Police are pretty good. Those of a certain age will, however, remember the seeming complete nutter of a superintendent who ‘policed’ the divide on the Park End - so even A&S had their Mavericks.

What does worry me, far more than the odd rogue PC, is what appears totally biased policing in protecting those involved with illegal fox hunting. The Police need to be very careful, when the general public perceive that officers are being controlled and manipulated by the rich and powerful, then their public support starts to evaporate. Over 85% of the public are against fox hunting, time the Police Federation stood up to prevent their profession being brought into disrepute. 

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Wow. That cop is off his head. He could easily have killed the young lad. Surely they must be trained and know the dangers of cracking someone like that. He needs a spell in the nick for that.

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1 hour ago, Galway Red said:

It is truly embarrassing how some are trying to defend this

It’s embaressing defending it but i don’t think anyone was intending to defend it. I think it’s just got confused with trying to explain nobody knew what was happening in the 20-30 seconds before the video starts. 

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Interesting though that many of us manage to diffuse violent and aggressive situations in work without needing to hit people around the head with a baton. 

Edited by BristolCity1992

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1 minute ago, BristolCity1992 said:

Interesting though that many of us manage to diffuse violent and aggressive situations in work without needing to hit people around the head with baton. 

What sort of work do you do if you don’t mind me asking? 

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