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Benik (Merged)


Hampshire reds

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, exactly that according to Kid.

I don’t believe him.  What was the exact question that he was answering?

Indeed.  Would you loan a £12m asset (albeit £8m In Stoke’s books at the point of loan to us), and City just cover some of all of the wages?

I accept in some cases you might, but I think highly unlikely in this case.

MacAnthony (Peterboro) and Holt (Accrington) regularly moan about loan fees from Champ / Prem clubs.

I honestly can't remember exactly.

He answered a hell of a lot of questions, in particular as to how/who decides what is wanted, how they are identified, the fact that we are very often running with four possibilities at the same time for one signing.

He mentioned that some clubs pay all of a loan players wages, some pay only a part. It's dependent on the reason the loan has been arranged, i.e. for whose benefit. It was at that point that he said that we do not pay a fee to loan players.

 

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17 minutes ago, redsince1994 said:

I know very little about this sort of thing, how does the muscle build up compensate for the lack of ACL? I'm not 100% sure on what movement the ACL is involved in.

The ACL is there to stabilise the knee when you over exert the muscles. The best way it was described to me was - think of it like a piece of elastic that hold the joint together when the muscles can't. You don't actually need the ACL if you don't over exert the muscles around the knee - therefore if you keep the muscles built up enough they should always be strong enough to handle the strain. 

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11 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

The ACL is there to stabilise the knee when you over exert the muscles. The best way it was described to me was - think of it like a piece of elastic that hold the joint together when the muscles can't. You don't actually need the ACL if you don't over exert the muscles around the knee - therefore if you keep the muscles built up enough they should always be strong enough to handle the strain. 

Ah I understand now. I'm guessing if you were to over exert one of the muscles around the knee the results would be pretty severe, making the ACL removal a calculated risk?

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14 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

The ACL is there to stabilise the knee when you over exert the muscles. The best way it was described to me was - think of it like a piece of elastic that hold the joint together when the muscles can't. You don't actually need the ACL if you don't over exert the muscles around the knee - therefore if you keep the muscles built up enough they should always be strong enough to handle the strain. 

 

2 minutes ago, redsince1994 said:

Ah I understand now. I'm guessing if you were to over exert one of the muscles around the knee the results would be pretty severe, making the ACL removal a calculated risk?

Exactly. The ligament allows for additional flexibility. 
The situation someone mentioned earlier regarding some rugby players playing without an ACL is one where the player would often be expected to run in quite straight lines, and rarely would a rugby player be at a full pace sprint and need to twist quickly to change direction. 
Similarly with our poster Richard above - without making too many assumptions, my guess would be that high-twitch movement is still not probable, and at the level you possibly play, you’d not necessarily be competing at a pace and speed as a pro would. 

The necessity for Afobe to twist, turn, change direction etc at high speed, plant a foot and spin the other way to create space etc, is what would make it much more difficult for a pro-footballer to play without an ACL - range of movement at high speed would be very very limited. 

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5 minutes ago, redsince1994 said:

Ah I understand now. I'm guessing if you were to over exert one of the muscles around the knee the results would be pretty severe, making the ACL removal a calculated risk?

Well in my case it's not actually removed just snapped in two from the original injury - at the time I did it I couldn't get/afford the operation to repair it. So I guess I technically still have it its just completely useless. 

I have at various points in my life been less in shape and over exerted the knee and it's incredibly painful, you can feel bones grind ?. It then swells up ridiculously and takes a month or so to recover. 

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2 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Well in my case it's not actually removed just snapped in two from the original injury - at the time I did it I couldn't get/afford the operation to repair it. So I guess I technically still have it its just completely useless. 

I have at various points in my life been less in shape and over exerted the knee and it's incredibly painful, you can feel bones grind ?. It then swells up ridiculously and takes a month or so to recover. 

That sounds delightful! I have experienced that sensation once when having a broken clavicle reset. No wish to repeat it any time soon!

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Exactly. The ligament allows for additional flexibility. 
The situation someone mentioned earlier regarding some rugby players playing without an ACL is one where the player would often be expected to run in quite straight lines, and rarely would a rugby player be at a full pace sprint and need to twist quickly to change direction. 
Similarly with our poster Richard above - without making too many assumptions, my guess would be that high-twitch movement is still not probable, and at the level you possibly play, you’d not necessarily be competing at a pace and speed as a pro would. 

The necessity for Afobe to twist, turn, change direction etc at high speed, plant a foot and spin the other way to create space etc, is what would make it much more difficult for a pro-footballer to play without an ACL - range of movement at high speed would be very very limited. 

Yeah I'm not at pro level in any respect! ? Fitness, skill, pace, power. I would think if you were at that level you would bd find dojng all those actions but twisting, pivoting, spinning etc would be slower as you need to build up muscles that are often not that delveoped and that makes everything a bit tighter and less flexible. 

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3 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Well in my case it's not actually removed just snapped in two from the original injury - at the time I did it I couldn't get/afford the operation to repair it. So I guess I technically still have it its just completely useless. 

I have at various points in my life been less in shape and over exerted the knee and it's incredibly painful, you can feel bones grind ?. It then swells up ridiculously and takes a month or so to recover. 

It is not unusual to damage cartilage when you rupture you’re ACL.  I has 2/3rds of mine taken out when I had my ACL rupture repaired (using Patella Tendon).  It’s why I get fluid on it if I do anything strenuous.  My my knee itself is stable.

I can only assume from Benik’s rehab (and timing) that he’s kept his cartilage in tact....hopefully a positive that he can come back fully.

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It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

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1 hour ago, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

I do enjoy it when we stumble across an expert! Cheers. 
 

(Edit. This sounds sarcastic. It isn’t!)

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5 hours ago, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

Great post, it sounds like it would of been a tricky operation for any one with such an injury. It’s great to see a post that offers true  and detailed information. 

Lets up though he does get chance to play near the end of this season. Or if not wouldn’t it be great to see him jog around the ground (maybe before a play off game ) in front of over 30,000.00 City fans. The reception he will receive would not want to be missed by any of us. 

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6 hours ago, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

Humans are so clever! It astounds me some of the things they do in the medical profession. Stents are another thing that blow my mind.

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6 hours ago, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

I was about to post exactly the same thing... honest 

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20 hours ago, Redtucks said:

 last Saturday for instance, but have no idea of illnesses, mental states, family problems or a multitude of other problems that players may be suffering.

 

Three teams will prevail in the end though, and claim promotion, and we will have no idea whether they too had "illness, mental states, family problems" or a "multitude of other problems" to deal with, like we may or may not be dealing with.

The likelihood is that Bristol City are not alone in having things to deal with with their playing staff, on and off the pitch. This is why you have a manager (or, multiple staff), to "manage" problems.

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7 hours ago, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

I had the first option together with tidying my damaged cartilage.  I was told 9/12 months, if I was a pro 6/9 months.  I was ahead of schedule until fluid problems occurred.  I lost little to no muscle (obviously not as defined as Benik’s!!) until fluid stopped me working on them.

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54 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Three teams will prevail in the end though, and claim promotion, and we will have no idea whether they too had "illness, mental states, family problems" or a "multitude of other problems" to deal with, like we may or may not be dealing with.

The likelihood is that Bristol City are not alone in having things to deal with with their playing staff, on and off the pitch. This is why you have a manager (or, multiple staff), to "manage" problems.

Exactly!!!

It just confirms my point that the people making comments such as, "he doesn't know what he's doing!", "why has he left xxxxx out?" and "he's clueless!" are very often the ones that are clueless.

 

 

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19 hours ago, shelts said:

Nope ? 

You could expand a little and tell @Agard Days Night why you don’t think Kasey Palmer can thread balls through to a forward partnership of Afobe and Wells? He was certainly doing a good enough job in this regard at the start of the season when we had Afobe and Weimann up there - and his ball through for Rowe to score away at Brum was just sublime, very high class ... your one word dismissal of him can surely be expanded?

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1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

Eliasson the more likely candidate in my opinion, but time will tell.

Don't be surprised if Eliasson and Fam go for big money in the summer 

Benik comes in for Fam and Odowda will step up with potentially Jonny Smith being added to the squad

May need to look at defence over the summer as William's may not be offered a deal and need RB cover 

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