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Red Army 75

Rail Seating

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Shrewsbury have never had to comply with the all seater policy, hence why they could install a standing area. The seats are NEVER locked down, they are free to tip like an ordinary seat, but in Germany for instance they can be locked UP out of the way to stop them being stood on and broken.

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As far as I understand it, rail seating is a 'workaround' to allow people to stand during games within the law to some extent. Even though the club are required to issue reminders/warnings for persistent standing (not that they will). It's a bit of a compromise within the law.

I think that's the reason why it doesn't (or can't) increase capacity at this stage. It isn't technically standing, you are still allocated a seat. It is just providing facilities if it just so happens that people end up standing in these areas and the club will happen to turn a blind eye to it. I think that's correct at least.

Edited by nebristolred

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1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

I wasn’t that bad was I? 😝

I was going to add that you would probably remember who I am referring to. I always remember that it was my daughter that came closest to actually strangling the guy. :) 

 

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2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I was going to add that you would probably remember who I am referring to. I always remember that it was my daughter that came closest to actually strangling the guy. :) 

 

And he usually started the slating when the game was only about 30 seconds old! 🙄

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2 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

And he usually started the slating when the game was only about 30 seconds old! 🙄

The worst was when he was moaning when we were 3-1 up against Rotherham about 30 seconds from promotion! 

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1 hour ago, Barkhamred said:

Shrewsbury have never had to comply with the all seater policy, hence why they could install a standing area. The seats are NEVER locked down, they are free to tip like an ordinary seat, but in Germany for instance they can be locked UP out of the way to stop them being stood on and broken.

In fact, because Shrewsbury aren't covered by the all-seater policy, they are allowed to have the metal style of rail seat and leave those seats locked up at all times to maximise space for the standing fans.

On the row immediately in front of their standing section (which is 6 or so rows at the back of a stand) they use a style of rail seat with a normal tip-up seat, as that row is then the first row of the seated area, but the fans standing on the row behind it still need the rail for their safety. See pics below:

Front row looking left.JPG

Front 3 rows.JPG

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18 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Basically it's S82 area plus a bit more.

"The club recognises that a number of supporters wish to stand at games and the dedicated rail/barrier area proposed in blocks S25, S26 and S27 aims to enhance the matchday experience, while ensuring fans’ safety is paramount at all times."

Nope, not a bit more. exactly the same as it is now.

they should of planned for this right from the start, using the singing section as something to be proud of, bang in the middle behind the goal. instead of being shoved in the corner, being seen as more of an inconvenience

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4 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

Nope, not a bit more. exactly the same as it is now.

they should of planned for this right from the start, using the singing section as something to be proud of, bang in the middle behind the goal. instead of being shoved in the corner, being seen as more of an inconvenience

Surely it's a small increase because of the 10% reduction to capacity in unreserved areas- a number that will now be available as the Safe Standing/Rail Seating will be reserved, or designated as such?

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5 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

Nope, not a bit more. exactly the same as it is now.

they should of planned for this right from the start, using the singing section as something to be proud of, bang in the middle behind the goal. instead of being shoved in the corner, being seen as more of an inconvenience

How would that work ?

People sitting to the sides wouldn't be able to see parts of the pitch..

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surely it's a small increase because of the 10% reduction to capacity in unreserved areas- a number that will now be available as the Safe Standing/Rail Seating will be reserved, or designated as such?

OK yes so how many people that are allowed in those blocks will increase. but as far as the area being extended further across the South Stand, this won't happen or at least not for now. which is what i was hoping for.

 

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

How would that work ?

People sitting to the sides wouldn't be able to see parts of the pitch..

I mean right from the start, from the very beginning. They should have incorporated rails into the entire South Stand from the very beginning and said right, if you want to stand go here.

If Wolves can have a South Bank, and Spurs can have an end nearly as big as Ashton Gate itself, I honestly feel there are enough people wanting to stand behind the goal given the opportunity.

I've been in the "singing section" since the Wedlock stand, then the Williams, then both sides of the Atyeo, then back into the corner where we are now. But i wouldnt consider myself part of "Section 82". its caused too much division within the fanbase.

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3 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

I mean right from the start, from the very beginning. They should have incorporated rails into the entire South Stand from the very beginning and said right, if you want to stand go here.

If Wolves can have a South Bank, and Spurs can have an end nearly as big as Ashton Gate itself, I honestly feel there are enough people wanting to stand behind the goal given the opportunity.

I've been in the "singing section" since the Wedlock stand, then the Williams, then both sides of the Atyeo, then back into the corner where we are now. But i wouldnt consider myself part of "Section 82". its caused too much division within the fanbase.

If they did that I think they'd have a half empty stand.

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2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

If they did that I think they'd have a half empty stand.

I guess we'll never know. We have half empty stands anyway sometimes.

Wolves and Spurs have packed out ends wanting to stand. I'm certain we could have filled a stand 1/3 of the size. Massively missed out opportunity, IMHO

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5 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

OK yes so how many people that are allowed in those blocks will increase. but as far as the area being extended further across the South Stand, this won't happen or at least not for now. which is what i was hoping for.

 

I mean right from the start, from the very beginning. They should have incorporated rails into the entire South Stand from the very beginning and said right, if you want to stand go here.

If Wolves can have a South Bank, and Spurs can have an end nearly as big as Ashton Gate itself, I honestly feel there are enough people wanting to stand behind the goal given the opportunity.

I've been in the "singing section" since the Wedlock stand, then the Williams, then both sides of the Atyeo, then back into the corner where we are now. But i wouldnt consider myself part of "Section 82". its caused too much division within the fanbase.

It was a timing issue. When the South Stand was built, seats with rails were not permitted. By last spring/summer, when Spurs and Wolves did their installations, they were.

AGL tried hard - with my help - to get consent to put rail seats into the South Stand from day one (and that would have been across the full width at the back), but the government at that time simply would not allow it.

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35 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

In fact, because Shrewsbury aren't covered by the all-seater policy, they are allowed to have the metal style of rail seat and leave those seats locked up at all times to maximise space for the standing fans.

On the row immediately in front of their standing section (which is 6 or so rows at the back of a stand) they use a style of rail seat with a normal tip-up seat, as that row is then the first row of the seated area, but the fans standing on the row behind it still need the rail for their safety. See pics below:

Front row looking left.JPG

Front 3 rows.JPG

In the second picture doesn't the independent rail at the front encroach into the space needed for standing / passing by to ones seat (sorry space!)? It can be a tight fit at the moment if someone with a larger frame wishes to pass by.

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9 minutes ago, Barkhamred said:

In the second picture doesn't the independent rail at the front encroach into the space needed for standing / passing by to ones seat (sorry space!)? It can be a tight fit at the moment if someone with a larger frame wishes to pass by.

In their situation that's not really an issue, as the metal seat on the row behind takes up no more space than the rail itself. Clearly if they had the bulkier tip-up seats and a rail taking up that amount of space on every row it would indeed be a very tight squeeze.

Hopefully the seat/rail configuration at AG will increase the space along each row rather than reduce it.

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46 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

Nope, not a bit more. exactly the same as it is now.

they should of planned for this right from the start, using the singing section as something to be proud of, bang in the middle behind the goal. instead of being shoved in the corner, being seen as more of an inconvenience

Wouldn't a load of people standing right behind the goal spoil the view of everyone else who either isn't in a standing seat or would rather just sit?

At least where S82 are accommodated now they can stand without any inconvenience.

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19 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

It was a timing issue. When the South Stand was built, seats with rails were not permitted. By last spring/summer, when Spurs and Wolves did their installations, they were.

AGL tried hard - with my help - to get consent to put rail seats into the South Stand from day one (and that would have been across the full width at the back), but the government at that time simply would not allow it.

Fair enough then, something i did not realise, good bit of insight. If it's out of our hands, then that's the way it is.

Still, it does not change the fact from a singing section point of view, that its always been viewed as a hindrance, rather than a focal point. Rails or no rails.

I go back to the South Bank at Wolves as its the only example, but still a great one. They seemed to have installed it in the entire stand, and i just wish it was something we had prioritised for an inevitable change which has obviously now happened.

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Wouldn't a load of people standing right behind the goal spoil the view of everyone else who either isn't in a standing seat or would rather just sit?

At least where S82 are accommodated now they can stand without any inconvenience.

A whole end standing, thats my vision. Would of looked very impressive, and the potential was there. Given the opportunity, the demand is there as well i feel. but its too late now, unfortunately.

Sir Jack Hayward Stand With Standing Safety Barriers

Looking Towards The Stand Cullis Stand

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4 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

A whole end standing, thats my vision. Would of looked very impressive, and the potential was there. Given the opportunity, the demand is there as well i feel. but its too late now, unfortunately.

Sir Jack Hayward Stand With Standing Safety Barriers

Looking Towards The Stand Cullis Stand

That's my ideal situation too. Ideally, away fans shoved in the corner nearest that end with home fans all stood behind one goal. I wish they'd done this with the Atyeo and put away fans either in Dolman A/B or that corner of the Lansdown. Logistically it's too challenging now I think.

A reasonable compromise could be something like this

 

Image

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11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's my ideal situation too. Ideally, away fans shoved in the corner nearest that end with home fans all stood behind one goal. I wish they'd done this with the Atyeo and put away fans either in Dolman A/B or that corner of the Lansdown. Logistically it's too challenging now I think.

A reasonable compromise could be something like this

 

Image

Agreed!

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11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's my ideal situation too. Ideally, away fans shoved in the corner nearest that end with home fans all stood behind one goal. I wish they'd done this with the Atyeo and put away fans either in Dolman A/B or that corner of the Lansdown. Logistically it's too challenging now I think.

A reasonable compromise could be something like this

 

Image

I imagine this is a pilot to see how things go with a small section of fans. 

No point doing it for the whole end if not we'll received, doesn't work etc.

Also we have a lot of fans who won't stand no matter what and who won't be moved, so it's a bit of a cultural battle as well. 

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19 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sounds like a real positive, however when I was a nipper, you would negotiate your place on the terrace so that you were able to see, usually by standing in front of a tall person, rather than behind. 

I wonder how this will work on a fixed seat basis?

Why do tall people always seem to go to the front at concerts and sports events ? 
 Tall gits. 
 

:bounce:

let me see , let me see .

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41 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

 

Still, it does not change the fact from a singing section point of view, that its always been viewed as a hindrance, rather than a focal point. Rails or no rails.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. If the singing section was viewed as a hindrance, it wouldn't be there. When I was SLO, not just myself but everyone at the club bent over backwards to ensure that the hard core of vocal support from the East End had somewhere to congregate during the stadium redevelopment, because there  was (and clearly still is) an understanding that the vocal support they offer is a key part of making the stadium a noisier place. There is also recognition that some fans want to stand, and therefore we had to try and find a way of letting them do that, even though ground regulations and government rules didn't allow it. It's been a sometimes messy compromise over the years, and I'm glad to see that the situation is now becoming more clear cut. But you shouldn't confuse the necessity of complying with complicated safety regulations with a lack of desire from the club to provide standing areas for those that want them. Hats off too to @Blagdon red who has been a tireless advocate for safe standing - as have certain key figure at Ashton Gate.

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10 minutes ago, Dave L said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. If the singing section was viewed as a hindrance, it wouldn't be there. When I was SLO, not just myself but everyone at the club bent over backwards to ensure that the hard core of vocal support from the East End had somewhere to congregate during the stadium redevelopment, because there  was (and clearly still is) an understanding that the vocal support they offer is a key part of making the stadium a noisier place. There is also recognition that some fans want to stand, and therefore we had to try and find a way of letting them do that, even though ground regulations and government rules didn't allow it. It's been a sometimes messy compromise over the years, and I'm glad to see that the situation is now becoming more clear cut. But you shouldn't confuse the necessity of complying with complicated safety regulations with a lack of desire from the club to provide standing areas for those that want them. Hats off too to @Blagdon red who has been a tireless advocate for safe standing - as have certain key figure at Ashton Gate.

Well said Dave. 

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1 hour ago, matalan12 said:

Nope, not a bit more. exactly the same as it is now.

they should of planned for this right from the start, using the singing section as something to be proud of, bang in the middle behind the goal. instead of being shoved in the corner, being seen as more of an inconvenience

Fair enough. I've never been in S82 so I'm not surprised I got the sections wrong. 

Ideally I think you'd extend standing along the back of the south stand, maybe the back 10 or 15 rows. You'd end up with something similar to what you get at away grounds where people who stand go to the back and those who sit gravitate to the front.

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3 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I imagine this is a pilot to see how things go with a small section of fans. 

No point doing it for the whole end if not we'll received, doesn't work etc.

Also we have a lot of fans who won't stand no matter what and who won't be moved, so it's a bit of a cultural battle as well. 

Yep corner is a good start. If it’s popular and works well it can be expanded further.

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What about the health and safety of the away supporters, does the club consider them?

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Could we have some kind of agreement between the fans in that section. That we will treat it as unreserved as normal. We need to somehow get the message out to the fans in this section. Otherwise there is going to be alot of problems created by the club. I've been in an area with some friends since it opened and get on well with the other people around me. I really dont understand why by putting a rail in front of our seats makes the section need to be reserved seating?

Edited by T R
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13 hours ago, nebristolred said:

As far as I understand it, rail seating is a 'workaround' to allow people to stand during games within the law to some extent. Even though the club are required to issue reminders/warnings for persistent standing (not that they will). It's a bit of a compromise within the law.

I think that's the reason why it doesn't (or can't) increase capacity at this stage. It isn't technically standing, you are still allocated a seat. It is just providing facilities if it just so happens that people end up standing in these areas and the club will happen to turn a blind eye to it. I think that's correct at least.

 

It's all silly on a policy level isn't it? The government have this ideological approach of not wanting to go back on what was a poorly implemented idea in the first place, and so clubs have to come up with workarounds that allow us to kind of get away with it, but really the government should just change the law. 

It's the same with drug policy and the home office.  "We know our drug policies are working and nothing needs to change." In the background though tons is changing because their approach is stupid and more dangerous. 

Credit to those that keep fighting for change.

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7 hours ago, T R said:

Could we have some kind of agreement between the fans in that section. That we will treat it as unreserved as normal. We need to somehow get the message out to the fans in this section. Otherwise there is going to be alot of problems created by the club. I've been in an area with some friends since it opened and get on well with the other people around me. I really dont understand why by putting a rail in front of our seats makes the section need to be reserved seating?

We could do it by ummmm, talking to each other at the ground? Radical I know. :)

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I do not understand how in 2020 we do not have some degree of "safe standing" aka what every other country in the world has. 

I was in Mainz not long ago and was sat in the main tribune block on the steps until the game started, barriers everywhere and it was easy and I stood the entire 90 minutes from the start. They have a similiar sized stadium to us (think it may actually be mid 30k) and one entire stand is "safe standing".

That being said, no one is going to want to go to championship games with/without safe standing if the ticket prices are still in the 30-40 quid region. Should be capped as a reflection of that of the prem, but that's another topic for another day.

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19 hours ago, Dave L said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. If the singing section was viewed as a hindrance, it wouldn't be there. When I was SLO, not just myself but everyone at the club bent over backwards to ensure that the hard core of vocal support from the East End had somewhere to congregate during the stadium redevelopment, because there  was (and clearly still is) an understanding that the vocal support they offer is a key part of making the stadium a noisier place. There is also recognition that some fans want to stand, and therefore we had to try and find a way of letting them do that, even though ground regulations and government rules didn't allow it. It's been a sometimes messy compromise over the years, and I'm glad to see that the situation is now becoming more clear cut. But you shouldn't confuse the necessity of complying with complicated safety regulations with a lack of desire from the club to provide standing areas for those that want them. Hats off too to @Blagdon red who has been a tireless advocate for safe standing - as have certain key figure at Ashton Gate.

If government rules didn't allow it, how did it happen? I'll tell you how. because like minded fans were going to stand if they wanted to, regardless.

If its seen as such a key part of making noise and creating atmosphere, why were we moved from one side of the Atyeo to the other, only to be moved to the South Stand as a last resort. probably as a request from police and authorities, more as a safety measure than a club desire. i don't think i've ever known ashton gate to be quieter, less atmospheric. you regularly read comments on here about how S82 cannot be heard from certain areas.

The South Stand was built from scratch and as such, huge potential to create an end was there that visiting clubs could be envious of.

I would be honestly surprised if any of those 14 likes are from people that have been in that section all these years. or maybe i'm just weird for feeling this way if i am, fair enough.

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37 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

If government rules didn't allow it, how did it happen? I'll tell you how. because like minded fans were going to stand if they wanted to, regardless.

If its seen as such a key part of making noise and creating atmosphere, why were we moved from one side of the Atyeo to the other, only to be moved to the South Stand as a last resort. probably as a request from police and authorities, more as a safety measure than a club desire. i don't think i've ever known ashton gate to be quieter, less atmospheric. you regularly read comments on here about how S82 cannot be heard from certain areas.

The South Stand was built from scratch and as such, huge potential to create an end was there that visiting clubs could be envious of.

I would be honestly surprised if any of those 14 likes are from people that have been in that section all these years. or maybe i'm just weird for feeling this way if i am, fair enough.

Going to defend, perhaps even praise the club here.

Who was the first club to raise head above parapet and look to try to get Safe Standing? Us!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/nov/30/bristol-city-safe-standing-british-football-grounds

We in fact had hopes for 3,152 safe standing spaces if this article broadly accurate, was reading this last night and remembering.

Pre redevelopment, we actually had a small showcase in the Atyeo!

rail-seats-bristol-city-618x330.jpg

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/renewed-commitment-safe-standing-welcomed/

The above article in addition.

There it is being safety checked- different article again I think.

article-2560296-1B83C2D600000578-69_634x

We literally had nowhere to go however, with the legislation at the time as it turned  out. However I believe the intent was there and 3,152, over 10% of overall capacity isn't bad- nearly three times or between 2.5 and 3 times the current singing section?

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/bristol-city-propose-rail-seats-at-ashton-gate

If the below article is broadly correct, legislation basically hemmed us in- it was out of our hands it seems!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-29738556

One more article from the time, reinforcing it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26141427

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Going to defend, perhaps even praise the club here.

Who was the first club to raise head above parapet and look to try to get Safe Standing? Us!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/nov/30/bristol-city-safe-standing-british-football-grounds

We in fact had hopes for 3,152 safe standing spaces if this article broadly accurate, was reading this last night and remembering.

Pre redevelopment, we actually had a small showcase in the Atyeo!

rail-seats-bristol-city-618x330.jpg

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/renewed-commitment-safe-standing-welcomed/

The above article in addition.

There it is being safety checked.

article-2560296-1B83C2D600000578-69_634x

We literally had nowhere to go however, with the legislation at the time as it turned  out. However I believe the intent was there and 3,152, over 10% of overall capacity isn't bad- nearly three times or between 2.5 and 3 times the current singing section?

I’m really proud of the club for being brave enough to forge ahead.

I just wish they’d realise that specific seating isn’t necessary. Maybe they do and it’s just lip service to get this over the line?

Rather like the Manchester games?

Edited by 054123

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16 hours ago, 22A said:

Rail seats? 

image.jpeg.277750d1315edaa8d90f15549e72af9c.jpeg

Image result for sitting on rail lines

The top picture is the singing section I presume.

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9 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I’m really proud of the club for being brave enough to forge ahead.

I just wish they’d realise that specific seating isn’t necessary. Maybe they do it’s just lip service to get this over the line?

Rather like the Manchester games?

Agreed.

Only exceptions would have to be when spot checks by Licensing Authority, but specific seating isn't necessary, why would it be- a daft rule aside.

Also a chance that it would evolve and start out with smallish numbers and reserved seating and then maybe hit the 3,000 or so, or equivalent % in whatever stadia and unreserved over time.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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One more.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-play-prominent-part-1717364

 We came up in the safe standing debate nearly two years ago now:

Quote

Luke Hall, MP for Thornbury and Yate, used the Robins and Bristol Bears' usage of Ashton Gate to point out that football clubs currently adhere to the advice and guidance of local experts.

The Robins did initially install the first block of safe standing rail seating in English football in 2014 and Hall said giving clubs the adaptability to do this would allow them to future-proof their stadiums.

Alas- seems as I thought we were hemmed in during 2013/14 and 2014/15- and football has been subsequently until the first pilot schemes were allowed ie Shrewsbury, and latterly Tottenham and Wolves, ready for the legislation to change!

I also suspect 'advice' means instructions/orders! In this context anyway.

Quote

He said: "Ashton Gate is the home of Bristol City Football Club and Bristol Rugby—the matches are held in the same ground. Yet the ground regulations on standing, for each sport, are in stark contrast to each other.

"Bristol City previously applied to the local safety advisory group to consider the possibility of introducing safe standing. Rail seating was considered at the start of the redevelopment of Ashton Gate in the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons, when the club was in League One.

"The possibility of progress on that was part of the reason why Bristol Rugby started to play at Ashton Gate. However, Avon and Somerset police have explained that it never took off following advice from the local safety advisory group.

 

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Lastly, the plans from the time ie 2013/2014 season.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Downloads/Safe-standing/Rail-Seats-Safe-Standing-Bristol-City-Wedlock-Stand.pdf

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Downloads/Safe-standing/Rail-Seats-Safe-Standing-Dolman-Stand-Bristol-City.pdf

Interestingly, in those blueprints it appears to be in the lower half of the stand or chunks of it. The latter of course in the Dolman might have enabled more interaction between home and away if it was right across the lower sections, with a further positive knock-on effect for atmosphere.

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Recieved this letter today . Condensed version you have to choose an actual seat from next season.  Apologies if this has already been covered. 

20200221_112105.thumb.jpg.eceb2ccb94b8550e4b5670c2f4aeb373.jpg

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Get a designated seat for next season but still stand where you want in the section I think everyone is going to follow this philosophy 👍.

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1 hour ago, Red94 said:

Get a designated seat for next season but still stand where you want in the section I think everyone is going to follow this philosophy 👍.

Works for a period until time goes on, potd or newer fans come along, don't know the 'system' and then genuinely want the seat/standing spot they paid for.

Edited by nebristolred

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2 hours ago, nebristolred said:

Works for a period until time goes on, potd or newer fans come along, don't know the 'system' and then genuinely want the seat/standing spot they paid for.

Then just let them know how it works I’m pretty sure you can’t get potd in those sections anyway? 

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Related to this discussion on rail seating / barriers, there's an interesting line in the planning application for Everton's new stadium, which has just gone online. Talking about the proposed safe standing areas it says:

"The 750mm row depths will allow for two 350mm deep rows"

That's a requirement for increasing capacity, so they are making provision for doing just that.

As the image below shows, what they are allowing for is a rail seat taking up 50mm and the two 350mm steps required by the safety regulations. This layout gives them scope for a 50% capacity increase in those areas.

Hopefully City will have this sort of futureproofing in their plans for the Section 82 area! The rows there are all deeper than Everton's, so would permit a higher percentage increase.

Two steps on 750mm row cropped.jpg

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5 hours ago, Red94 said:

Get a designated seat for next season but still stand where you want in the section I think everyone is going to follow this philosophy 👍.

Is the club deffenalty going to let this happen as don't want to find myself moved away from my friends, one of the main reasons I love section 82 is the freedom to move around , if rail seating stops this from happening then I would definitely not want rail seating, as the current unreserved way is far better, the club really need to make clear how they are going to be managing the area next season,

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14 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Is the club deffenalty going to let this happen as don't want to find myself moved away from my friends, one of the main reasons I love section 82 is the freedom to move around , if rail seating stops this from happening then I would definitely not want rail seating, as the current unreserved way is far better, the club really need to make clear how they are going to be managing the area next season,

Club has to 'play the game' though, so to speak.

We'll see how it goes. It's good news but lest we forget, still it said on the site 'subject to SAG approval.' Now I suspect that's a formality but club will surely need to demonstrate that they're trying to stick to it.

Here we go, the key line that has me putting champagne on ice a little:

Quote

To comply with current safety regulations, supporters will need a reserved seat to ensure that the correct number of supporters are in the designated rail/barrier seating blocks. This is subject to approval from the Safety Advisory Group (SAG).

I think the overcrowding issue can be avoided regardless of reserved seats basically but this seems to be a condition of or an * against?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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^^ that's really disappointing as it will kill the atmosphere as it will break everyone up if the SAG forces the club to make everyone go to there allocated seat, guess am going to have to try to get seats with my mates when we renew, honestly when I saw that we where getting rail seating I was happy but now I just don't want it as what we have at the moment is better 

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17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Club has to 'play the game' though, so to speak.

We'll see how it goes. It's good news but lest we forget, still it said on the site 'subject to SAG approval.' Now I suspect that's a formality but club will surely need to demonstrate that they're trying to stick to it.

Here we go, the key line that has me putting champagne on ice a little:

I think the overcrowding issue can be avoided regardless of reserved seats basically but this seems to be a condition of or an * against?

The best way to avoid overcrowding is to provide lots of space.

I know that at places like Celtic and Shrewsbury the standing fans have a lot more space along the rows than they used to have with the normal seats, so hopefully the space along the rows will go up at AG too.

That in turn should enable a more relaxed approach to where people stand, as the main worry of the SAG / stadium stewards is fans not finding a space and standing in the aisles.

The worst case scenario would be the space being reduced, as then it will be less easy to move along rows to find an empty spot. 

If that happens, heaven forbid, I can certainly see the stewards being very strict about everyone standing in front of their allocated seat.

So space is the key! And lots of it!!

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1 hour ago, Blagdon red said:

The best way to avoid overcrowding is to provide lots of space.

I know that at places like Celtic and Shrewsbury the standing fans have a lot more space along the rows than they used to have with the normal seats, so hopefully the space along the rows will go up at AG too.

That in turn should enable a more relaxed approach to where people stand, as the main worry of the SAG / stadium stewards is fans not finding a space and standing in the aisles.

The worst case scenario would be the space being reduced, as then it will be less easy to move along rows to find an empty spot. 

If that happens, heaven forbid, I can certainly see the stewards being very strict about everyone standing in front of their allocated seat.

So space is the key! And lots of it!!

How can the space be changed? 

Steps etc. are in place, how can it be affected? 

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