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La Plage

50+ players. Really!!

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As I have tried to say several times, LJ is what he is some love, some hate. However no tactics no best 11 and certainly no plan B c d e f g, that is the real issue. Get someone in he can learn these things from or get rid. Yes we’re skating round the play off but unfortunately our “luck” bucket is getting empty, anyone else could have seen that amongst the 2100 at QPR to see we stole the Crown Jewels that day and all this winning team blah blah blah is deluded it was the same lightweight midfield that was crying out for our new foreign saviour. NW proven 17 goals in the championship and doesn’t start, fing bonkers. Can we all not just see regardless of league place, Johnson out, better do better he needs to starts leading this bloody squad of 50 players pick his best team/ formation work on the basics all week in training and get on with it, pick players who can pass it forward and not side back side back side back side back to defence woooooooshhhhh.KP dropped again, the only true flair player we have, can’t take off 2 defenders then absorb our only outlet NE and expect him to track back, get rid of the blackmail material AW has on you and move on too many passengers and not enough quality deliveries at set pieces. Act now or I feel that Rooney destroying our midfield wed and an away day at Elland road will be too much for even your luck bucket Mr J.

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Two managers appointed to their respective clubs around the same time as Johnson, and have had the same number of transfer windows :

Chris Wilder - Sheff Utd - Signed 59 players. 
Nigel Clough - Burton - Signed 62 players. 
 

Signing 50 players over 4 years is nothing unusual. 

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Blackburn Rovers over the same period = 53 players. 
 

I could go on .......

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7 hours ago, Dredd said:

Wilders got two promotions out of his 59 players. 

And that’s the point. We may have improved slowly over time, but we appear to have hit a wall over the last couple of seasons, despite a near complete change of playing personnel in the past 2 years.

Do we look any more likely as playoff candidates than we did then? In a word “No” but we have sold a number of players for a decent profit. That almost seems more important than promotion, especially when you remember how many players we have out on loan, few if any of which will get anywhere near the first team as we continue to buy or loan in players (is Berkovic really an improvement on Taylor Moore?)

Preston by contrast have had similar fortunes to us but still have Pearson, Barkhuizen and Johnson in midfield, so the reality is that not every “smaller” club in this division has to keep churning through players, but can instead keep their best ones.

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7 hours ago, Harry said:

Blackburn Rovers over the same period = 53 players. 
 

I could go on .......

Try comparing the players signed by Blackburn and ours Harry in that period

Age / fees etc

No comparison and a lazy one tbh

 

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Try comparing the players signed by Blackburn and ours Harry in that period

Age / fees etc

No comparison and a lazy one tbh

 

Nice you've done the research. Post the age and fee comparison between Blackburn and us for last 4 years please.

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12 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Nice you've done the research. Post the age and fee comparison between Blackburn and us for last 4 years please.

Transfermarket a good start

A revolutionary idea I realise , but hey you can then draw your own conclusions

Enjoy 👍

Edited by BobBobSuperBob

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All of the above only confirms that if we keep LJ then championship football will be watched at the gate next season. There have been so many posts in regards to  comparisons to other clubs on how many they have in their squad, what their squad cost etc, at the end of the day LJ has the best players available too him to succeed but I do not think he has the savvy to put the best he has available on the pitch. Some of the players we have now are like gold and if they had the chance would bring success but LJ only seems to think his way and not the way to bring out the gold we have at the club.

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4 minutes ago, Prinny said:

as i thought...

Try it

(Or you can use google if struggling)

Then see what you ‘think’

 

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11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Try it

(Or you can use google if struggling)

Then see what you ‘think’

 

You called someones research out as being lazy, then won't post the info.

Keep digging.

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Just pointing out that LJ is £29m in profit on his transfer dealings..........

Plus, how many of those he’s signed were for development and how many first team ready?

Just asking.................:cool2:
 

It’s an integral part of SLs policy of developing players and moving them on as a part of his ‘sustainability’.

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Like him or hate LJ can we all agree that this season he is being judged on his ability to get us into the playoffs. No excuses, no we have finished 1 point better than last year or one place higher.  Despite the terrible football at home,  I’m begrudgingly happy to get behind him and the team as long as come May, if we haven’t made the playoffs we all accept (even if begrudgingly) it’s time for change,  time to freshen things up with new ideas and direction.

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19 minutes ago, Prinny said:

You called someones research out as being lazy, then won't post the info.

Keep digging.

I said the comparison was a lazy one

As a newbie you repeatedly appear to demand people do your research and appear to try and look intellectual in your postings but come across as ........weird

Have a nice day 

 

Tip #2.  Rather than starting threads instructing LJ in lessons he needs to learn from you , Try educating yourself with a little research 

 

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So what do people want? Us to not sign players?

I don't get what the problem is.

Lansdown admitted they made some mistakes in their recruitment a few years back, which I am sure we can accept if they were to put that right.

Let's look at the last 4 windows

Maenpaa, Marinovic, Bentley, Gilmartin, Hunt, Pereira (loan), Dasilva (loan), Dasilva (perm), Rowe, Kalas (loan), Kalas (perm) Webster, Williams, Benkovic (loan)

Nagy, Massengo, Henriksen (loan), Watkins, Palmer (loan), Palmer (perm), Szmodics, Adelakun, 

Weimann, Afobe (loan), Wells, Eisa, Rodri.

Not many of those were bad signings. Marinovic and Rodri were just brought in as cover, and i'd say the one mistake there was making them anything but cover by starting them. Gilmartin is emergency cover, and I doubt will ever play. That's probably what Marinovic should have been, but he did only play the one game anyway.

Adelkuan might turn out to be a decent signing if he keeps doing well at Rotherham. Eisa we made a profit on. Good business at least. So 4 very good windows since start of 18/19 season imo.

In the windows before this under Johnson the signings were not all quite so good. But he took over a squad that was very poor. Needed improving badly.

I would say Steele, Pisano, Wright, Baker, Moore, Magnússon, Brownhill, Walsh, Cotterill (loan), O'Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson, Abraham (loan), Taylor, Diedhiou were a mixture of good to excellent signings. Impressive list that, actually.

Unfortunate signings were O'Neil and Djuric. Both injured too much but would have been good ones for where we were at the time - a lower championship side looking to progress up the league. Both certainly contributed though so not all bad.

Bad signings overall:

 Marinovic, Giefer (loan), Lucic, Matthews (loan), Ekstrand, Hegeler, Kent (loan), Leko (loan), Tomlin, Diony (loan), Engvall, Woodrow (loan), Rodri

Not a lot of harm done with some of those bad ones. And also some of the bad ones made sense at the time and just did not work out. Like Tomlin and Matthews who were both excellent when they came in on loan the previous season under Pemberton who LJ then managed when appointed in February.

Then there are the youth signings which are cheap, and a bit more of a lottery. Some decent ones there it seems like Bakinson and J smith, and maybe some not so good ones which will always happen. They're young, they have potential. But it doesn't mean they will definitely fulfil it.

Overall it looks very good to me! We were making more mistakes in our recruitment in LJ's first couple of windows, but even then we made some really good signings.

Apologies if any of that is inaccurate! I think I have got it right.

 

Edited by JonDolman
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15 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said:

Is it Johnson Out or Johnson In this week? I never manage to keep track of the movement...

🤷🏻‍♂️

Out 

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40 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Just pointing out that LJ is £29m in profit on his transfer dealings..........

Plus, how many of those he’s signed were for development and how many first team ready?

Just asking.................:cool2:
 

It’s an integral part of SLs policy of developing players and moving them on as a part of his ‘sustainability’.

I see this is your favourite post to repeat at the present time

Where are you sourcing these figures ?

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I said the comparison was a lazy one

As a newbie you repeatedly appear to demand people do your research and appear to try and look intellectual in your postings but come across as ........weird

Have a nice day 

 

Tip #2.  Rather than starting threads instructing LJ in lessons he needs to learn from you , Try educating yourself with a little research 

 

Please tell me and all of us why you think it's a lazy comparison :)

Trying to be condescending based on account age, is really weird. If you want to argue a point on an old thread please bring it up on that thread. Posting about it on this thread is very odd. Going through my profile and old posts just to try to justify why you didn't do any research on this thread, yet calling a comparison lazy is, again, kinda odd and embarrassing.

The only thing i learned from your post was that you don't actually do the research to make a post. What I've learned since then is that instead of just saying, "yeah I don't know what I'm talking about" you go to weird lengths trying to save face.

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I see this is your favourite post to repeat at the present time

Where are you sourcing these figures ?

Same place you are.. :laugh:

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Sorry chaps, my original point was aimed at what he does with the players at his disposal not the actual quantity.

4-5M£ player and probably one of our top earners not even in the squad again, who was signed permanently after spending a loan spell mostly on the bench???

Our “missing link” in midfield not starting against a much stronger and physical team and when we do change it finally bring on another player who always disappears during matches when we are trying to get back from 1-2.

A 17 goal championship striker on the bench when AW seems undroppable, without any idea how to give him service (see first point)

Our defence and midfield need to pass sideways/back (remind you of anyone?) 10 times before smashing in a long ball up to poor old Dave who by that time has at least 2 blokes at least his size all over him

Our main attacking outlet playing some kind of wingback role when we decided to take the left and right backs off taking off one of our most consistent players of in JD

So drawing comparisons to Sheffield United is a complete waist of time as their manager seems able to get the best out of his players.

 Rooney Wednesday will have a field day in the middle of that park then Elland road Saturday, interesting week ahead....

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Please tell me and all of us why you think it's a lazy comparison :)

Trying to be condescending based on account age, is really weird. If you want to argue a point on an old thread please bring it up on that thread. Posting about it on this thread is very odd. Going through my profile and old posts just to try to justify why you didn't do any research on this thread, yet calling a comparison lazy is, again, kinda odd and embarrassing.

The only thing i learned from your post was that you don't actually do the research to make a post. What I've learned since then is that instead of just saying, "yeah I don't know what I'm talking about" you go to weird lengths trying to save face.

Same place you are.. :laugh:

I have a feeling you are one to avoid but before I leave you to your strange postings I’ll point out the irony is I absolutely do my research 

So when you try and look a smart arse by posting ‘Same place as you (laugh)’ , the irony is , I’ve certainly done my research hence why I asked to clarify with the poster where he sourced his figures.........ironic eh

 

Which all in all makes you look a bit of.....a.......Plum

Have a nice day 😁

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12 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I see this is your favourite post to repeat at the present time

Where are you sourcing these figures ?

Sky from the Birmingham game talked about it

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I have a feeling you are one to avoid but before I leave you to your strange postings I’ll point out the irony is I absolutely do my research 

So when you try and look a smart arse by posting ‘Same place as you (laugh)’ , the irony is , I’ve certainly done my research hence why I asked to clarify with the poster where he sourced his figures.........ironic eh

 

Which all in all makes you look a bit of.....a.......Plum

Have a nice day 😁

I mean only one of us is going through the others profile to attempt to put down the other. I'm glad you're doing it publicly. It's a good look for you.

I'm just asking you to prove your point by posting the research you've done. 

Still waiting. Keep digging. Still waiting.

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17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I see this is your favourite post to repeat at the present time

Where are you sourcing these figures ?

According to Transfermarkt he’s made a profit of around £21 mill since he came to us, obviously nearly all of the fees nowadays are undisclosed so that fully depends on what fees they believe we got for players and how much they believe we spent on players. You also need to take in to that wages, signing on fees and agent fees as well but as a base sum that is pretty impressive reading I’d say. 
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/alletransfers/verein/698 There’s the link if you want to look through yourself

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Just pointing out that LJ is £29m in profit on his transfer dealings..........

Plus, how many of those he’s signed were for development and how many first team ready?

Just asking.................:cool2:
 

It’s an integral part of SLs policy of developing players and moving them on as a part of his ‘sustainability’.

Although the patronising tone is not needed this is spot on.

The model is very much to buy potential and trade profits whilst hopefully improving the first team squad.

There has not been much hit and hope in the signings where there may have been at some other high player turnover clubs.

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13 minutes ago, La Plage said:

Sorry chaps, my original point was aimed at what he does with the players at his disposal not the actual quantity.

4-5M£ player and probably one of our top earners not even in the squad again, who was signed permanently after spending a loan spell mostly on the bench???

Our “missing link” in midfield not starting against a much stronger and physical team and when we do change it finally bring on another player who always disappears during matches when we are trying to get back from 1-2.

A 17 goal championship striker on the bench when AW seems undroppable, without any idea how to give him service (see first point)

Our defence and midfield need to pass sideways/back (remind you of anyone?) 10 times before smashing in a long ball up to poor old Dave who by that time has at least 2 blokes at least his size all over him

Our main attacking outlet playing some kind of wingback role when we decided to take the left and right backs off taking off one of our most consistent players of in JD

So drawing comparisons to Sheffield United is a complete waist of time as their manager seems able to get the best out of his players.

 Rooney Wednesday will have a field day in the middle of that park then Elland road Saturday, interesting week ahead....

 

 

I think the last game was poor. Our midfield seemed strangely too attacking, not close enough to Korey. And the really weird thing was we were 1-0 up, so no need to be playing like we were. I think we maybe thought we could go on and destroy them. Not respecting their quality enough maybe.

As for Palmer, I think the mistake we made was trusting in Afobe to stay fit. Had he stayed fit then no doubt we would have seen plenty of Palmer this season.

We should have maybe have invested in another Afobe type, or like Wells type in the summer.

But then even with Diedhiuou up top, not Palmer's type of striker to feed, Palmer has to still do more than he has when given the opportunities.

One problem I had with the Palmer signing is that he hasn't really shown much progression from when he was probably about 19-20 at Huddersfield. 

If he has not improved much at all in that time, then he might not ever get much better. When signing a 22 year old, it's not just how good the player is now, it's how good they can become. But if he isn't showing any progression in his game, then I am worried he won't ever improve.

But to be fair he was excellent in some of those early games. And even the odd game like Brentford away when we had Semenyo up top with Weimann. Palmer may have missed a sitter, but he really showed his quality.

4 million is a lot. But like Charlton game when he came on and changed the game, he CAN clearly do things not many can at this level. When he is confident and in the right set up he is class at this level.

The Wells signing is I believe to partly get Palmer back in the side. I didn't mind him not playing Wells last game as I thought we have won 4 in a row. It was always a difficult decision for LJ. 

I expect to see some changes for Derby game.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

According to Transfermarkt he’s made a profit of around £21 mill since he came to us, obviously nearly all of the fees nowadays are undisclosed so that fully depends on what fees they believe we got for players and how much they believe we spent on players. You also need to take in to that wages, signing on fees and agent fees as well but as a base sum that is pretty impressive reading I’d say. 
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/alletransfers/verein/698 There’s the link if you want to look through yourself

That's quite incredible. What a job he's done there.

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12 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

According to Transfermarkt he’s made a profit of around £21 mill since he came to us, obviously nearly all of the fees nowadays are undisclosed so that fully depends on what fees they believe we got for players and how much they believe we spent on players. You also need to take in to that wages, signing on fees and agent fees as well but as a base sum that is pretty impressive reading I’d say. 
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/alletransfers/verein/698 There’s the link if you want to look through yourself

I already had - but thanks anyway , and before I posted , but thanks anyway

 

FWIW Even if he maintained those profit levels (Remember that he inherited a lot of those players now sold to enhance those figures) £5 million a year won’t be sustaining us any time soon and Mr L will need to keep digging deep

People also conveniently forget the signing on fees, agents fees, relocation fees, family fees and, loan fees we’ve spent 

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I already had - but thanks anyway , and before I posted , but thanks anyway

 

FWIW Even if he maintained those profit levels (Remember that he inherited a lot of those players now sold to enhance those figures) £5 million a year won’t be sustaining us any time soon and Mr L will need to keep digging deep

People also conveniently forget the signing on fees, agents fees, relocation fees, family fees and, loan fees we’ve spent 

5 mill a year won’t sustain us I agree, but it’s certainly a step in the right direction. I’d imagine the stadium also makes a massive profit every year as well, so that should make a bit of a difference. 
 

I did add in about different fees as well as they’re bound to have an affect, but even with them we’ll have still made a healthy profit since he came here, a much healthier profit on transfers than probably any club in the league, bar Brentford. 

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44 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

According to Transfermarkt he’s made a profit of around £21 mill since he came to us, obviously nearly all of the fees nowadays are undisclosed so that fully depends on what fees they believe we got for players and how much they believe we spent on players. You also need to take in to that wages, signing on fees and agent fees as well but as a base sum that is pretty impressive reading I’d say. 
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/alletransfers/verein/698 There’s the link if you want to look through yourself

 

31 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

That's quite incredible. What a job he's done there.

If that’s ‘ Incredible’.    .....

Try researching Brentford........

Same period , they’ve made £50.1 million in trading , have. A lower wage bill and I’d suggest far more saleable value assets at the present time,

Preston , often considered alongside us , ‘only’  £14.6m in profit on trading but a far lower wage bill and sustainability over ours

 

(Love a bit of research me @Prinny - shall I prepare an excel spreadsheet and accompanying PowerPoint for you hon ? 😆)

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If that’s Incredible .....

Try researching Brentford........

Same period , they’ve made £50.1 million in trading , have. A lower wage bill and I’d suggest far more saleable value assets at the present time, and a lower wage bill

Preston , often considered alongside us , ‘only’  £14.6 in profit on trading but a far lower wage bill and sustainability over ours

Brentford's recruitment has been excellent for years, not taking anything away from them but I think one factor that helps them is being London based. Especially when recruiting foreign players.

 

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9 hours ago, La Plage said:

As I have tried to say several times, LJ is what he is some love, some hate. However no tactics no best 11 and certainly no plan B c d e f g, that is the real issue. Get someone in he can learn these things from or get rid. Yes we’re skating round the play off but unfortunately our “luck” bucket is getting empty, anyone else could have seen that amongst the 2100 at QPR to see we stole the Crown Jewels that day and all this winning team blah blah blah is deluded it was the same lightweight midfield that was crying out for our new foreign saviour. NW proven 17 goals in the championship and doesn’t start, fing bonkers. Can we all not just see regardless of league place, Johnson out, better do better he needs to starts leading this bloody squad of 50 players pick his best team/ formation work on the basics all week in training and get on with it, pick players who can pass it forward and not side back side back side back side back to defence woooooooshhhhh.KP dropped again, the only true flair player we have, can’t take off 2 defenders then absorb our only outlet NE and expect him to track back, get rid of the blackmail material AW has on you and move on too many passengers and not enough quality deliveries at set pieces. Act now or I feel that Rooney destroying our midfield wed and an away day at Elland road will be too much for even your luck bucket Mr J.

Kasey Palmer........ILL.  Adnittedley, our midfield is lightweight, we missed Brownhill, here's hoping the physical presence and ability of Henriksen will help.    Have to say, I thought LJ;s team selection and substitutions on Friday, were very poor.  I'm happy to stick with LJ until the end of the season, and then whatever the outcome, it will be time to reassess. It's all very well suggesting he should be sacked?......but I have yet to hear a truly viable replacement named ?  If it should happen, then it will take a lot of time. research and analysis to find a suitable candidate, it is not something that can be rushed.  However, if things work out LJ could yet be here for another 4 years?

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1 hour ago, City oz said:

Out 

Well LJ is either in or out but he dont know  how to shake it all about. 😜

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think the last game was poor. Our midfield seemed strangely too attacking, not close enough to Korey. And the really weird thing was we were 1-0 up, so no need to be playing like we were. I think we maybe thought we could go on and destroy them. Not respecting their quality enough maybe.
I really thought Henriksen would have started, we have needed more solidity and bite, maybe a little experience in the middle. I accept he may not have been match fit, but surely could have done 45 minutes. Could be a change Vs Derby (AKA Wayne Rooney's Derby County)

As for Palmer, I think the mistake we made was trusting in Afobe to stay fit. Had he stayed fit then no doubt we would have seen plenty of Palmer this season. Agree with the second part , not sure he had been injury prone over the previous couple of years though.

We should have maybe have invested in another Afobe type, or like Wells type in the summer. I do think they tried, and in some respects it makes the Wells signing look a little like desperation as they wouldn't pay the fees or wages in the summer for targets. I have no inside knowledge apart from results, but with the amount in wages that has been bandied about for Wells, and the fact we paid £4m for a 29 YO would probably bright a few more targets into contention.

But then even with Diedhiuou up top, not Palmer's type of striker to feed, Palmer has to still do more than he has when given the opportunities.
I am a big fan of Palmer, but he doesn't warrant a place ATM.

One problem I had with the Palmer signing is that he hasn't really shown much progression from when he was probably about 19-20 at Huddersfield.
 I'm  hoping that a lot could be due to formations and systems he's played in. With luck we find one that fits.

If he has not improved much at all in that time, then he might not ever get much better. When signing a 22 year old, it's not just how good the player is now, it's how good they can become. But if he isn't showing any progression in his game, then I am worried he won't ever improve. 🤞

But to be fair he was excellent in some of those early games. And even the odd game like Brentford away when we had Semenyo up top with Weimann. Palmer may have missed a sitter, but he really showed his quality.

4 million is a lot. But like Charlton game when he came on and changed the game, he CAN clearly do things not many can at this level. When he is confident and in the right set up he is class at this level.

The Wells signing is I believe to partly get Palmer back in the side. I didn't mind him not playing Wells last game as I thought we have won 4 in a row. It was always a difficult decision for LJ. 

I expect to see some changes for Derby game. This is where LJ really has to earn his money . Hard to drop Baker, AW , Fam and Pato. I left NE out of that as he may be due a rest to allow a change of shape. With Players available Wells has to be pushing , as does Henriksen as MF needs a boost. Benkovic was brought in to play . Something and someone has to give, hard choices.

 

 

On a wider note, a concern I have with how we go about things, and I know LJ says he has final yes/no , but it does seem we buy decent players who will hopefully improve and provide a future profit. Sensible and necessary strategy, what I wonder (stop me if you've heard this one before) who really is in charge of recruitment? At times we sign 3/4 wingers when our system definitely doesn't naturally fit them, we sign CB's then go to a back 4. Even the HNM and Nagy signings, were we in need of 2 smaller players? I say no. We have rarely , Wells does seem a departure in many ways, highlighted a problem area , and then gone and got that one player to fit. We have needed a big athletic ball winner for CMF for ages, and even now I don't think MH is THAT man, good singing that he may be. With luck we find a system/formation/lineup that jells and we hit some form from now in. How we have played over the last 2 years won't do the job imo.

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Pre-Jan it was 54.

Preston had signed 38 in the same period.

Until you go through the rest of the league I’m unsure if ours is abnormally high for a club in this division.

One thing that should go against us (in terms of transfers) is having the same manager, a lot of clubs during that period will have had different managers with different ideas wanting new players to implement them. 

City shouldn’t be signing 8-10 players in the summer under Johnson, think he even recently said this himself. Should be 3 or 4 to allow a fine tuning of the squad.

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14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

If that’s ‘ Incredible’.    .....

Try researching Brentford........

Same period , they’ve made £50.1 million in trading , have. A lower wage bill and I’d suggest far more saleable value assets at the present time,

Preston , often considered alongside us , ‘only’  £14.6m in profit on trading but a far lower wage bill and sustainability over ours

 

(Love a bit of research me @Prinny - shall I prepare an excel spreadsheet and accompanying PowerPoint for you hon ? 😆)

 I wanted you to post the figures to back up your point. Which you still haven't. Now you're doing this with a different point and tagging me. I don't know why you're calling me hon, I don't know you so it's a little creepy.

You're kinda embarrassing yourself with your bizarre behaviour and put downs. You're still being weird by @ing me in an unrelated post.

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3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Try comparing the players signed by Blackburn and ours Harry in that period

Age / fees etc

No comparison and a lazy one tbh

 

Hi Bob. 
I’m not trying to prove anything one way or another, just pointing out that signing 50 players over a 4 year period is not an anomaly, but is often being used as some kind of evidence that LJ is incompetent. 
Just wanted to point out that many clubs have signed around 50 players in the same period. 
 

It is not a lazy comparison. My initial post was a comparison to the 2 managers who were appointed around the same time as LJ and who are still in their role. 
One has been very successful (Wilder), the other has seen a relegation and a levelling out of expectations (Clough). 
 

The next comparison (Mowbray) was simply the next current championship manager on the list in terms of current tenure. And it proved that he also had signed a similar number of players in the same timeframe. 
 

If I had the time to go through the detail of every transfer I’d likely find that all of them had signed first team players, back up players and multiple loan/free/youth players. 

Most clubs will have signed circa 50 players in the last 4 years. Some with success, others not. 
As said, I’m not trying to prove either way whether LJ has been successful, just that when people come out with “he’s signed 50 players, he’s rubbish”, it’s another load of nonsense to go with a lot of the other nonsense being posted recently. 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

So what do people want? Us to not sign players?

I don't get what the problem is.

Lansdown admitted they made some mistakes in their recruitment a few years back, which I am sure we can accept if they were to put that right.

Let's look at the last 4 windows

Maenpaa, Marinovic, Bentley, Gilmartin, Hunt, Pereira (loan), Dasilva (loan), Dasilva (perm), Rowe, Kalas (loan), Kalas (perm) Webster, Williams, Benkovic (loan)

Nagy, Massengo, Henriksen (loan), Watkins, Palmer (loan), Palmer (perm), Szmodics, Adelakun, 

Weimann, Afobe (loan), Wells, Eisa, Rodri.

Not many of those were bad signings. Marinovic and Rodri were just brought in as cover, and i'd say the one mistake there was making them anything but cover by starting them. Gilmartin is emergency cover, and I doubt will ever play. That's probably what Marinovic should have been, but he did only play the one game anyway.

Adelkuan might turn out to be a decent signing if he keeps doing well at Rotherham. Eisa we made a profit on. Good business at least. So 4 very good windows since start of 18/19 season imo.

In the windows before this under Johnson the signings were not all quite so good. But he took over a squad that was very poor. Needed improving badly.

I would say Steele, Pisano, Wright, Baker, Moore, Magnússon, Brownhill, Walsh, Cotterill (loan), O'Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson, Abraham (loan), Taylor, Diedhiou were a mixture of good to excellent signings. Impressive list that, actually.

Unfortunate signings were O'Neil and Djuric. Both injured too much but would have been good ones for where we were at the time - a lower championship side looking to progress up the league. Both certainly contributed though so not all bad.

Bad signings overall:

 Marinovic, Giefer (loan), Lucic, Matthews (loan), Ekstrand, Hegeler, Kent (loan), Leko (loan), Tomlin, Diony (loan), Engvall, Woodrow (loan), Rodri

Not a lot of harm done with some of those bad ones. And also some of the bad ones made sense at the time and just did not work out. Like Tomlin and Matthews who were both excellent when they came in on loan the previous season under Pemberton who LJ then managed when appointed in February.

Then there are the youth signings which are cheap, and a bit more of a lottery. Some decent ones there it seems like Bakinson and J smith, and maybe some not so good ones which will always happen. They're young, they have potential. But it doesn't mean they will definitely fulfil it.

Overall it looks very good to me! We were making more mistakes in our recruitment in LJ's first couple of windows, but even then we made some really good signings.

Apologies if any of that is inaccurate! I think I have got it right.

 

 

1 hour ago, La Plage said:

Sorry chaps, my original point was aimed at what he does with the players at his disposal not the actual quantity.

4-5M£ player and probably one of our top earners not even in the squad again, who was signed permanently after spending a loan spell mostly on the bench???

Our “missing link” in midfield not starting against a much stronger and physical team and when we do change it finally bring on another player who always disappears during matches when we are trying to get back from 1-2.

A 17 goal championship striker on the bench when AW seems undroppable, without any idea how to give him service (see first point)

Our defence and midfield need to pass sideways/back (remind you of anyone?) 10 times before smashing in a long ball up to poor old Dave who by that time has at least 2 blokes at least his size all over him

Our main attacking outlet playing some kind of wingback role when we decided to take the left and right backs off taking off one of our most consistent players of in JD

So drawing comparisons to Sheffield United is a complete waist of time as their manager seems able to get the best out of his players.

 Rooney Wednesday will have a field day in the middle of that park then Elland road Saturday, interesting week ahead....

 

 

These two posts are quite good examples of where we are as a club.  Over the past couple of days there have been some really good thought provoking posts. Views from us OTIBers that have the same data behind them but different opinions, especially when being subjective about how good or bad a particular signing is / was. 

As I’ve posted many times re the Finances of City, Net Spend is a bit of an irrelevance.  It’s not how City manage their budgets, and with so many fees as undisclosed, let alone failure to lock in agent fees, signing fees, loan fees, it can be pretty inaccurate.

If I take a few comparisons - Bristol City FC not BC Holdings as it more accurately shows the pure football side

Season 16/17 versus 17/18 and 18/19

Income: £10.3m vs £17.1m vs £17.7m - starting to plateau

Profit on Transfers (not net spend): £0.1m vs £0.3m vs £38.1m - includes Bryan, Flint, Reid, Kelly, Magnússon 

Wages: £15.4m vs £23.1m vs £24.6m - gone up a lot, and will continue to, expect it to be getting close to £30m this year

Amortisation: £2.3m vs £8.1m vs £8.1m - growing, and a big strain on our accounts.  Likely to be a big jump this season too.

Op Costs: £6.0m vs £9.8m vs £10.4 - probably levelling out now

re Players we are now starting to see the truer view of LJ’s transfer dealings, that is players he signed and sold.  Two sides to this.  We can all say that Flint, Bryan, Reid and Kelly (£38m) weren’t his signings, and there will be a bun fight re Reid because he instigated the position change.  Another bun fight re Kelly too.  But ultimately, whichever side if the fence you’re on, apply the same consistency to the manager who comes in and replaces LJ, because he will leave players for the new manager to make profit on too (hopefully).

Personally I think recruitment has improved hugely.  The calibre of players brought in is fantastic.  The proof of this is not on paper, but how they are formed into a team on the pitch.  My view is split!

Are we seeing some players brought in as a business transaction?  Are the likes of Adelakun, Eisa and Szmodics a case of buying up talented lower division players, give them a few games, loan them out and sell for a profit (ignoring wage costs over their time here)?

Finally, if you buy predominantly younger players, you must expect most of them to develop.  Is that down to our coaching, or just natural progression?  Somewhere in between imho!  Was Josh Brownhill down to LJ, or just getting better through age and physical development?  If you are on the side that believes his progress was down to LJ, then use the same consistency with his best mate O’Dowda.

And if you take that view on younger players, ask yourself the same as to whether he’s developed any of our players over 25?  Hunt? Weimann? Smith? Watkins? Baker?  Maybe compare to Wilder with players like McGoldrick.

In terms of where I am, I think he’s doing a decent job, but he’s been wasteful with the club’s resources.  I think he could achieve a play-off challenge with a much trimmer squad, and without a heavy burden on our finances....which ultimately would mean he doesn't need to trade.  At the moment he’s allowed to throw “players” at any problem.  Would love to see him be forced to resolve problems by training, coaching and drilling a “team”!

 

Edited by Davefevs
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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hi Bob. 
I’m not trying to prove anything one way or another, just pointing out that signing 50 players over a 4 year period is not an anomaly, but is often being used as some kind of evidence that LJ is incompetent. 
Just wanted to point out that many clubs have signed around 50 players in the same period. 
 

It is not a lazy comparison. My initial post was a comparison to the 2 managers who were appointed around the same time as LJ and who are still in their role. 
One has been very successful (Wilder), the other has seen a relegation and a levelling out of expectations (Clough). 
 

The next comparison (Mowbray) was simply the next current championship manager on the list in terms of current tenure. And it proved that he also had signed a similar number of players in the same timeframe. 
 

If I had the time to go through the detail of every transfer I’d likely find that all of them had signed first team players, back up players and multiple loan/free/youth players. 

Most clubs will have signed circa 50 players in the last 4 years. Some with success, others not. 
As said, I’m not trying to prove either way whether LJ has been successful, just that when people come out with “he’s signed 50 players, he’s rubbish”, it’s another load of nonsense to go with a lot of the other nonsense being posted recently. 

The discussion point should be “it’s not how big it is, but what you do with it” 😂 or translated, it’s not how many, but how well he’s done with them.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The discussion point should be “it’s not how big it is, but what you do with it” 😂 or translated, it’s not how many, but how well he’s done with them.

And that is the judgement that is aimed at all managers at all clubs - how successful has your transfer policy been. 
And that is a perfectly legitimate discussion. 
What I’m pointing out is the nonsense that “he’s signed 50 players, what a load of horse****”, is not relevant to the argument, as most clubs will have signed a similar number of players. 
I’ve seen this argument being presented a hundred times in the last month or so, and it’s time to call it out as absolute ******* nonsense. 

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15 minutes ago, Harry said:

And that is the judgement that is aimed at all managers at all clubs - how successful has your transfer policy been. 
And that is a perfectly legitimate discussion. 
What I’m pointing out is the nonsense that “he’s signed 50 players, what a load of horse****”, is not relevant to the argument, as most clubs will have signed a similar number of players. 
I’ve seen this argument being presented a hundred times in the last month or so, and it’s time to call it out as absolute ******* nonsense. 

 

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The discussion point should be “it’s not how big it is, but what you do with it” 😂 or translated, it’s not how many, but how well he’s done with them.

I think we’d all agree it’s about number / quality you’ve been allowed to sign as part of a plan(s) (So Id argue looking at who makes up the 30 40 / 50 signings at any Club , and any underlying reasons is absolutely relevant Harry)

And IMHO opinion we have the strongest deepest squad that I’ve ever know with at least two (On paper) Championship ready players in just about every role with Full Internationals competing for places in some 

At no point,  having to throw youngsters in the eleven when on a run of injuries.

Its then what is produced from that envious position is the crux of the matter for me and I’d be surprised if either of you disagreed

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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24 minutes ago, Harry said:

And that is the judgement that is aimed at all managers at all clubs - how successful has your transfer policy been. 
And that is a perfectly legitimate discussion. 
What I’m pointing out is the nonsense that “he’s signed 50 players, what a load of horse****”, is not relevant to the argument, as most clubs will have signed a similar number of players. 
I’ve seen this argument being presented a hundred times in the last month or so, and it’s time to call it out as absolute ******* nonsense. 

 

13 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

I think we’d all agree it’s about number / quality you’ve been allowed to sign as part of a plan(s) (So Id argue looking at who makes up the 30 40 / 50 signings at any Club , and any underlying reasons is absolutely relevant Harry)

And IMHO opinion we have the strongest deepest squad that I’ve ever know with at least two (On paper) Championship ready players in just about every role with Full Internationals competing for places in some 

At no point,  having to throw youngsters in the eleven when on a run of injuries.

Its then what is produced from that envious position is the crux of the matter for me and I’d be surprised if either of you disagreed

I think we are all on a similar hymn sheet, probably have slightly differing views of “performance”. 😀

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2 hours ago, Pickle Rick said:

Is it Johnson Out or Johnson In this week? I never manage to keep track of the movement...

🤷🏻‍♂️

Week? It changes on a daily basis!!!!

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Just pointing out that LJ is £29m in profit on his transfer dealings..........

Plus, how many of those he’s signed were for development and how many first team ready?

Just asking.................:cool2:
 

It’s an integral part of SLs policy of developing players and moving them on as a part of his ‘sustainability’.

In all fairness I don't think LJ has anything to do with the transfer profits, we have an academy and coaches who has been developing players, MA seems to do all the business work in the transfer dealings, what exactly does LJ do other than coach and choose tactics?! 

LJ has had every resource under the sun, he's been invested in endlessly and the highlight of his career with us is the win over Man Utd. He's yet to get us to the playoffs and yet we've been through so many changes to the squad and he still can't make his best 11.

Wells signed for us and I'm starting to be concerned that he may very well stagnate under Johnson despite being a prolific goalscorer before joining us. 

I'd love to defend LJ but let's be fair, there are plenty of managers out there who given the backing and time he's been given would at the very least see us in the play offs and have some sort of footballing identity. We're so one dimensional under LJ right now and I'll be genuinely surprised if we take more than 3 points in the rest of February's games which would put us firmly out of the running. 

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9 minutes ago, Spike said:

In all fairness I don't think LJ has anything to do with the transfer profits, we have an academy and coaches who has been developing players, MA seems to do all the business work in the transfer dealings, what exactly does LJ do other than coach and choose tactics?! 

LJ has had every resource under the sun, he's been invested in endlessly and the highlight of his career with us is the win over Man Utd. He's yet to get us to the playoffs and yet we've been through so many changes to the squad and he still can't make his best 11.

Wells signed for us and I'm starting to be concerned that he may very well stagnate under Johnson despite being a prolific goalscorer before joining us. 

I'd love to defend LJ but let's be fair, there are plenty of managers out there who given the backing and time he's been given would at the very least see us in the play offs and have some sort of footballing identity. We're so one dimensional under LJ right now and I'll be genuinely surprised if we take more than 3 points in the rest of February's games which would put us firmly out of the running. 

Ultimately though the buck stops with the manager and it’s him who’ll get the sack if things go wrong. People like Tinnion and Ashton are in far safer jobs.

Because of that, he does also get credit for transfer profits in my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Ultimately though the buck stops with the manager and it’s him who’ll get the sack if things go wrong. People like Tinnion and Ashton are in far safer jobs.

Because of that, he does also get credit for transfer profits in my opinion.

Maybe, but my point is that if he were replaced by a tactically superior coach tomorrow the profits would keep happening due to the infrastructure and other staff we have but the football on the pitch would be far less manic and far more consistent. 

LJ is a nice guy, he really is, but as far as tactics and coaching goes he's got far too many weaknesses that don't seem to be going away which will hold progression back. 

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7 minutes ago, Spike said:

Maybe, but my point is that if he were replaced by a tactically superior coach tomorrow the profits would keep happening due to the infrastructure and other staff we have but the football on the pitch would be far less manic and far more consistent. 

LJ is a nice guy, he really is, but as far as tactics and coaching goes he's got far too many weaknesses that don't seem to be going away which will hold progression back. 

And then the replacement manager would get credit for transfers if they’d helped develop the players as the buck would stop with them.  Past managers obviously retain some credit for identifying players (O’Driscoll with Flint for example) but ultimately the buck stops with the current manager.

I think trying to remove credit from LJ for transfers like Kelly, Bryan and Reid etc is reaching a bit.

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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