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Bristol Rob

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1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

???

Ive batoned many a child. Obviously!

Just the answer we expected. Whatever was "done" with the footage,  to strike someone on the head with a baton is assault. It could kill someone. If a strike has to be made surely it's done around the legs or arms ??? ...Here we go again, Millwall at our place couple of seasons ago....sweep sweep under the carpet.... 

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2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Take any video of a police officer using a baton and if you edit it well it’ll look like over zealous policing. Utter bollocks video to start a debate upon. 

Genuine question Fordy. 
Are the police taught/encouraged to use their baton to strike the body/arms/legs, or are they taught to strike the head? 

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39 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What if the video initially showed said kid throwing a fire bomb at the old bill?

I’m absolutely not saying it did, but editing a video to start exactly there is done for one reason only.  

Yeah fair enough,  fully accept that something may well have happened before that. However if something did then it needs to be something pretty full on to deserve that response. It was brutal. 

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3 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Time to have a debate. Do you think police at football do a good job in difficult circumstances, make things worse by causing issues that didn't previously exist, or are in general, the biggest 'firm' in the country.

It was stumbling across this that made me wonder if this is typical of the police these days. I know that City fans have been unfairly treated in the past, for looking at this video, I would love to know the justification for what appears to be an horrific assault by a copper.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Take any video of a police officer using a baton and if you edit it well it’ll look like over zealous policing. Utter bollocks video to start a debate upon. 

You're an absolute belter. I'm sorry like, but are you for real?! 

You have seen the video of that copper charging him and cracking his skull with his baton, right? Or have I just seen another piece of magic editing...? 

Genuinely, would LOVE to hear your defence for him. You and he, are utterly disgusting. How you can defend that assault, I'll never know. Words fail. 

Shame on you. 

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Frankly, I can't understand why the police are tolerated on this forum tbh, and often welcomed with open arms by many posters.

And to clarify, I have much respect for the demanding job the police do outside of football, but within the realm of football the law and police are against fans. Proven countless times over. Don't hold any hopes for coppers being punished for beating up fans when that coward Duckenfield got not guilty for Hillsborough. 

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2 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

Frankly, I can't understand why the police are tolerated on this forum tbh, and often welcomed with open arms by many posters.

And to clarify, I have much respect for the demanding job the police do outside of football, but within the realm of football the law and police are against fans. Proven countless times over. Don't hold any hopes for coppers being punished for beating up fans when that coward Duckenfield got not guilty for Hillsborough. 

Has it ever occurred to you that @Fordy62 and other serving or even ex-Police Officers live a life outside of their uniformed daily working life.

Perhaps he grew up supporting City and still enjoys watching them.

If so, why should he not be allowed to post on this or any other football-related forum.

Incidentally, just for the record, and I am sure others on this forum would support me, I believe that our resident Woman Police Officer, @JulieH, is a friendly poster and, in addition, provides a helpful service: why wouldn't you want to 'tolerate' her?

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4 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Time to have a debate. Do you think police at football do a good job in difficult circumstances, make things worse by causing issues that didn't previously exist, or are in general, the biggest 'firm' in the country.

 

 

I've generally have had no problem with A&S and found them fair-minded. I'm not sure fans can say that about all forces.

The Met and South Yorkshire are the biggest bunches of bullies in my experience. However, it is only a minority even there. Unfortunately, the hierarchy tends to back up the bad apples too often. They have a bit of a Catholic Church style denial thing going on.

On a side note, I do appreciate @JulieH posting on this forum. She explains operational decisions clearly, doesn't bullshit and does what she can to feed back fan opinion to those higher up the command chain.  She also takes the ribbing and even occasional hostility (there's all sorts on here, let's face it) pretty well. 

I can't remember ever reading official police liaison on a football forum ever before, so I think it's pretty good we have it now.

As to the general question of "do we need as many police at football matches?" the answer is we're a hostage to the bad behaviour of the past. And every so often, you can see that there is still the potential for in-stadium violence to creep back into the game.

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18 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Has it ever occurred to you that @Fordy62 and other serving or even ex-Police Officers live a life outside of their uniformed daily working life.

Perhaps he grew up supporting City and still enjoys watching them.

If so, why should he not be allowed to post on this or any other football-related forum.

Incidentally, just for the record, and I am sure others on this forum would support me, I believe that our resident Woman Police Officer, @JulieH, is a friendly poster and, in addition, provides a helpful service: why wouldn't you want to 'tolerate' her?

Believe it or not, yes it has occurred to me, and I will repeat the initial statement that I respect much of the work done by the police. My post was not meant in some kind of ACAB manner - I had hoped my post would be treated as part of a wider, sensible dialogue. The fact that you're even tagging in serving or former police is bizarre (guess what, they will read a thread titled POLICE, they don't need a milk monitor to point it out). 

I shall also repeat my belief that the law and police are loaded against football fans - if you disbelieve that, then I'd love to have a snort of whatever you're on. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's ample evidence to support my thinking. In fact, this is one of those rare times where I feel it's not even necessary to back up such a claim because the evidence is so well known. And at this point, I shall finish by repeating the word: Duckenfield.

Have a great night in cuckoo land! 

 

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45 minutes ago, Akira said:

You're an absolute belter. I'm sorry like, but are you for real?! 

You have seen the video of that copper charging him and cracking his skull with his baton, right? Or have I just seen another piece of magic editing...? 

Genuinely, would LOVE to hear your defence for him. You and he, are utterly disgusting. How you can defend that assault, I'll never know. Words fail. 

Shame on you. 

He hasn't defended it you dopey ***.

He's merely pointed out what anyone with an ounce of sense can see and that is that the video shows no context so cannot be used to judge if what was done was disproportionate or not. 

I bet you are one of those picks who reads about a court judgement in the tabloids and thinks they are then fit to comment on the case despite hearing precisely **** all of the evidence. 

Belter. 

 

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5 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

Believe it or not, yes it has occurred to me, and I will repeat the initial statement that I respect much of the work done by the police. You stated quite clearly that you have respect for the demanding job the Police do outside football and, on this point, we clearly agree. My post was not meant in some kind of ACAB manner - I never inferred that it was, nor did I wish to insinuate in my response that you harboured any ACAB thoughts/feelings: my argument was simply that I see no reason why serving or ex-Police Officers should not be tolerated on this or any other football-related forum - nothing more, nothing less - I had hoped my post would be treated as part of a wider, sensible dialogue Why not?. The fact that you're even tagging in serving or former police is bizarre. I didn't intend to 'tag' the Police Officers to whom I referred - I just found this the best means of stating their names. 

I shall also repeat my belief that the law and police are loaded against football fans - if you disbelieve that, then I'd love to have a snort of whatever you're on. When I was (much) younger, I used to follow City home and away - the usual Rovers (Tote End), Swindon (Town End), Villa, Wolves, Birmingham etc. and even Millwall (where our group of four received a Police Escort out of the old Den to our car for committing the sin of cheering City - but that is another story), and I had my share of run-ins with the local Police. Of course, I was much younger then as I said, and quite cocky with it too, so probably deserved what I got. Now I am older and, hopefully, wiser and more mature, I find that I never have problems with the Police whenever I watch City - home or away: perhaps there is some correllation. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's ample evidence to support my thinking. In fact, this is one of those rare times where I feel it's not even necessary to back up such a claim because the evidence is so well known. And at this point, I shall finish by repeating the word: Duckenfield. Clearly, Hillsborough and its unfortunate aftermath is a totally different subject. 

Have a great night in cuckoo land! Unfortunate and probably not necessary, but no offence taken.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Take any video of a police officer using a baton and if you edit it well it’ll look like over zealous policing. Utter bollocks video to start a debate upon. 

 

As someone who knows a thing or two about policing..... You are talking rubbish.

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This copper is obviously a thug, if you are going to charge in with a stick then surely hit him around the body, it sends shivers down my spine the thought of anyone in any situation should hit anyone over the head with a blunt instrument, how any goon can defend this assault is beyond me

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People saying that he may have thrown something or was involved in trouble before the video as if this justifies the thug coppers reaction make me laugh.

As a bit of perspective, there was a vid doing the rounds about a year ago where a group of lads were hurling missiles at a tommy robinson march while the police stood by and watched. No heads cracked there. 

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7 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Has it ever occurred to you that @Fordy62 and other serving or even ex-Police Officers live a life outside of their uniformed daily working life.

Perhaps he grew up supporting City and still enjoys watching them.

If so, why should he not be allowed to post on this or any other football-related forum.

Incidentally, just for the record, and I am sure others on this forum would support me, I believe that our resident Woman Police Officer, @JulieH, is a friendly poster and, in addition, provides a helpful service: why wouldn't you want to 'tolerate' her?

Dont disagree with this Phil....but they shouldn't post stupid comments on here that could be taken the wrong way and wind people up...even if meant in jest. Could end up on social media and get read by their superiors. ...

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I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

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I am aware of incidents in other parts of the uk over the weekend involving police at football matches. As always social media does not always show the full picture and both police services have stated they are investigating.

i have always held the belief that until the whole incident can be investigated / viewed then it is not good to comment. 

it is a case of great frustration for me and my colleagues that only negative stuff from football matches is reported on both in the main stream press and social media, by that I mean disorder between fans/ police officers using batons / racist chanting. This occurs at a very small percentage of games, yet there is no desire by some to report on that . The recent Cardiff game for instance , no arrests on the day no issues between both sets of fans, 1 isolated issue with 10 Cardiff fans post match and that is what makes the headlines! Very frustrating . 
not sure how to change it tbh, but we keep on trying to push positives in the hope there could be a headline ‘ football fans and police have no incidents at football match ‘ ?
 

 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I think you’re all missing the point here. Hitting someone over the head is a pretty damn high level of force. It could be lethal. 

But you can’t start a balanced debate on excessive force when you don’t know what occurred immediately prior. Its not quite so excessive if he’d Just been stabbing people is it?

In my job I’m used to looking at the whole picture. And this very much isn’t the whole picture. 

Ive never batoned anyone on any part of their body. I’ve never had to use my CS spray, but fact is we can’t tell if this head shot is justified or not because of the way it’s been edited. 

I think we can safely say from the video of the aftermath that this kid hadn’t been stabbing people. I’m sure the police wouldn’t have been quite so bothered about the kids welfare (the police woman especially) if that had been the case and I am sure that the general public on the scene wouldn’t have been either.  Even the thug who did it looks like he realises he’s gone too far this time. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, lenred said:

I think we can safely say from the video of the aftermath that this kid hadn’t been stabbing people. I’m sure the police wouldn’t have been quite so bothered about the kids welfare (the police woman especially) if that had been the case and I am sure that the general public on the scene wouldn’t have been either.  Even the thug who did it looks like he realises he’s gone too far this time. 

 

 

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

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4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s unlikely that he’d been stabbing people, but the point was that if you can’t see why he was struck round the head then we don’t have the whole picture. Fact is, it is more than likely excessive, but we don’t know for sure. 
 

Taken out of context the London Bridge Terror attack looks like a police officer just executed some lying on the floor. 

I get the point completely but I think it’s safe to assume that he wasn’t carrying out those acts or anything like them, based upon the video evidence we have - especially of the aftermath where both the public and police look shocked and worried.  But essentially it’s a moot point I agree. Let’s hope the whole picture is found and the punishment is then appropriate for the force used - for both sides if necessary. 

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