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formerly known as ivan

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Is it the general consensus on here that, apart from ourselves obviously, you would love to see Brentford promoted above any of the other teams vying for promotion?

The way they have been building and recruiting over the last few years has been remarkable. We all knew about Watkins but I think he would have surprised most with his form. Benrahma and Mbeumo seem to have come from nowhere. Benrahma has a lot of similarities with Mahrez and is likely to be top flight football next season regardless of Brentford getting promoted or not.

Always been a nice little club and a good away day.

As I write this Leeds have equalised!

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1 minute ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Is it the general consensus on here that, apart from ourselves obviously, you would love to see Brentford promoted above any of the other teams vying for promotion?

The way they have been building and recruiting over the last few years has been remarkable. We all knew about Watkins but I think he would have surprised most with his form. Benrahma and Mbeumo seem to have come from nowhere. Benrahma has a lot of similarities with Mahrez and is likely to be top flight football next season regardless of Brentford getting promoted or not.

Always been a nice little club and a good away day.

As I write this Leeds have equalised!

I’m mixed.  It would be a bit gutting if they or Brentford got to the Poem before us.  But for footballing value, yes.

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If we don't go up then I would rather Brentford stay down as there would be a good chance that they lose Watkins, Benrahma and Mbuemo so in theory would be weaker next season. If WBA, Fulham or Leeds stay down they would still be a force in this division given their size, parachute payments etc.

WOuld prefer West Ham and Villa to stay up for this reason as the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford and Norwich would not have the same strength in this division.

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3 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

If we don't go up then I would rather Brentford stay down as there would be a good chance that they lose Watkins, Benrahma and Mbuemo so in theory would be weaker next season. If WBA, Fulham or Leeds stay down they would still be a force in this division given their size, parachute payments etc.

WOuld prefer West Ham and Villa to stay up for this reason as the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford and Norwich would not have the same strength in this division.

Yeah, but you watch them with their new front three of  - Engvall, Woodrow and Diony ?

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11 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Much rather them than Leeds. The funny thing is we’re a very similar club in many ways, achieving very similar results, and no one’s happy. Funny old game. 

I am not attempting to be rude etc but I do not think I ever looked at Brentford as a very similar club to BCFC. 

Starting at A with attendances (historical) could you explain how Brentford are very similar to Bristol City? B for budgets? C for competition (London) .. 

In terms of the way they approach their football to achieve their results they are very different. 

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9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I am not attempting to be rude etc but I do not think I ever looked at Brentford as a very similar club to BCFC. 

Starting at A with attendances (historical) could you explain how Brentford are very similar to Bristol City? B for budgets? C for competition (London) .. 

In terms of the way they approach their football to achieve their results they are very different. 

Starting with a disclaimer; I've not done any research on this!

A. Historically maybe not as much difference e as you might think? Ours have significantly increased the last 2-3 years, in part down to new ground and it'll be interesting to see what Brentfoeprd get at theirs. 

B. I think Inrecall reading on here that their budget is not massively different to ours. Again, not saying it's exactly the same, but not wildly different. It will depend how you define 'budget' of course.

C How can you possibly dismiss the mighty and all conquering lot from across the City so lightly? They have the potential, not to mention the away following, to match and Chelsea or Tottenham, or so I'm led to believe! 

I thoughtbtjeir approach currently is one that's seen to be very similar to ours. Buy cheap, selling club, pressing, passing football. It's certainly used as another stick to beat LJ, SL with every time they go on a better run than us!

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7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

To Bee or not to Bee .

 

The highlight of my trip to Millwall last season was the coach drivers commentary as we travelled through central London. On the embankment at Chelsea there's a very nice house with two large expensive cars. The reg of one is '2 B' and the other 'NOT 2B'

A wealthy actor I think, not a rich Brentford fan.

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1 hour ago, italian dave said:

The highlight of my trip to Millwall last season was the coach drivers commentary as we travelled through central London. On the embankment at Chelsea there's a very nice house with two large expensive cars. The reg of one is '2 B' and the other 'NOT 2B'

A wealthy actor I think, not a rich Brentford fan.

Could have been an  artist successful with drawing and sketching. :) 

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I am not attempting to be rude etc but I do not think I ever looked at Brentford as a very similar club to BCFC. 

Starting at A with attendances (historical) could you explain how Brentford are very similar to Bristol City? B for budgets? C for competition (London) .. 

In terms of the way they approach their football to achieve their results they are very different. 

Similar sustainable ethos towards improving their club, both never been in the prem in current guise, but established as one of a handful of teams that you’d tip to achieve it in the next decade. 

Budgets - everyone loves to paint the picture of little old Brentford doing it all on a shoestring budget. Far from it. 

In fact ‘little old Brentford’ had one of the highest wage / revenue ratios in the championship in 2018, outspending their revenue by a factor of 1.35. Their wage budget that year was 70% of ours despite operating on half the gates. 

Not sure what the point regarding C is, yes they have competition in London in this league in the likes of Fulham and QPR but you’d argue that the very fact that they’re in London gives them a huge trump card in terms of beating non-London based teams to a signature, especially as on the face of it they spend well beyond their means on wages. 

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14 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Is it the general consensus on here that, apart from ourselves obviously, you would love to see Brentford promoted above any of the other teams vying for promotion?

The way they have been building and recruiting over the last few years has been remarkable. We all knew about Watkins but I think he would have surprised most with his form. Benrahma and Mbeumo seem to have come from nowhere. Benrahma has a lot of similarities with Mahrez and is likely to be top flight football next season regardless of Brentford getting promoted or not.

Always been a nice little club and a good away day.

As I write this Leeds have equalised!

How do this modest club recruit so well from overseas. Of course players from overseas would prefer to live in London than out in the sticks but you really have to admire how they find players that fit into the Championship and their style of play.

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I’m a bit biased as I’ve got an ex-work colleague who’s a Bees fan and we’ve had some excellent days at AG and GP over the last few years. But I’ve always enjoyed going to Brentford and think, like a lot of clubs with more glamorous teams nearby, Brentford have a very high proportion of proper “thick-and-thin” fans and no glory-hunters.

So I’d love to see those fans get their ‘day in the sun’. Ideally going up automatically, with us beating Leeds in the PO Final!

 

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To anyone bemoaning ‘little’ Brentford having the nerve to compete with ‘massive’ Bristol City, here’s a reality check.

This plots our ‘league pyramid’ position for the last 60 years versus the Bees (using current divisional divides)

106399-B1-7163-4455-B21-D-BD190-C9-AD010

What it shows is in the early days of the comparison - c 1960 - 1980 there was a large gulf in the league placings, but from 1980 onwards, our average point in the league pyramid is 45th, and Brentford 52nd. Barely any difference. 

But the sad reality is we’re two clubs who between us have achieved absolutely nothing in a combined 250+ years. So quite where all the ‘another little team that are better than us’ mentality comes from I don’t know. People don’t like to hear it, but we don’t have any history whatsoever to warrant indignation about what other teams do. 

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I guess it's generational. My dad used to talk about Brentford as a "once big club", They seem to be one of the clubs that were set back by the war. in the 1930's they were consistently a top 6 first division side. Some clubs came out from the other side of war stronger than others, I would imagine the competition for fans in London was part of their undoing.

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16 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

To anyone bemoaning ‘little’ Brentford having the nerve to compete with ‘massive’ Bristol City, here’s a reality check.

This plots our ‘league pyramid’ position for the last 60 years versus the Bees (using current divisional divides)

106399-B1-7163-4455-B21-D-BD190-C9-AD010

What it shows is in the early days of the comparison - c 1960 - 1980 there was a large gulf in the league placings, but from 1980 onwards, our average point in the league pyramid is 45th, and Brentford 52nd. Barely any difference. 

But the sad reality is we’re two clubs who between us have achieved absolutely nothing in a combined 250+ years. So quite where all the ‘another little team that are better than us’ mentality comes from I don’t know. People don’t like to hear it, but we don’t have any history whatsoever to warrant indignation about what other teams do. 

I think part of it is because in recent years they've signed a few players who've been on our radar - Ollie Watkins, Daniel Bentley (now here of course), Rico Henry etc. For domestic players at least we often seem to be mentioned in the same rumours as they are.

Very easy to criticise the club for not acting on tip offs about players like Watkins (which in hindsight was a big mistake) but I bet lots of clubs in the division were wishing it had been them who took a chance on Eliasson, Jay Dasilva or got Abraham on loan. The grass is always greener.

Added to the fact they we seem to find them very awkward to play against. Your average fan probably only sees Championship sides when they play against us, and maybe once or twice in occasional Sky games, so people might have a slightly skewed opinion on Brentford's prowess because they've given us a tough time.

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think part of it is because in recent years they've signed a few players who've been on our radar - Ollie Watkins, Daniel Bentley (now here of course), Rico Henry etc. For domestic players at least we often seem to be mentioned in the same rumours as they are.

Very easy to criticise the club for not acting on tip offs about players like Watkins (which in hindsight was a big mistake) but I bet lots of clubs in the division were wishing it had been them who took a chance on Eliasson, Jay Dasilva or got Abraham on loan. The grass is always greener.

Added to the fact they we seem to find them very awkward to play against. Your average fan probably only sees Championship sides when they play against us, and maybe once or twice in occasional Sky games, so people might have a slightly skewed opinion on Brentford's prowess because they've given us a tough time.

Absolutely this. People who are that way inclined only see the positives in what other sides do and the negatives in what we do.

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1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Similar sustainable ethos towards improving their club, both never been in the prem in current guise, but established as one of a handful of teams that you’d tip to achieve it in the next decade. 

Budgets - everyone loves to paint the picture of little old Brentford doing it all on a shoestring budget. Far from it. 

In fact ‘little old Brentford’ had one of the highest wage / revenue ratios in the championship in 2018, outspending their revenue by a factor of 1.35. Their wage budget that year was 70% of ours despite operating on half the gates. 

Not sure what the point regarding C is, yes they have competition in London in this league in the likes of Fulham and QPR but you’d argue that the very fact that they’re in London gives them a huge trump card in terms of beating non-London based teams to a signature, especially as on the face of it they spend well beyond their means on wages. 

You posted BCFC are a very similar club.

Attendances are significantly different over decades.

I am no expert in regards to finance but by using Bristol City finances last season haven't you used an exceptional example? Bristol City have spent massively past their means in the recent past. 

C. Brentford have a lot of competition for fans and players in their area. Bristol City do not. Bristol City are the largest club in Bristol and the South West. The challenges are different and at this point the XI has no local players in its XI from Bristol or the South West.  

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Starting with a disclaimer; I've not done any research on this!

A. Historically maybe not as much difference e as you might think? Ours have significantly increased the last 2-3 years, in part down to new ground and it'll be interesting to see what Brentfoeprd get at theirs. 

B. I think Inrecall reading on here that their budget is not massively different to ours. Again, not saying it's exactly the same, but not wildly different. It will depend how you define 'budget' of course.

C How can you possibly dismiss the mighty and all conquering lot from across the City so lightly? They have the potential, not to mention the away following, to match and Chelsea or Tottenham, or so I'm led to believe! 

I thoughtbtjeir approach currently is one that's seen to be very similar to ours. Buy cheap, selling club, pressing, passing football. It's certainly used as another stick to beat LJ, SL with every time they go on a better run than us!

I hope I answered your post above but in relation to pressing football BCFC V Brentford are very different. Brentford have on average far more possession than Bristol City or the opponents. They pass short. They use generally 4-3-3 and occasionally 3-4-3. They recruit to that consistent identity.

Bristol City use seven formations .. Its a very different approach.

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32 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

To anyone bemoaning ‘little’ Brentford having the nerve to compete with ‘massive’ Bristol City, here’s a reality check.

This plots our ‘league pyramid’ position for the last 60 years versus the Bees (using current divisional divides)

106399-B1-7163-4455-B21-D-BD190-C9-AD010

What it shows is in the early days of the comparison - c 1960 - 1980 there was a large gulf in the league placings, but from 1980 onwards, our average point in the league pyramid is 45th, and Brentford 52nd. Barely any difference. 

But the sad reality is we’re two clubs who between us have achieved absolutely nothing in a combined 250+ years. So quite where all the ‘another little team that are better than us’ mentality comes from I don’t know. People don’t like to hear it, but we don’t have any history whatsoever to warrant indignation about what other teams do. 

We are one of, if not the biggest underachievers in the whole league system taking into account league placing v attendance and particularly league placing v potential.

Brentford are not a similar club to us, mainly given there tiny attendances. Now, half of ours and in the past never averaging anywhere near 10k for almost 45 years until 2015. 

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2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You posted BCFC are a very similar club.

Attendances are significantly different over decades.

I am no expert in regards to finance but by using Bristol City finances last season haven't you used an exceptional example? Bristol City have spent massively past their means in the recent past. 

C. Brentford have a lot of competition for fans and players in their area. Bristol City do not. Bristol City are the largest club in Bristol and the South West. The challenges are different and at this point the XI has no local players in its XI from Bristol or the South West.  

Yes and I’ve explained why I see us as similar clubs. Attendances, especially historic, are a fairly crude way of measuring a club’s standing IMO, 12k v 20k through the gates at this level is fairly inconsequential to overall chance of success. 

I tend to divide this league into 4 pots - those who you’d have competing for automatic promotion, those who you’d say should be competing the playoffs, then a fairly wide ‘mid table’ band and those who will see staying up as a decent achievement. 

I would have thought 99% of fans would put us and Brentford in the same pot. 

Re the wage example it’s just the latest data I could find, I keep reading how plucky little Brentford are doing brilliantly on a tiny budget and it’s not really true. It’s not massive compared to some clubs but people talk like they’re a Luton or a Rotherham at times. 

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