Jump to content
IGNORED

The Jack Hunt conundrum.

Prinny

By Prinny
in Football Chat

Recommended Posts

Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Prinny said:

What to do if anything about this player.

Great cross. Have to say that. He does it a lot, so again it's a big strength of ours.

But. But.

Every team just targets our right hand side when he's there.

He's so slow (and knows it), so he starts so far off his man, he never has a hope of stopping a cross, and give them a free run at him.

Obviously the club tried to fix this with Pereira, but he kept making errors so hasn't played in a while.

So what do you do?

Keep playing him and manage it like we have been doing?

Bring in Pereira again?

Something else? (Teach Andy Weimann to play there so he can stay in the team... /s)

I think it’s a combination of things.  Firstly I thought he was excellent first half.

Secondly, he is asked to play narrow to protect Williams.  Adam Matthews / Mark Little did it for Flint too, and got slated.  It leaves his winger free.  However in the first half the midfield shifted side to side quickly so that it rarely became a 1on1.  As we tired and Eliasson’s defensive “discipline” (probably not the right word, but he often tracks the non-dangerman) suffers, we get exposed by teams with good structure who know how move the ball from one side of the pitch to another quickly - either with one pass or several quick ones.  Today Derby moved the ball from their left to the centre, feigned to go back left, but got an overload to allow a quick one-touch pass to free a midfielder (Rooney / Bird often) to then play in Lawrence or Lowe.  Lawrence often dragged Eliasson outside-in....leaving Lowe acres.

I’d love to see City match those patterns of play.

Ultimately, don’t blame Hunt per se....it’s not all his fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spud55

Spud55

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I’ve quite liked Pereira as a full back in the games that I have seen, am I missing something?

Agree, don't think he's as good going forward as Hunt but whenever I've seen him looks way more solid defensively. Hunts positioning is piss poor, and as mentioned by others he will  almost never stop the cross. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted

In my view, Hunt is a classic winger who has somehow ended up being played as a full-back.

As others have said, he's great going forward, but often runs so far forward he cannot get back to defend.

This has been noticed when opposition managers study the goals against us.

Pereira doesn't have Hunt's flair for crosses, but is a better defender. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Bard

The Bard

Posted
Posted

I thought we got it right at QPR.  Replaced Hunt with Perreira for the last 30 minutes when we were defending the lead.  Perreira is miles better defensively than Hunt who looks permanently confused when defending. 

7 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Agree, don't think he's as good going forward as Hunt but whenever I've seen him looks way more solid defensively. Hunts positioning is piss poor, and as mentioned by others he will  almost never stop the cross. 

Spot on

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted

For all the flak Hunt gets, I'm still a bit sceptical as to how many genuinely really good right backs there are in the Championship. I'd quite agree that he has his flaws but I don't think we've had an exceptional right back since Mark Little, who was at his best in a division below. We seem to be lucky with left-backs but right back has been a position we've tended to struggle with but I don't know that I think there are loads of quality players out there who are realistic targets we could be getting instead. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

For all the flak Hunt gets, I'm still a bit sceptical as to how many genuinely really good right backs there are in the Championship. I'd quite agree that he has his flaws but I don't think we've had an exceptional right back since Mark Little, who was at his best in a division below. We seem to be lucky with left-backs but right back has been a position we've tended to struggle with but I don't know that I think there are loads of quality players out there who are realistic targets we could be getting instead. 

Mark Little was pretty poor at championship level. He did well enough when we survived at the end of our second season. But he was never a championship player.

Hunt probably has been our best one for us overall. But I believe Pereira is maybe better already. Certainly defensively one on one and in the air too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

What about Luke Ayling !!!!!!

Never really played that well for us at right back imo. Was very good at centre back in promotion season and then dodgy at centre back in championship. When moved to right back he lost his place to Adam Matthews.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Mark Little was pretty poor at championship level. He did well enough when we survived at the end of our second season. But he was never a championship player.

Hunt probably has been our best one for us overall. But I believe Pereira is maybe better already. Certainly defensively one on one and in the air too.

Yeah - I was referring to Mark Little as a good full full back in League One. To be fair, I'm not sure he was often fully fit in the Championship but definitely was his League One performances I was referring to. 

33 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Never really played that well for us at right back imo. Was very good at centre back in promotion season and then dodgy at centre back in championship. When moved to right back he lost his place to Adam Matthews.

I think it is no coincidence Ayling did well in League One under Cotts - when he was played as a right centre-back in a fluid system where he did a bit at right back, a bit at centre back and a bit in midfield - and again under Bielsa. I agree he was never great for us in the Championship and I think he does much better in very fluid tactical systems rather than being asked to excel in one particular position, which is no criticism but I think his performances for Leeds are partly because Leeds suit his style of player much more than we do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Yeah - I was referring to Mark Little as a good full full back in League One. To be fair, I'm not sure he was often fully fit in the Championship but definitely was his League One performances I was referring to. 

I think it is no coincidence Ayling did well in League One under Cotts - when he was played as a right centre-back in a fluid system where he did a bit at right back, a bit at centre back and a bit in midfield - and again under Bielsa. I agree he was never great for us and I think he does much better in very fluid tactical systems rather than being asked to excel in one particular position, which is no criticism but I think his performances for Leeds are partly because Leeds suit his style of player much more than we do. 

Agree. 

I have noticed fans talk about Ayling as being this great right back for us that we shouldn't have let go.

I don't think we had a lot of choice about it, as his contract had a year left and we got what we could. But I remember not being bothered about losing him as he wasn't that good for us at this level at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think it’s a combination of things.  Firstly I thought he was excellent first half.

Secondly, he is asked to play narrow to protect Williams.  Adam Matthews / Mark Little did it for Flint too, and got slated.  It leaves his winger free.  However in the first half the midfield shifted side to side quickly so that it rarely became a 1on1.  As we tired and Eliasson’s defensive “discipline” (probably not the right word, but he often tracks the non-dangerman) suffers, we get exposed by teams with good structure who know how move the ball from one side of the pitch to another quickly - either with one pass or several quick ones.  Today Derby moved the ball from their left to the centre, feigned to go back left, but got an overload to allow a quick one-touch pass to free a midfielder (Rooney / Bird often) to then play in Lawrence or Lowe.  Lawrence often dragged Eliasson outside-in....leaving Lowe acres.

I’d love to see City match those patterns of play.

Ultimately, don’t blame Hunt per se....it’s not all his fault.

Don’t think it’s to do with Flint or Williams per se Dave

Think the full backs defending ‘narrow’ / compact is one of the few consistent in Lees ethos I’ve noticed

i think he sees most sides threat (And probably quite rightly) is sides playing through you moreso than getting in behind or down the sides , and is happy to surrender some crosses confident we have the centre halves to deal with them 

(Interested In @Cowshed ‘s views too)

(Personally I think they are slightly too narrow , especially Hunt who struggles more than JD does when his opponent has the ball at his feet and attacks him - for me it’s not the cross stopping from wide that worries me , it’s them working in / getting in , behind Hunt on his side  (Not helped by what’s in front of him  I accept)

i actually wouldn’t be against Hunt , in front of Pedro , on RHS of a midfield four in a 4-4-2 for certain games 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Robbored

Robbored

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

In my view, Hunt is a classic winger who has somehow ended up being played as a full-back.

As others have said, he's great going forward, but often runs so far forward he cannot get back to defend.

This has been noticed when opposition managers study the goals against us.

Pereira doesn't have Hunt's flair for crosses, but is a better defender. 

Essentially Yorick is a wing back and like most WBs he gets caught out of position from time to time and when that happens it’s upto another City player to fill the void - a common enough defensive strategy used by  all well coached teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Essentially Yorick is a wing back and like most WBs he gets caught out of position from time to time and when that happens it’s upto another City player to fill the void - a common enough defensive strategy used by  all well coached teams.

Except he's out of position more often than in it, and no one fills the void.

So it doesn't work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Robbored

Robbored

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Except he's out of position more often than in it, and no one fills the void.

So it doesn't work.

Then that’s an error from the defenders and/or whoever is playing in the DM position. 

Covering each other’s position is very basic defensive strategy and should be done automatically.

Its hardly Hunts fault if nobody covers the RB position when he bombs forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Then that’s an error from the defenders and/or whoever is playing in the DM position. 

Covering each other’s position is very basic defensive strategy and should be done automatically.

Its hardly Hunts fault if nobody covers the RB position when he bombs forward.

You have to ask yourself when he plays as part of a back 4,  what is his primary job?  The answer is surely as a defender. Two centre backs are not going to cover an entire pitch width.

I've certainly no objection to a fast FB making the occasional foray up the wings and feeding a winger.  But Hunt spends 85% of the game in an advanced position, often over-running the winger.

This leads to an inevitable gap and this is exploited.

Derby played multiple balls deep down the right last night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cowshed

Cowshed

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t think it’s to do with Flint or Williams per se Dave

Think the full backs defending ‘narrow’ / compact is one of the few consistent in Lees ethos I’ve noticed

i think he sees most sides threat (And probably quite rightly) is sides playing through you moreso than getting in behind or down the sides , and is happy to surrender some crosses confident we have the centre halves to deal with them 

(Interested In @Cowshed ‘s views too)

(Personally I think they are slightly too narrow , especially Hunt who struggles more than JD does when his opponent has the ball at his feet and attacks him - for me it’s not the cross stopping from wide that worries me , it’s them working in / getting in , behind Hunt on his side  (Not helped by what’s in front of him  I accept)

i actually wouldn’t be against Hunt , in front of Pedro , on RHS of a midfield four in a 4-4-2 for certain games 

 

Being narrow is a consistent. I am in favour of Mr Johnson approaching the game this way and it did make sense to do so v Derby who will attempt to play through teams. The team shifted as a unit in response to Derby's possession. That response did wane legs, changes, discipline, maybe all three.

That left Hunt exposed.

I don't like his defending 1 v 1. He is too narrow. He was providing depth when his opponent was just outside of the box when he should have been denying the wide player space so he couldn't get it out his feet to do a bit. He was often passive. Dictate what he does, not react to what he does

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t think it’s to do with Flint or Williams per se Dave

Think the full backs defending ‘narrow’ / compact is one of the few consistent in Lees ethos I’ve noticed

i think he sees most sides threat (And probably quite rightly) is sides playing through you moreso than getting in behind or down the sides , and is happy to surrender some crosses confident we have the centre halves to deal with them 

(Interested In @Cowshed ‘s views too)

(Personally I think they are slightly too narrow , especially Hunt who struggles more than JD does when his opponent has the ball at his feet and attacks him - for me it’s not the cross stopping from wide that worries me , it’s them working in / getting in , behind Hunt on his side  (Not helped by what’s in front of him  I accept)

i actually wouldn’t be against Hunt , in front of Pedro , on RHS of a midfield four in a 4-4-2 for certain games 

 

I don’t think it’s every game, but certainly become noticeable since Xmas. Perhaps I’d not really noticed earlier this season because we played 3 CBs half the time.

I haven’t noticed it particularly on Baker’s side.  Last night might have been 1) giving Benkovic (full debut) a big of protection and 2) Waghorn’s desire to come inside into his left foot.

Certainly one to watch going forward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LocoPal

LocoPal

Posted
Posted

In all fairness, Tom Larwence is one of the most difficult & skillful mildfielfiers to contain down that side, so Jack Hunt did a great job on him.

I know you haters don't want him in, but he is the 'balls'out', best right back we will have had for a while. Just wait & see!

Please continue your support!

It is important!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, LocoPal said:

i like this, and i need more of it!

I would love this kind of this detail in evidence.

Who is providing this and can we have more?

Oh ... how much will this cost?

My guess is, it is out of the average support's (consumer's pay reach)

Let us know!

I only have a Wyscout subscription with very limited video (20mins per month) at £12pm.  James has the full package, something like £100pm.  I get full data/stats for my sub, but the video is where they make their money.

I occasionally create videos like this, but usually just watch them to check certain things.

I created a Diedhiou one v Fulham for Shtanley.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...