AshtonGreat Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Gazred said: That was my point really, the Pep 'era' will likely be over. I can't see him wanting to manage another season if it's only domestic football. Surely he's partly responsible for this happening? Will be a bit off if he jumps ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Unsure, I think UEFA are pretty determined on this one. They have to send out and be be seen to send out a strong message. PSG next? They also banned the iconic AC Milan in 2018/19 I think. Or was it this season? Anyway imagine the prestige of a club who has won 7 European Cups/CLs playing in the Europa League? UEFA didn't mind Hopefully this will give fresh impetus to the EFL too. Really hope your right, but somehow as in all things in life money seems to talk, don't be surprised though if they get little more than a slap on the wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Will this carry over to the Europa league as well? Ie 5th getting a champions league spot so will a team 1 place lower than normal also get a Europa spot? Could have all of Leicester, Sheffield Utd and Wolves in Europe next season at this rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Welp. City could be docked points when the PL does its own homework. Quite probably an exodus in the summer, including Pep. A cheeky bid for Raheem wouldn't hurt whenif we go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 9 hours ago, AshtonGreat said: Surely he's partly responsible for this happening? Will be a bit off if he jumps ship It's actually from a period before he joined. The independent Adjudicatory Chamber of the Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) said City had broken the rules by "overstating its sponsorship revenue in its accounts and in the break-even information submitted to Uefa between 2012 and 2016", adding that the club "failed to cooperate in the investigation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Could be relegated to League 2!? Seriously doubt that they would do enforce that but seeing what's happened to Saracens..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 12 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said: Whilst I applaud FFP for making clubs more sustainable, I still feel it gives the historic big clubs like Manure etc an advantage as their commercial revenue is massive compared to the likes of Man CIty. Exactly - FFP suits the existing ‘big’ clubs down to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 16 hours ago, TomF said: So as it stands Sheffield United are in the last CL spot?! Can we worry that they're coming for us yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 UEFA have wisely gone for a stringent punishment as CAS will reduce it down for sure. The trouble with this situation is that Man City are richer than UEFA as are PSG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 14 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said: Can’t see them banning the most corrupt club in world football tho,a certain Real Madrid I don't know if they (Real Madrid) actually breach FFP though, but a ban for them for whatever reason would certainly be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Gazred said: It's actually from a period before he joined. The independent Adjudicatory Chamber of the Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) said City had broken the rules by "overstating its sponsorship revenue in its accounts and in the break-even information submitted to Uefa between 2012 and 2016", adding that the club "failed to cooperate in the investigation". Oh right, interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Another good piece from David Conn. He is in fact a Man City fan but shows a degree of objectivity rather lacking in the rest of them! https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/15/manchester-city-disrespect-uefa-misinformation-sweeping-allegations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 https://news.yahoo.com/report-man-city-dossier-european-175401710.html Interesting stuff indeed. I have a feeling that some of the RPTs of other sides- think Bayern and Juventus- may well be fair value but it absolutely needs investigating. Juventus have spent a lot but sold a lot and Bayern have banged the drum about FFP so I'd be surprised if those two are in breach, cooking the books in that way but it must be investigated and investigated properly! FFP suits those two in varying ways anyway, so them being in breach and doing a Man City would be a turnup. Must be investigated properly though! €17m per season for FIAT to Juventus, off the back of a quick search...doesn't seem excessive? Maybe some kind of adjustment but a club of their size, their history, known as the biggest in Italy domestically even if AC Milan have the European history, I'd be surprised if there is a huge adjustment necessary? Bayern with Audi could be pretty interesting though. Seems a major sponsorship- once again though, is there a huge amount of difference in some ways in size and history between Bayern and Man Utd? Look how much the latter gain, even without in recent times, regularly hitting the heights domestically and in Europe! I don't think Bayern and Juventus are the same as Man City and PSG at this stage. Still though, you investigate and if necessary and punish one, you must investigate and if necessary punish all! OTOH, BMW offered a huge deal to Bayern- which ultimately fell down and Audi offered a significantly increased new one...if BMW and Audi are competitors that can give a certain commercial rationale to it too? It's a hard one to call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Looks like expansion of investigation? https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/18/manchester-city-could-face-new-uefa-investigation-into-abu-dhabi-sponsors-football People say take it to civil courts etc, outside Sporting Structure. My response to that would be 'Fine, that is of course your prerogative but you will automatically be banned from European club competitions for the duration of legal action outside the CAS'. Whether it would stand up is a different matter but seems quite a fair way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 22:40, mozo said: It begs the question, should Man City fans be proud of their success in recent years? Not only was it bought, but it was crooked too... Yes if you are a fan of beautiful football. Man City have affected positively football. Fans and coaches have been affected positively. Morality at the top? There is a naivety about it. It is based upon greed and its a club Bristol City want in. Bristol City have a team with no local players in it. That team is funded by Mr Lansdown who legally avoids paying taxes basing himself in Guernsey. Its a push to say BCFC play beautiful football. On a community level Man City really are on another level to BCFC. On a educational level Bristol football clubs can go to the Etihad and learn from them and access their services. Fans, parents with their kids can do similar .. I was in awe (jealous) of what they do on my visit to their training facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 22:31, JonDolman said: Man City spend millions from oil money, Liverpool spend millions from millions of fans that are not scousers that have never even seen them play. Don't see much of a difference really. Maybe just make it so everyone has the same limit like I think rugby has. That would make it far more interesting imo. I think you will find there is an enormous difference even with the comparison of where the money came from which anyway is inaccurate; Liverpool have also had huge investment from ownership although not on the same wavelength as Man C it appears. All of that said misses the point though which is that Man C broke FFP and, as far as we know, Liverpool did not. FFP of course relates to over spend, cooking the books or bending them by certain shell companies or off sets such as ground sales to a so called third party. Lots of things Man C have done is outside the rule book. And let's not forget they have done it before. All clubs are under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 22:31, JonDolman said: Man City spend millions from oil money, Liverpool spend millions from millions of fans that are not scousers that have never even seen them play. Don't see much of a difference really. Maybe just make it so everyone has the same limit like I think rugby has. That would make it far more interesting imo. Although Rugby is likely to change its rules to become more flexible in the wake of the Saracens issue. A lot of people feel that Saracens became victims of their own success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 22:42, Kid in the Riot said: My point exactly, all of Saracens recent league and European titles are tainted, right? They were illegitimatly won. Saracens and Man City are vastly different cases. Saracens became victims of their own success. They produced a lot of their own players, yet they had to pay top money to prevent poaching.Also because they had so many internationals they had to have not just a big squad , but a big equally talented squad. Unlike Soccer , club and international matches clash and players can miss up to 8 games a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, JonDolman said: The rules are wrong is my point. They're there to protect the clubs with the most fans who can generate the most money. Doesn't explain though: a) Leicester- albeit they did break FFP in 2014 at this level and got a fine, when the rules were in place for that- there was dispute over naming rights. b) Resurgence of Atletico Madrid- they were a basketcase when Simeone went there, albeit a big club. c) Rise of Atalanta. Actually sold their youth products to invest and move forward. d) Ajax in the last couple few years performing strongly in football- a major club but odds stacked against them in modern football. e) The return of Borussia Dortmund- again a major club albeit one who were close to bankruptcy, but they've done it right from Klopp onwards! f) Sheffield United...League One 4 seasons ago and going nowhere under Clough going into summer 2016 to their current position! g) Rise of Wolves- though the superagent thing is a massive advantage- was at Championship level and surely still helping now. Now you can argue some of these either way but these all happened within the era of FFP. Your other point about to protect clubs with most fans who can generate the most money is interesting too- in other words the traditional elite. What are or were AC Milan if not part of that elite? 7 European Cups makes them a huge club, despite their current travails- an iconic club some might say, at the San Siro. They got an FFP ban in 2018! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, JonDolman said: I am not sure AC Milan have such a global fan base as teams like Man Utd, Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona. There will always be examples of clubs who can overachieve on a budget. But it's surely hard to maintain that success long term. You're right- not that top 4 or 5, they possibly missed the boat too, had they had their European success later, and the style with which they often won those big trophies, thjey may have got intol that top 5-6 I digress. You might find this interesting. Regardless of global fanbase, they're a big hitter, were part of the elite until not so long ago...and UEFA banned them! https://travel.zeelo.co/the-top-15-biggest-and-most-supported-football-teams-in-the-world/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Couple of bits of news. https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/man-city-could-be-in-next-year-s-champions-league-if-ban-frozen_sto7673003/story.shtml This is to the CAS so that's fair, if it was to courts beyond that my scenario may come back into play but Man City would basically need to ask the CAS for Provisional measures- these would suspend a ban until the full case has been heard. Would be interesting to see past precedents, whether past FFP bans have seen the Provisional measures granted- common sense says they should be but... Additionally, Simon Jordan says thjat if ban upheld then Man City should be relegated...however there has been some talk already about this unlikely prospect, and from what I've read, EFL regs state that a club in that scenario would have to start again in League Two!! OTOH, EFL FFP applies in such a way in that League that you may as well not bother having it- and 60% of salary caps would nonetheless have them going up through the Leagues before the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 23:34, Redstoke said: Absolutely, a plastic club who have been bankrolled by multi billionaires. I shed no tears for them at all. Fxck them. Harsh to call Man City plastic Always been a well supported club even before the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: Harsh to call Man City plastic Always been a well supported club even before the money Yes mate short or missing memories about here. Proper club absolutely sustainable yet playing catch up with historic Big boys. I wonder how PSG manage but don't begrudge them crashing the exclusive club either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Man City a proper club certainly, still don't like what they- or maybe more accurately their owners have been doing though and if upheld, I think a CL ban is fair! PSG are an interesting one. Like Man City basically but if anything bigger underachievers- the main club in a city like Paris and I think, well based on honours before takeover not necessarily a small club, albeit one with a lot untapped potential. What's good for Man City though has to be good for PSG and I hope that investigation will also get going- with the same punishment if proven! In fact, apologies for the source (linked to The Sun) but last squad pre takeover...not bad though surely mostly past best! https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/326563/psgs-final-squad-qatari-takeover-cult-heroes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Natchfever said: Yes mate short or missing memories about here. Proper club absolutely sustainable yet playing catch up with historic Big boys. I wonder how PSG manage but don't begrudge them crashing the exclusive club either. Yeah should be looking at clubs like Man Utd who have over £500m of debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Simon Jordan says thjat if ban upheld then Man City should be relegated...however there has been some talk already about this unlikely prospect, and from what I've read, EFL regs state that a club in that scenario would have to start again in League Two!! That would be for failing league FFP wouldn't it? thought I read that league and CL FFP were different somewhat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 hours ago, hodge said: That would be for failing league FFP wouldn't it? thought I read that league and CL FFP were different somewhat Depends if they look back and the fair value adjusted- using the same evidence as UEFA? It's really a grey area though, but it's very unlikely- put it that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 19/02/2020 at 21:18, Davefevs said: Just tweeted that this might be LJ’s best interview yet. Worth finding 20 minutes to watch / listen. Too much repetition of 'if you like' for my taste. Arhhhh Nicholas Parsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 hours ago, havanatopia said: Too much repetition of 'if you like' for my taste. Arhhhh Nicholas Parsons. Deviation from Lee Johnson's interview Havana! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Stories tonight that PL clubs want Man City punished too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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