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Dolman_Stand

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

3-5-2 is absolutely NOT the way to play at Leeds. 
 

They play Bamford on his own. We don’t need 3 marking 1. 
Their strength is down the flanks, creating overlaps and utilising the pace of Harrison & Costa. You can’t let wing backs deal with these overloads. 
If we play 3-5-2, expect Dasilva & Hunt to be pegged back, expect the CB’s either side to be pulled out wide to support the wing back on the overloads, leaving their 2 midfield ‘penetrators’ (Hernandez & Klich) the freedom of the box when crosses arrive - which they do at will. I’ve also noted Leeds often cut back their crosses, rather than whip across the box - thus very important for the CM’s to track Hern/Klich and be aware of their positions just inside the area. 

I don’t want us to switch from 4-4-2. We’ll need the two wingers to provide defensive support for the full backs and prevent the CB’s being pulled out, ensuring they defend the box and those crosses. 
Wells & Diedhiou have to play every game together. But for this one they’ll have to work immensely hard. They’ll need to pressure the full backs when on the ball and try to prevent them advancing, and they’ll need one of them to just sit a little bit deeper to get on Phillips’ toes. 
 

3-5-2 would be a disaster in my opinion. 

Wigan’s win playing 3-5-2 wasn’t a disaster 

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50 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’d have Webster, Phillips and Grealish in my England squad. 

I think next season Ben White will almost certainly be playing PL football and he will get an England look I am sure of it.

I am less confident of his ability for England than I am Phillips however.

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6 minutes ago, Harry said:

3-5-2 is absolutely NOT the way to play at Leeds. 
 

They play Bamford on his own. We don’t need 3 marking 1. 
Their strength is down the flanks, creating overlaps and utilising the pace of Harrison & Costa. You can’t let wing backs deal with these overloads. 
If we play 3-5-2, expect Dasilva & Hunt to be pegged back, expect the CB’s either side to be pulled out wide to support the wing back on the overloads, leaving their 2 midfield ‘penetrators’ (Hernandez & Klich) the freedom of the box when crosses arrive - which they do at will. I’ve also noted Leeds often cut back their crosses, rather than whip across the box. 
 

I don’t want us to switch from 4-4-2. We’ll need the two wingers to provide defensive support for the full backs and prevent the CB’s being pulled out, ensuring they defend the box and those crosses. 
Wells & Diedhiou have to play every game together. But for this one they’ll have to work immensely hard. They’ll need to pressure the full backs when on the ball and try to prevent them advancing, and they’ll need one of them to just sit a little bit deeper to get on Phillips’ toes. 
 

3-5-2 would be a disaster in my opinion. 

Slightly out of the box but play Pereira at right back and Hunt ahead of him for this game. Hunt has got great delivery but also defensive minded to support Pereira and Eliasson on left ahead of DaSilva

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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Wigan’s win playing 3-5-2 wasn’t a disaster 

I think 19 shots and only 5 on target, enjoying nearly 80% possession tells you the story of how Wigan got a result. 
i.e. a very profligate Leeds. 

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4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 for me.

Back four of Bentley, Hunt, Kalas(Williams) Benkovic Dasilva

Then either:

Eliasson    Henrikson     Smith (If fit)     Pato

                   Wells       Fam

or:

           Smith     Massengo/Nagy

 Eliasson      Henrikson       Pato

                            Fam

 

Henrikson in that central role can break up the play and get forwards. Shame to drop Wells, but Fam more of a physical focal point with one up top. I think we can hurt them on the break and at set pieces with that 4-2-3-1.

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25 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think 19 shots and only 5 on target, enjoying nearly 80% possession tells you the story of how Wigan got a result. 
i.e. a very profligate Leeds. 

 

24 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

I know they won, but Leeds absolutely battered them all game. Leeds had 77% possession, 36 shots and 15 corners. That win was by chance, not because of 3-5-2. 

Did either of you watch the game? 

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32 minutes ago, Harry said:

3-5-2 is absolutely NOT the way to play at Leeds. 
 

They play Bamford on his own. We don’t need 3 marking 1. 
Their strength is down the flanks, creating overlaps and utilising the pace of Harrison & Costa. You can’t let wing backs deal with these overloads. 
If we play 3-5-2, expect Dasilva & Hunt to be pegged back, expect the CB’s either side to be pulled out wide to support the wing back on the overloads, leaving their 2 midfield ‘penetrators’ (Hernandez & Klich) the freedom of the box when crosses arrive - which they do at will. I’ve also noted Leeds often cut back their crosses, rather than whip across the box - thus very important for the CM’s to track Hern/Klich and be aware of their positions just inside the area. 

I don’t want us to switch from 4-4-2. We’ll need the two wingers to provide defensive support for the full backs and prevent the CB’s being pulled out, ensuring they defend the box and those crosses. 
Wells & Diedhiou have to play every game together. But for this one they’ll have to work immensely hard. They’ll need to pressure the full backs when on the ball and try to prevent them advancing, and they’ll need one of them to just sit a little bit deeper to get on Phillips’ toes. 
 

3-5-2 would be a disaster in my opinion. 

Agree with much of this Harr.  The 3CBs v Bamford doesn’t make sense, but also if Harrison and Costa pin our full-backs we won’t get the ball out into our midfield. ??

29 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Had a quick look at the formations every team that's got a result at Elland Rd have used this season. 

4-2-3-1

Swansea (1-0 win) 
Derby (1-1 draw)
Preston (1-1 draw)

4-1-4-1

Forest (1-1 draw)
Sheff Wed (2-0 win)

4-4-1-1 (Who scored had them down as 4-4-2 with Tomlin up front, but I'd guess he played behind the striker here)

Cardiff (3-3 draw)

5-3-2

Wigan (1-0 win)

 

Going by the above, 4-2-3-1 seems the most successful, I'm not too sure if we have the players to play in that system though. 

I do wonder whether part of Leeds recent issues have come from having to play Costa and Hernandez.  Earlier this season Costa was sub, and Hernandez roamed around elusively.  He then got injured, Costa came in, Forshaw injured too, meaning Klich playing more alongside Phillips than in advance as they’ve gone a bit more 4231 (Phillips and Klich) from 4141 (Phillips as they one).  Hernandez and Costa possibly loses some pressing capability too.

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4 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Back to 352 for me for this one to try and stiffle them, don't normally like picking a team based on stopping the opposition but Leeds are very good and their performance at Brentford shows they are likely to give someone a hammering soon

                          Wells    Diedhiou

                                Paterson

Dasilva          Smith        Henrikson     Pereira

                Baker       Kalas     Benkovic

                               Bentley

 

Wollacott

Hunt

Williams - Starts if Kalas isn't fit, would mean Palmer / O'Dowda taking this spot on the bench as don't believe we have another CB available (Vyner???)

Rowe

Nagy - Starts if Smith isn't fit and Massengo takes his place on the bench

Eliasson

Weimann

                     

Like it a lot.. has to be a 'three' tomorrow

Would think about going ' 3-4-2-1,,with Palmer & Patterson behind Wells...

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3 minutes ago, underhanded said:

                              Fam


     Pato           Henriksen          Weimann

 

                  Rowe        Smith

 

Dasilva   Benkovic    Williams     Hunt  

                           Bentley

No Wells then?  

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10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

 

Did either of you watch the game? 

I’ve watched extended highlights. 
I saw chance after chance after chance being spurned by a wasteful Leeds. I also saw them strike the post and have 2 cleared off the line. And I saw a very very fortunate Wigan goal direct from a corner, courtesy of a horrendous goalkeeper blunder. 
Their 3-5-2 set up just meant pressure, pressure, pressure. And they were incredibly fortunate to get a result. I’m sure any Wigan fan will agree. 
 

Edit. And if you look at those many chances, the majority come from the wide areas. 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ve watched extended highlights. 
I saw chance after chance after chance being spurned by a wasteful Leeds. I also saw them strike the post and have 2 cleared off the line. And I saw a very very fortunate Wigan goal direct from a corner, courtesy of a horrendous goalkeeper blunder. 
Their 3-5-2 set up just meant pressure, pressure, pressure. And they were incredibly fortunate to get a result. I’m sure any Wigan fan will agree. 
 

Edit. And if you look at those many chances, the majority come from the wide areas. 

Wigan made errors in and out of possession. It wasn’t the formation that gave Leeds the shots and possession. It was Wigan errors and lack of composure in possession

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8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ve watched extended highlights. 
I saw chance after chance after chance being spurned by a wasteful Leeds. I also saw them strike the post and have 2 cleared off the line. And I saw a very very fortunate Wigan goal direct from a corner, courtesy of a horrendous goalkeeper blunder. 
Their 3-5-2 set up just meant pressure, pressure, pressure. And they were incredibly fortunate to get a result. I’m sure any Wigan fan will agree. 
 

Edit. And if you look at those many chances, the majority come from the wide areas. 

I don’t believe Wigan’s formation was the reason for them winning either!  They made 100 successful passes (180 attempted).  Full stop, that’s a woeful amount attempted, let alone made.  That is largely being their back 5 got pinned.  Just watched some Wyscout stuff with Harrison pressing their RB with Alioski helping.  Ayling and Costa will do the same, but Costa not as good at it.

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In this game I'd try and match Leeds who play 4141.

We need to be solid and have lots of energy. Especially covering wide.

I'd play...

________________Bents________________

Kalas___Benkovic____Baker____DaSilva

_____________Henriksen_______________

Weimann____Nagy___Pato_____Eliasson

________________Wells__________________

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6 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Wigan made errors in and out of possession. It wasn’t the formation that gave Leeds the shots and possession. It was Wigan errors and lack of composure in possession

Well, as ever Dave, we’ll have to agree to disagree. 
I personally feel that playing 3-5-2 will see us suffer against Leeds’ strength area - pace, width, overloads. You need a player responsible for the winger and another responsible for the full back. The worst way to do that is to play 3 at the back. 

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

In this game I'd try and match Leeds who play 4141.

We need to be solid and have lots of energy. Especially covering wide.

I'd play...

________________Bents________________

Kalas___Benkovic____Baker____DaSilva

_____________Henriksen_______________

Weimann____Nagy___Pato_____Eliasson

________________Wells__________________

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Marley Watkins in one of the wide positions. Much more defensively sound than NE and JP

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well, as ever Dave, we’ll have to agree to disagree. 
I personally feel that playing 3-5-2 will see us suffer against Leeds’ strength area - pace, width, overloads. You need a player responsible for the winger and another responsible for the full back. The worst way to do that is to play 3 at the back. 

We used to always agree! One of us has changed!

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The one way to beat Leeds imo, is to look for freekicks. We could do them at set pieces.

We've really got some strength at set pieces now. Williams, Kalas, Benkovic, Henriksen, Weimann, Baker, Wells, Famara, Watkins...all strong in the box and good at attacking a ball.

We aren't going to outplay them, or have more possession. I see corners and freekicks as our biggest threat.

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19 minutes ago, spudski said:

The one way to beat Leeds imo, is to look for freekicks. We could do them at set pieces.

We've really got some strength at set pieces now. Williams, Kalas, Benkovic, Henriksen, Weimann, Baker, Wells, Famara, Watkins...all strong in the box and good at attacking a ball.

We aren't going to outplay them, or have more possession. I see corners and freekicks as our biggest threat.

Totally agree. Given Eliasson's delivery can we fit him in while remaining defensively solid!? I'm torn.

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53 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

No Wells then?  

Yeah, as much as I appreciate that this is a one up front game and that Diedhiou is defensively invaluable, I just don't want to drop Wells. He needs to be playing and scoring. 

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8 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Back to 352 for me for this one to try and stiffle them, don't normally like picking a team based on stopping the opposition but Leeds are very good and their performance at Brentford shows they are likely to give someone a hammering soon

                          Wells    Diedhiou

                                Paterson

Dasilva          Smith        Henrikson     Pereira

                Baker       Kalas     Benkovic

                               Bentley

 

Wollacott

Hunt

Williams - Starts if Kalas isn't fit, would mean Palmer / O'Dowda taking this spot on the bench as don't believe we have another CB available (Vyner???)

Rowe

Nagy - Starts if Smith isn't fit and Massengo takes his place on the bench

Eliasson

Weimann

                     

UPDATE

I've decided to make a late change to the starting line up and Eliasson will take Pato's place tomorrow, although he isn't at his best centrally we would need to find a way to get him into wide area's when we have the ball, also with the amount of height in the team above his delivery from set pieces could be crucial. Defensively he would need to works his socks off and close down Phillips at every oppurtunity to try and limit him from dictating the play as much as possible.

 

It's been a tough decision and Pato hasn't taken it well, off for a glass of red following by a glass of white! Who'd be a manager....

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17 hours ago, Harry said:

I’ve watched extended highlights. 
I saw chance after chance after chance being spurned by a wasteful Leeds. I also saw them strike the post and have 2 cleared off the line. And I saw a very very fortunate Wigan goal direct from a corner, courtesy of a horrendous goalkeeper blunder. 
Their 3-5-2 set up just meant pressure, pressure, pressure. And they were incredibly fortunate to get a result. I’m sure any Wigan fan will agree. 
 

Edit. And if you look at those many chances, the majority come from the wide areas. 

It's funny though how often teams that defend in numbers often have the other team missing chance after chance.

Less space and less time to shoot meaning they often miss their chances.

It might be that 5221 would be the best formation but then there's no space for Wells. 

A bit like Millwall system that beat us. 

I don't mind if Wells doesn't start if he does not suit our game plan for this particular game.

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Fammy & Wells both need to start, but we cannot play with 2 wide midfielders in both Pato and Elliasson as Leeds would run riot in midfield if we only have 2 CMs. 

So for me 4-3-3, bring in Rowe to CM for either Pato or Eliasson, personally I'd drop Pato (despite his good form since coming back from loan) and give Elliasson the freedom to roam right or left.

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