Light in midfield

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

He wouldn’t have made much of a difference. 

 

I thought he would have made all the difference..but in a different system.

[old_eastender]

2 hours ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

LJ had his hands tied today due to injuries. However Massengo looks miles off the pace in terms of his awareness to the game. The lad has bags of potential but today showed he still has a lot of developing to do.

With Smith injured and Nagy seemingly still not right after his initial injury we look very light in the middle of the pitch. 

A lot of fans were calling for Morrell or Walsh to be recalled. There’s two sides to the arguement squad fillers/development.

When considering our position in the league I feel we should have recalled one of them to cover. If Henriksen gets injured it leaves us with Massengo and Rowe as natural central midfielders.

LJ did Not have his hands tied today, he could and should of started with 3 in CM by playing Rowe instead of a sick (and bang out of form) Weimann! 

[nickolas]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I never mentioned anything about his playing career 

I merely made a point about recruitment / playing plan and a sign , and not the first of a lack of clarity / joined up thinking 

But he has bought a boat load of players identical to his powder puff, ticky takka sideways, backwards style! 

This team has been crying out for some midfield physical domination since he became head coach  

 

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

The fact we have been lightweight in midfield for the last 4 years....with no sign of things changing....I have to disagree 

I think his latest midfield acquisition is a sign of change.

Too little, too late, though unfortunately. 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I never mentioned anything about his playing career 

I merely made a point about recruitment / playing plan and a sign , and not the first of a lack of clarity / joined up thinking 

Ok no problem, misunderstood your post

 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

They command authority until players see through any managerial weaknesses they have.  If they’re good, they’ll retain it.

Exactly, Lampard, Zidane and Gerrard have all been pretty successful thus far hence using them as examples

[ashton_fan]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Korey was clearly missed today.

And Brownhill

[Super]

9 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

And Brownhill

And Marvin Elliott

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, nickolas said:

But he has bought a boat load of players identical to his powder puff, ticky takka sideways, backwards style! 

This team has been crying out for some midfield physical domination since he became head coach  

 

It was clear what he was doing to anyone with a semblance of football knowledge.

In an era of powerful, pacey Championship players LJ started to collect midfield mini-me’s. The absolute classic management mistake of building a team in an image of yourself. 

I think he’s realised now - probably too late - the error of his ways.

The only chance is converting players from other positions to play midfield roles. Though Taylor-Moore had potential as a defensive midfielder but he’s been sacked off so that option no longer exists. 

Let’s hope LJs got some other rabbits up his sleeve. Let’s hope so. 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, nickolas said:

But he has bought a boat load of players identical to his powder puff, ticky takka sideways, backwards style! 

This team has been crying out for some midfield physical domination since he became head coach  

 

I disagree with this. I don’t think any of the players signed in midfield are in the ‘tiki taki, sideways, backwards’ style. I think they’re all ‘runners’ with very little technical ability or composure. 
Nagy is a runner. HNM runs about but lacks composure, Smith is a runner. Cod is a runner. Weimann is a runner. Brownhill was a runner. 
 

We don’t have a single midfielder who I’d 100% say is ‘happy’ on the ball, edge of his own box, facing his own goal. None who have the technique and composure to receive a pass under pressure and be able to retain possession and pop a simple ball back off again. 
 

We did have one. Pack. But we definitely don’t have one now. 
The central midfield is MOST DEFINITELY NOT built in the managers own playing style. Absolutely no way. 

[nickolas]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

I disagree with this. I don’t think any of the players signed in midfield are in the ‘tiki taki, sideways, backwards’ style. I think they’re all ‘runners’ with very little technical ability or composure. 
Nagy is a runner. HNM runs about but lacks composure, Smith is a runner. Cod is a runner. Weimann is a runner. Brownhill was a runner. 
 

We don’t have a single midfielder who I’d 100% say is ‘happy’ on the ball, edge of his own box, facing his own goal. None who have the technique and composure to receive a pass under pressure and be able to retain possession and pop a simple ball back off again. 
 

We did have one. Pack. But we definitely don’t have one now. 
The central midfield is MOST DEFINITELY NOT built in the managers own playing style. Absolutely no way. 

But theyre all c5ft 7, slight in physical shape and cant tackle. Exactly like the manager!

Tactics create the poor quality on the ball. We put ourselves under pressure with slower build up play than snails pace. For a long time now the way to stop us is to push up high, like Leeds do, and panic us into hoofing the ball long. 
Midfielders run away from the ball. Nobody wants it unless the easy LJ sideways, backwards pass is on. 
LJ has even bemoaned lack of physicality and height recently, when hes the one buying clones!

Hopefully Hendriksen is the start of beefing up our midfield going forward. 

[Bodiesaffer]

15 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Korey was clearly missed today.

Wouldn’t of changed a thing...

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Bodiesaffer said:

Wouldn’t of changed a thing...

So we would have played exactly the same with him? Every single part of the game would have been the same?

[Phileas Fogg]

44 minutes ago, nickolas said:

But theyre all c5ft 7, slight in physical shape and cant tackle. Exactly like the manager!

Tactics create the poor quality on the ball. We put ourselves under pressure with slower build up play than snails pace. For a long time now the way to stop us is to push up high, like Leeds do, and panic us into hoofing the ball long. 
Midfielders run away from the ball. Nobody wants it unless the easy LJ sideways, backwards pass is on. 
LJ has even bemoaned lack of physicality and height recently, when hes the one buying clones!

Hopefully Hendriksen is the start of beefing up our midfield going forward. 

No they aren't? The only one I can think of who's around that height is Liam Walsh.

HNM, Nagy, Henriksen, Smith (our primary CMs) are all taller than that by some margin. A very lazy thing to say.

[Bodiesaffer]

25 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So we would have played exactly the same with him? Every single part of the game would have been the same?

Yes, they gave us a MasterClass in how football is played.  Our midfield are too slow with the ball most of the time. No movement off it. I’m not 100% it’s the players,  more of how there coached.  We should of got dirty and kicked lumps out of them. Force a change in there mentality. 

When your struggling to get out your own half you get closer to each other, set the triangles up and pass your way out. 
 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Bodiesaffer said:

Yes, they gave us a MasterClass in how football is played.  Our midfield are too slow with the ball most of the time. No movement off it. I’m not 100% it’s the players,  more of how there coached.  We should of got dirty and kicked lumps out of them. Force a change in there mentality. 

When your struggling to get out your own half you get closer to each other, set the triangles up and pass your way out. 
 

 

But Korey would not have done the same things as our other midfielders. He has different attributes. Would have brought other things to the team.

I thought we missed his aggression and leadership massively yesterday.

[spudski]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I disagree with this. I don’t think any of the players signed in midfield are in the ‘tiki taki, sideways, backwards’ style. I think they’re all ‘runners’ with very little technical ability or composure. 
Nagy is a runner. HNM runs about but lacks composure, Smith is a runner. Cod is a runner. Weimann is a runner. Brownhill was a runner. 
 

We don’t have a single midfielder who I’d 100% say is ‘happy’ on the ball, edge of his own box, facing his own goal. None who have the technique and composure to receive a pass under pressure and be able to retain possession and pop a simple ball back off again. 
 

We did have one. Pack. But we definitely don’t have one now. 
The central midfield is MOST DEFINITELY NOT built in the managers own playing style. Absolutely no way. 

Exactly this...they epitomise what LJ calls ' busy bee's'.

Very little composure. As you rightly say, Pack had that.

The ball in our Midfield is often like a hot potato. 

[Bodiesaffer]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But Korey would not have done the same things as our other midfielders. He has different attributes. Would have brought other things to the team.

I thought we missed his aggression and leadership massively yesterday.

You could be right, we will never know, still feel we would have been the same one sided match.  More I think about it the more I think it’s LJ setting us up to fail with poor tactical decisions. Not all the time just the top teams, Derby, Brentford, Leeds, Birmingham. I’m just don’t want us to throw this away.  Best chance to go up since GJ... 

[Kibs]

A problem we have, IMO, is that the vast majority of teams go with 3 centre midfielders in this division, or a slight variant of, and then we get outnumbered. It was evident against Derby despite us winning.

The issue now is that with Diedhiou and Wells, LJ will be very reluctant to play anything other than a front 2, though yesterday would have been the perfect opportunity not to do that. 

 

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I disagree with this. I don’t think any of the players signed in midfield are in the ‘tiki taki, sideways, backwards’ style. I think they’re all ‘runners’ with very little technical ability or composure. 
Nagy is a runner. HNM runs about but lacks composure, Smith is a runner. Cod is a runner. Weimann is a runner. Brownhill was a runner. 
 

We don’t have a single midfielder who I’d 100% say is ‘happy’ on the ball, edge of his own box, facing his own goal. None who have the technique and composure to receive a pass under pressure and be able to retain possession and pop a simple ball back off again. 
 

We did have one. Pack. But we definitely don’t have one now. 
The central midfield is MOST DEFINITELY NOT built in the managers own playing style. Absolutely no way. 

I really don't share your opinion of Pack's ability on the ball. He can't take it in tight spaces like Korey or Brownhill could, or on a good day Nagy can or Massengo too.

He had physical strength that could help him shield the ball but usually did that very deep anyway when dropping into safe areas of the pitch.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Kibs said:

A problem we have, IMO, is that the vast majority of teams go with 3 centre midfielders in this division, or a slight variant of, and when we get outnumbered. It was evident against Derby despite us winning.

The issue now is that with Diedhiou and Wells, LJ will be very reluctant to play anything other than a front 2, though yesterday would have been the perfect opportunity not to do that. 

 

 

Wells suits 4231. It's what got the best out of him for Huddersfield and QPR.

LJs obsession with 442 is bizarre. Fam and Wells did link up well against Derby but still not sure that is the way forward.

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I really don't share your opinion of Pack's ability on the ball. He can't take it in tight spaces like Korey or Brownhill could, or on a good day Nagy can or Massengo too.

He had physical strength that could help him shield the ball but usually did that very deep anyway when dropping into safe areas of the pitch.

Pack couldn’t receive a ball in tight spaces like Korey or Brownhill?? Ha ha. 
Not wishing to be rude but oh my days!!! 

[Kibs]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Pack couldn’t receive a ball in tight spaces like Korey or Brownhill?? Ha ha. 
Not wishing to be rude but oh my days!!! 

I don't think any of them could! including Pack!

Pack's favourite move was to take the ball off the centre half's toe when the opposition had backed off and play a simple pass that the Centre half could have played himself. Did my head in. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Pack couldn’t receive a ball in tight spaces like Korey or Brownhill?? Ha ha. 
Not wishing to be rude but oh my days!!! 

Yet Brownhill has moved on to the prem. Pretty sure Pack would have moved on to bigger things if he was that good on the ball, considering he is so big and strong. 

You say it yourself. Pack faces his own goal. He can use his body to shield it. He didn't like taking the ball 10 or so yards further forward in tight spaces.

 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I don't think any of them could! including Pack!

Pack's favourite move was to take the ball off the centre half's toe when the opposition had backed off and play a simple pass that the Centre half could have played himself. Did my head in. 

I think many fans completely underestimated Pack, or to a large extent didn’t understand his role. 
Have a look at us now when we have the ball. How many passing options do our players have? Often none. Which results in a long ball forward. 
Pack had his deficiencies, but one of his biggest strengths was always being available for a pass, and happy to receive a pass with an opponent in close proximity, and to not panic when receiving the ball in such areas. 
What we have now is a far far cry from that. We have no passing options, no one willing to receive the ball in tight spaces and no one capable of the slightest bit of composure when receiving it with an opponent close. Panic panic panic, long ball, lump it, kick it out. 
I think your view of Pack is highly flawed. 

[Bodiesaffer]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think many fans completely underestimated Pack, or to a large extent didn’t understand his role. 
Have a look at us now when we have the ball. How many passing options do our players have? Often none. Which results in a long ball forward. 
Pack had his deficiencies, but one of his biggest strengths was always being available for a pass, and happy to receive a pass with an opponent in close proximity, and to not panic when receiving the ball in such areas. 
What we have now is a far far cry from that. We have no passing options, no one willing to receive the ball in tight spaces and no one capable of the slightest bit of composure when receiving it with an opponent close. Panic panic panic, long ball, lump it, kick it out. 
I think your view of Pack is highly flawed. 

I think we have this now in the chap on loan from Hull

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I don't think any of them could! including Pack!

Pack's favourite move was to take the ball off the centre half's toe when the opposition had backed off and play a simple pass that the Centre half could have played himself. Did my head in. 

Not saying Brownhill or Korey are top top quality at it but they can do it better than Pack. They have a better touch, much sharper in their movements with the ball and willing to face goal, face a player that risks losing the ball, but also helps drive us on. Not drop back every time into safe zones.

[Alessandro]

I think we massively miss two things especially right now -
 

1) As @Harry says - technical midfielders that are genuinely happy, and good on the ball in tight spaces.

2) Enough players that can comfortably travel, with the ball, at pace and purpose up the field, especially under pressure. 

[Harry]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Not saying Brownhill or Korey are top top quality at it but they can do it better than Pack. They have a better touch, much sharper in their movements with the ball and willing to face goal, face a player that risks losing the ball, but also helps drive us on. Not drop back every time into safe zones.

Honestly I’ve never heard such rubbish. Korey has a better touch than Pack. Ha ha. My word! 

2 minutes ago, Bodiesaffer said:

I think we have this now in the chap on loan from Hull

Hopefully so 

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

I think we massively miss two things -
 

1) As @Harry says - technical midfielders that are genuinely happy, and good on the ball in tight spaces.

2) Enough players that can comfortably travel, with the ball, at pace and purpose up the field, especially under pressure. 

Everyone is ignoring Nagy ability on the ball then? Especially  as a holding midfielder 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Honestly I’ve never heard such rubbish. Korey has a better touch than Pack. Ha ha. My word! 

Hopefully so 

Think you over estimate what pack is good at and don’t see his flaws very well.