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Anyone else like to see us resort to this style again especially at home? I seem to recall LJ saying we couldn't sustain it for a whole season after we fell away in January a couple of seasons back. We only have 15 games left now and 7/8 at home. I can't fathom out our tactics at home at the mo but whatever they are, they aren't working. Might be worth trying although the present squad might not suit the high press game 

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I'd very much like to see it and I think with our squad depth now we should have been able to cope with it.

I think the team are being over coached / over prepared for the opposition, what we need is less of that and more emphasis on our own game and confidence.  We seem confused and reactive.

When we have the ball at home there's no movement, nobody wants to carry it and nobody wants to receive it.  You see central midfielders taking the ball off centre halves, turning and having no options... everything is static and only when we're behind with nothing to lose does someone like Williams start carrying it out of defence.  It's confidence.

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When we press up the pitch we look very good, against Brum we kept forcing errors and thought we would get a 2nd, but as soon as we dropped deep we just invited pressure, the opposition get into the game and dominate and it takes a lot of last ditch defending and a bit of luck to not concede. If you are pressing up the pitch it prevents players time to pick a quality pass, although you have to be disciplined at the back if the press gets bypassed.

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That style is long gone - LJ realising that a) it is too difficult to maintain over a whole season b) we don’t have the resources to do it.

The fact is we’ve developed a style that works well away from home but not at Ashton Gate - hence we look devoid of ideas and disorganised at home too often because we are straying from what serves us well on the road. 
 

Teams know they can come here, sit back, frustrate the crowd, the players will start to take risks and they can simply catch us on the break. 

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33 minutes ago, Roe said:

This is how we played on Wednesday though 🤨

Only for the first 15 mins if you meant Friday.  After that it was the usual mundane sideways, backwards style. Patos goal was the result of pressing but we quickly abandoned that style.....again.

Edited by marmite
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1 minute ago, marmite said:

Only for the first 15 mins. After that it was the usual mundane sideways, backwards style. Patos goal was the result of pressing but we quickly abandoned that style.....again.

Nah.  Their equaliser came from a break while we had 8 players in their half.

And then look at the start of the build up that put them 2-1 ahead.  It's another high press with 7 players in their half.  They were just good enough to play around us.
 


I don't mind criticism of our style when it's accurate but this is a nonsense thread imo.

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Having players in the opposing half doesn't mean we play a high press style. Do you honestly think that is our style? It's nothing like the way we played 2 years ago. Now that was high press.

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3 hours ago, Three Lions said:

Takes time work and the right players. City don't have that. 

Pretty sure it was how we were trying to play a few seasons ago, heavy on possession, nice passing football, and looking to press and get the ball aggressively.. that was before the last 2 seasons where our football has gone backwards and we haven't really got an identity.

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1 hour ago, Roe said:

This is how we played on Wednesday though 🤨

Not really. As has been said elsewhere, we started like that, then after the equalliser, which was a bit against the run-of-play, Massengo was told to drop deep, and we seemed quite content to let Birmingham carry the ball almost to the centre line without challenge.

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We were just horrible on Friday frankly. 

The shape was non-existent most of the time. Ok to have one player adopting a free-role, but we had players adopting free roles all over the place. 

Pato, I assume, had the ‘official’ free role. It’s a luxury to incorporate that role into a team and whoever is given the privilege of adopting it, their performance is often a make or break in terms of the final result. Apart from the goal, unfortunately, he seems to be returning to ‘type’ with a pretty anonymous effort. Problem was we also had Massengo, Wiemann running around the pitch like headless chickens also. 

A really ill-discilined performance all round that deserved and got nothing. 

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LJ seems to think our home form is decent and away form is superb so it doesn’t bother him. The fact that near enough every team in the league has come to Aston Gate and embarrassed us. I’m sorry LJ is in cuckoo land you will never be promoted without a good to very good home form. Some of the tosh he spouts is beyond me. I’m not LJ out but never listened to a manager so full of Sh*t in my life

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14 minutes ago, Sparkz 76 said:

LJ seems to think our home form is decent and away form is superb so it doesn’t bother him. The fact that near enough every team in the league has come to Aston Gate and embarrassed us. I’m sorry LJ is in cuckoo land you will never be promoted without a good to very good home form. Some of the tosh he spouts is beyond me. I’m not LJ out but never listened to a manager so full of Sh*t in my life

When did he say that our home form was decent?

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I agree we tried the high press until they scored.

Pato is quite capable - he and Bobby were the best at it 2 seasons ago. We only need the midfield, wingbacks and strikers pressing.

Likewise - HNM has energy in bundles and could easily press the whole game. I also think Fam is much fitter than before and the one thing we all agree Weimann does well is run for 90 minutes.

So we do have the players - if we instruct them.

Was frustrated we stopped trying on Friday simply because Jack Hunt messed up and it led to the equaliser. I wonder whether we should have subbed him earlier and used Korey (he is used to this role) and it gives room for Nagy to press.

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2 hours ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

Pretty sure it was how we were trying to play a few seasons ago, heavy on possession, nice passing football, and looking to press and get the ball aggressively.. that was before the last 2 seasons where our football has gone backwards and we haven't really got an identity.

It was for a relatively short period of time and City were not particularly heavy (50% +but not high)  on possession  but did use a lot of short passing. That type of passing has gone. It would be unrealistic to press in the same manner without approaching the game similarly. It is also questionable if certain regular starters have the discipline required and fitness (recovery post press).

 

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9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It was for a relatively short period of time and City were not particularly heavy (50% +but not high)  on possession  but did use a lot of short passing. That type of passing has gone. It would be unrealistic to press in the same manner without approaching the game similarly. It is also questionable if certain regular starters have the discipline required and fitness (recovery post press).

 

If I’ve learned one thing from you, it’s that you can’t just decide to press as a reaction to the other team getting the ball.  You have to play close together with the ball, so that when you lose it, you are all in close proximity to work together to get it back.  Not doing that is why teams can pass through a press.

I don’t think we have capability to put that into play at present.

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1 hour ago, Sparkz 76 said:

LJ seems to think our home form is decent and away form is superb so it doesn’t bother him. The fact that near enough every team in the league has come to Aston Gate and embarrassed us. I’m sorry LJ is in cuckoo land you will never be promoted without a good to very good home form. Some of the tosh he spouts is beyond me. I’m not LJ out but never listened to a manager so full of Sh*t in my life

Its a real shame our home form is patchy, under Lee’s father in the play off season Ashton gate was a real fortress.

If the home form was similar this season we’d be top two easily.

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6 hours ago, dave36 said:

Takes time, work AND good coaching for the right players - over to LJ

Is it just me, or is the ‘pressing’ game relatively easy?! When I played, from under 8s upwards we were constantly told to close the opposition down quickly, get right in their faces and give them no time on the ball - so why does this stuff now take time, work and good coaching - at a professional level?!

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Not trying to be funny at all, but I would love to know how we are trying to play. Out of possession seems fairly good, disciplined and determined. When we have the ball there doesn't seem much past , hit Fam or get Eliasson wide, not much support from MF and as a second striker AW never plays off of his co striker. I think we need to retain the ball better, we tend to invite pressure and defend deeper and deeper if we manage to get a lead. The return of the Pat has helped a little, but now we have the conundrum of fitting new players into positions where the current holder of the shirt doesn't deserve to be dropped. 
I think the Derby game is going to be a very interesting team sheet.

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3 hours ago, Sparkz 76 said:

LJ seems to think our home form is decent and away form is superb so it doesn’t bother him. The fact that near enough every team in the league has come to Aston Gate and embarrassed us. I’m sorry LJ is in cuckoo land you will never be promoted without a good to very good home form. Some of the tosh he spouts is beyond me. I’m not LJ out but never listened to a manager so full of Sh*t in my life

You're right that's what he said post match.

What's odd is that a few days earlier he had asserted that our home form will be key.

I think he's worried, really.  

We've got...

Derby

WBA

Fulham

Shef Wed

Cardiff

Hull

Stoke

Preston 

 

How many wins there?

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On 09/02/2020 at 19:14, BS4 on Tour... said:

Is it just me, or is the ‘pressing’ game relatively easy?! 

It depends on what you mean by "pressing" game. The topic is high press and there are variants. In Bristol City's case there is a standard from previous seasons. That press depending heavily on Bobby Reid and players following him as their cue and the team would then shift in relation. Players also sought to isolate full backs and work in units as well as press in the second third. 

When Lee Johnson included Famara in the team the high pressing as a consistent feature of the teams play disappeared. The team has dropped generally (note generally) into a medium block and screened. 

What does high pressing require? Very high fitness and high recovery times post explosive movements (very important). Communication. Mobility. Discipline (a waste of time without it) and tactical understanding of the triggers and cues collectively through the team.

Its a very hard thing to achieve fluently. Mr Johnson may be here being very pragmatic. The simple act of aggressively pressing a ball several times will see players suffering through the build up of lactic acid. Recovery can be improved by training but Mother nature blesses some far far more than others. A players recovery time can be seconds or several minutes of being leggy. 

Liverpool the finest (?) high pressing team in England recruit players with high recovery times and do reject players/release/sell them based upon that basis. 

That still leaves communication, mobility, discipline etc being aligned to a style of play.  

On 09/02/2020 at 19:14, BS4 on Tour... said:

When I played, from under 8s upwards we were constantly told to close the opposition down quickly, get right in their faces and give them no time on the ball - so why does this stuff now take time, work and good coaching - at a professional level?!

As an aside .. 

You can tell eight years old to run over there and press that but they won't really understand why. Any coach telling eight year old kids to press the ball is not following what the FA instructs coaches to do. The FA introduced a retreat lines to prevent the pressing of goal kicks and encourage players to learn to enjoy being on the ball - Coaches at that age should know what their age related  priorities are and follow them.

Kids at eight/nine/ten do not have the comprehension skills to understand tactics. U8s coaches should be concentrating on creating technical ability and making the game fun.

The tactical side comes post eleven when kids mentally start to possess the ability to comprehend the whys ..

Edited by Cowshed
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4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It depends on what you mean by "pressing" game. The topic is high press and there are variants. In Bristol City's case there is a standard from previous seasons. That press depending heavily on Bobby Reid and players following him as their cue and the team would then shift in relation. Players also sought to isolate full backs and work in units as well as press in the second third. 

When Lee Johnson included Famara in the team the high pressing as a consistent feature of the teams play disappeared. The team has dropped generally (note generally) into a medium block and screened. 

What does high pressing require? Very high fitness and high recovery times post explosive movements (very important). Communication. Mobility. Discipline (a waste of time without it) and tactical understanding of the triggers and cues collectively through the team.

Its a very hard thing to achieve fluently. Mr Johnson may be here being very pragmatic. The simple act of aggressively pressing a ball several times will see players suffering through the build up of lactic acid. Recovery can be improved by training but Mother nature blesses some far far more than others. A players recovery time can be seconds or several minutes of being leggy. 

Liverpool the finest (?) high pressing team in England recruit players with high recovery times and do reject players/release/sell them based upon that basis. 

That still leaves communication, mobility, discipline etc being aligned to a style of play.  

As an aside .. 

You can tell eight years old to run over there and press that but they won't really understand why. Any coach telling eight year old kids to press the ball is not following what the FA instructs coaches to do. The FA introduced a retreat lines to prevent the pressing of goal kicks and encourage players to learn to enjoy being on the ball - Coaches at that age should know what their age related  priorities are and follow them.

Kids at eight/nine/ten do not have the comprehension skills to understand tactics. U8s coaches should be concentrating on creating technical ability and making the game fun.

The tactical side comes post eleven when kids mentally start to possess the ability to comprehend the whys ..

Yeh, but I was talking about when I was eight years old - a long, long time ago ...

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