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And Its Smith

Man City banned from Europe for two years FFP

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No doubt this will be reduced to one year on appeal. Probably means Pep leaves in the summer.  I’m torn on FFP at the top level. Why is it okay for teams like Chelsea to build their base but then clubs that decide to do it a little later get punished?  

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9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

No doubt this will be reduced to one year on appeal. Probably means Pep leaves in the summer.  I’m torn on FFP at the top level. Why is it okay for teams like Chelsea to build their base but then clubs that decide to do it a little later get punished?  

 For the teams in the premier league the simple answer is Leicester.  The top clubs got together and said we can't have that happening again. Hence how Ffp is structured in the Prem pretty much guarantees it wont happen again.

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Probably the end of an era for them even if reduced on appeal.

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2 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

 For the teams in the premier league the simple answer is Leicester.  The top clubs got together and said we can't have that happening again. Hence how Ffp is structured in the Prem pretty much guarantees it wont happen again.

What, like how all clubs have agreed to lose to Liverpool, to stop Leicester doing again this season..?!

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So, without knowing the details of the rules... how can they possibly have broken European FFP but NOT premier League FFP..? 
Surely they must be on a par, if not more limited at PL level..?

In which case, when will they be docked points in the PL..? 

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Massive ruling. Ballsy, and exactly what was needed as they were starting to look ridiculous fining clubs a pittance and achieving sweet f all. This is now an actual deterrent. 

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3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So, without knowing the details of the rules... how can they possibly have broken European FFP but NOT premier League FFP..? 
Surely they must be on a par, if not more limited at PL level..?

In which case, when will they be docked points in the PL..? 

Premier League FFP more relaxed. It is weird though as Championship is quite strict. Leeds needed a striker in Jan but couldn’t sign one other than on loan as knew it would push them past the FFP threshold. 

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7 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

That is huge! No doubt will be appealed and reduced but that would have a devastating impact on Man City.

Lets see if UEFA take the same action against the likes of PSG!

Did PSG get punished? 

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10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Premier League FFP more relaxed. It is weird though as Championship is quite strict. Leeds needed a striker in Jan but couldn’t sign one other than on loan as knew it would push them past the FFP threshold. 

Ok, but surely PL rules must fall within UEFA rules..?! 

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12 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So, without knowing the details of the rules... how can they possibly have broken European FFP but NOT premier League FFP..? 
Surely they must be on a par, if not more limited at PL level..?

In which case, when will they be docked points in the PL..? 

£35m per year in the Prem. €30m (£25m) per accounting period (3 years) in UEFA competitions. 
I believe Man City’s issue is the source of their income. It seems their owners ‘influenced’ associated companies to sponsor them, boosting revenue, and meeting the limit. 

1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ok, but surely PL rules must fall within UEFA rules..?! 

The PL isn’t a UEFA competition so UEFA rules have nothing to do with the PL

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16 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So, without knowing the details of the rules... how can they possibly have broken European FFP but NOT premier League FFP..? 
Surely they must be on a par, if not more limited at PL level..?

In which case, when will they be docked points in the PL..? 

Probably this season, when it means bugger all.

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And this is why people need to understand (like Oscars article) why it can't be like the good old days. If you want to progress as a club, be sustainable and run within FFP, having a bigger commercial income needs to happen. I really do believe we are ahead of the curve.  This also explains our buying "one for the future" tactic. As clubs around is fall, we are becoming stronger and stronger. 

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12 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

£35m per year in the Prem. €30m (£25m) per accounting period (3 years) in UEFA competitions. 
I believe Man City’s issue is the source of their income. It seems their owners ‘influenced’ associated companies to sponsor them, boosting revenue, and meeting the limit. 

The PL isn’t a UEFA competition so UEFA rules have nothing to do with the PL

Read about it a bit, not 100% sure, but believe it is the source of the income, not the amount as such.

FFP for UEFA seems to cap the amount the owners can put in. The leaked emails suggest of the £60m or whatever sponsorship from Etihad only £8m was coming from the company and the balance from the owner, and was being used by the owner as a way of hiding his contribution.

Not entirely sure that one should be against the rules and one not, arguably income is income, but that seems to be the basis of it all.

Edited by cityexile

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32 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So, without knowing the details of the rules... how can they possibly have broken European FFP but NOT premier League FFP..? 
Surely they must be on a par, if not more limited at PL level..?

In which case, when will they be docked points in the PL..? 

PL FFP is very generous tbh. 

30m euros over 3 years the UEFA limit, whereas in PL it's £105m. 

The UEFA deductions maybe a bit more than the PL but it's very hard to fail FFP in the PL. They're fine now, this is for historic breaches. 

UEFA though, well done- well done indeed!! :clapping::clapping:

PSG next please. 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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45 minutes ago, RedDave said:

No doubt this will be reduced to one year on appeal. Probably means Pep leaves in the summer.  I’m torn on FFP at the top level. Why is it okay for teams like Chelsea to build their base but then clubs that decide to do it a little later get punished?  

To be fair to pep he will probably stay at Man City to try and stop the Liverpool juggernaut over the next few seasons,who I’m I trying to kid he will be offski to spend another boatload of money somewhere else where he can try and win the champions league 

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14 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I doubt it will work like that. More likely an extra place will go into the qualifiers 

Nope as it stands Luke Freeman could be playing UCL footy 🤣

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Man United finish 5th take man city's place. This is what happens when the Arabs take over a club and throw endless amounts of money around. Every time you fill up with petrol you fund man City. This has to be good news for all well run clubs like ours. Maybe this is why wally wont fund the sags at the minimal. 

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1 hour ago, Gazred said:

Probably the end of an era for them even if reduced on appeal.

Hardly. Their money will still talk and attract top players. 

May affect whether Pep wants to stay though as he's smashed through domestic trophies. Only Europe left.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Top 4 qualify automatically now... 

Freeman in the CL, surely not! :whistle:

But if Man City are banned it won’t mean fifth place goes into champions league I doubt. Would expect extra place to be given for all the teams like Celtic, who go through qualifiers, to fight over 

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

But if Man City are banned it won’t mean fifth place goes into champions league I doubt. Would expect extra place to be given for all the teams like Celtic, who go through qualifiers, to fight over 

Don't think so as the number of places are given out based on your teams performance in previous years, so England has 4 places, how they are decided would be up to the PL and FA, only time UEFA would get involved would be in a situation that would give us a situation where we had 6 teams, if someone wins the CL, but doesn't finish top 4 and an English team with the EL and don't finish top 4.

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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

But if Man City are banned it won’t mean fifth place goes into champions league I doubt. Would expect extra place to be given for all the teams like Celtic, who go through qualifiers, to fight over 

UEFA rule 4.08 states: "A club which is not admitted to the competition is replaced by the next best-placed club in the top domestic championship of the same association, provided the new club fulfils the admission criteria. In this case, the access list (see Annex A) is adjusted accordingly."

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Given that they've utterly taken the mickey for 12 years, the punishment feels extraordinarily light, even more so when you consider the likelihood of this punishment being reduced even further on appeal. 

A fry cry from the days when many neutrals liked them! 

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10 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said:

Hardly. Their money will still talk and attract top players. 

May affect whether Pep wants to stay though as he's smashed through domestic trophies. Only Europe left.

He’s not very good in Europe and that is what his record will be judged on.Flat track bully’s that he has had in Bayern and Man City in the domestic competition have failed miserably in Europe under his watch,he’s best getting back to Barcelona while Messi still has a bit about him

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11 minutes ago, Smokey said:

UEFA rule 4.08 states: "A club which is not admitted to the competition is replaced by the next best-placed club in the top domestic championship of the same association, provided the new club fulfils the admission criteria. In this case, the access list (see Annex A) is adjusted accordingly."

Blimey. Fair enough. Cheers

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13 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said:

Hardly. Their money will still talk and attract top players. 

May affect whether Pep wants to stay though as he's smashed through domestic trophies. Only Europe left.

That was my point really, the Pep 'era' will likely be over. I can't see him wanting to manage another season if it's only domestic football.

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46 minutes ago, TwoSheds said:

Man United finish 5th take man city's place. This is what happens when the Arabs take over a club and throw endless amounts of money around. Every time you fill up with petrol you fund man City. This has to be good news for all well run clubs like ours. Maybe this is why wally wont fund the sags at the minimal. 

The UAE is hardly the only source of petrol....

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37 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

He’s not very good in Europe and that is what his record will be judged on.Flat track bully’s that he has had in Bayern and Man City in the domestic competition have failed miserably in Europe under his watch,he’s best getting back to Barcelona while Messi still has a bit about him

It's a pretty high bar being set to say he's not that good in Europe! 

With Barcelona 2 wins, 2 semi finals. 

Bayern 3 semi finals. 

Granted his Barcelona side especially were really magnificent, but that's a pretty high bar!

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's a pretty high bar being set to say he's not that good in Europe! 

With Barcelona 2 wins, 2 semi finals. 

Bayern 3 semi finals. 

Granted his Barcelona side especially were really magnificent, but that's a pretty high bar!

Hence why I said messi and the 3 behind him were not bad either which were at the club when he took over,his record at other clubs is not great as you pointed out with the players he had

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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's a pretty high bar being set to say he's not that good in Europe! 

With Barcelona 2 wins, 2 semi finals. 

Bayern 3 semi finals. 

Granted his Barcelona side especially were really magnificent, but that's a pretty high bar!

Jose Mourinho record is even better while playing crap football with less talented footballers at his disposal much of the time 

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1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

And this is why people need to understand (like Oscars article) why it can't be like the good old days. If you want to progress as a club, be sustainable and run within FFP, having a bigger commercial income needs to happen. I really do believe we are ahead of the curve.  This also explains our buying "one for the future" tactic. As clubs around is fall, we are becoming stronger and stronger. 

Doesn't it also prove Oscar's point that money is ruining the modern game? Man C cheat (financially) to be the best. Sheffield Wednesday, Derby etc cheat too. Look at Fifa itself. It's a money game and money corrupts.

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1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

He’s not very good in Europe and that is what his record will be judged on.Flat track bully’s that he has had in Bayern and Man City in the domestic competition have failed miserably in Europe under his watch,he’s best getting back to Barcelona while Messi still has a bit about him

A pretty ingenious way to speak of a genius manager. He has taken the best of the rest (managers) and blended them.
 

His weakness is on a downturn, funnily enough because he’s so equipped he doesn’t have the experience. 
 

Don’t get me wrong he was handed a groomed Barca squad, and he’s had a chequebook, but Bayern impresses me most because he did play a Germanic version of his game. Man City are at times sublime to watch just as Barca were. 
 

His issue is in defence. But that’s the same for most. It’s the hardest part to get right. I would say in football standards have improved vastly all over the pitch bar defence. The defences of the late 90’s would wipe the floor with their international compatriots nowadays. 

Edited by 29AR

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2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

His issue is in defence. But that’s the same for most. It’s the hardest part to get right. I would say in football standards have improved vastly all over the pitch bar defence. The defences of the late 90’s would wipe the floor with their international compatriots nowadays. 

Sorry but getting the defence right is the easy bit

Any manager who comes into a struggling team starts with getting it right at the back

As for the 90s defence They are bound to be better than todays  as back then a defender could tackle a forward and make contact

with a forward without getting a card or giving away a pen (Football was still a contact sport back then)

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8 minutes ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Whilst I applaud FFP for making clubs more sustainable, I still feel it gives the historic big clubs like Manure etc an advantage as their commercial revenue is massive compared to the likes of Man CIty.

Nail on the head 

Old school money clubs not wanting upstarts crashing the party

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Think the problem UEFA may have is they set a precident by letting PSG get away with it previously. Also the people who have found Man City guilty are part of UEFA not independent as they say they are. 

Be interesting to see who wins the case.

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23 minutes ago, 29AR said:

A pretty ingenious way to speak of a genius manager. He has taken the best of the rest (managers) and blended them.
 

His weakness is on a downturn, funnily enough because he’s so equipped he doesn’t have the experience. 
 

Don’t get me wrong he was handed a groomed Barca squad, and he’s had a chequebook, but Bayern impresses me most because he did play a Germanic version of his game. Man City are at times sublime to watch just as Barca were. 
 

His issue is in defence. But that’s the same for most. It’s the hardest part to get right. I would say in football standards have improved vastly all over the pitch bar defence. The defences of the late 90’s would wipe the floor with their international compatriots nowadays. 

Is he a genius manager tho really because it doesn’t seem it in my eyesight,let’s be honest he took over a club that were winning things anyway and has he achieved anything better than the previous managers then the  answer has to be no

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1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Hence why I said messi and the 3 behind him were not bad either which were at the club when he took over,his record at other clubs is not great as you pointed out with the players he had

Fair. Think his record at Bayern okay...but he seemed to hit a wall, always lost to Spanish sides in the semi finals.

Mind you, so did pretty well everyone at that time! Check the CL and EL Finalists for those 3 seasons.

Less talented than the very best yes, but don't think an Inter with Eto'o and Milito as part of a front 3 to name 2 all that weak. Chelsea well we know, Porto with lots of Portuguese internationals, several of whom followed him to Chelsea and check out the depth he had at Real Madrid! 

He never maybe had the best squad in the world, unlike Pep at Barca but his squads in general, with the possible exception of Porto? They weren't half bad!

Mourinho's record is superior but there's not a lot in it in terms of raw numbers.

That said, weighted for relative squad strength it certainly helps his case further.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He's on 5Live talking about it now.

Have to say Man City fans are taking this appallingly, thought they were a fairly down to earth bunch of fans. But apparently it's everyone else's fault- mostly UEFAs.

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Lee Johnson just took us one place closer to Europe and we weren't even playing. Is there nothing this man can't do.

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