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Benik (Merged)


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On 22/02/2020 at 13:39, SX227 said:

That is usually the main problem Dave - fluid build-up.As I'm sure you remember, when you increased your workload, it felt great, until the next morning when there was a bag of fluid around your graft for a bit.

That's why knees take time, plus Benik is a heavy guy, and his profession requires high-speed sideways movement - so any less than 11-12 months would concern me.

If people have had a twisted ankle, then you all recall the swelling - that's the body sending proteins,sugars and hormones to the damaged area - and these mostly bind to H2O for tranport. We are all essentially a big bag of fluid!

Write this year off, take the off-season to fully rehab slowly and add 5% extra muscle support over normal, and hopefully his knee won't go again.

it was his 'good' knee, so hopefully should respond in the same way as his old ACL which has held up well.

He should be 100% for pre-season if all goes well.

Interesting info, thanks for posting. Real shame, definitely not what we wanted to hear. Heres a 2019 quote from the guardian...

"There are currently 36 players from Europe’s five biggest leagues out with ACL injuries, which on average require 269 days’ recovery." 

Thats 9 months (confirming what you said) so it looks like it would be a super human recovery to see him play this year and definitely not worth the risk with a pre season coming up. Couldve been an absolute weapon for us if we got to the playoffs.

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4 hours ago, Meh said:

As little as 3 years ago if you heard Afobe and Wells were starting up front you would think this was for Leeds or West Brom - not Bristol City.

For those questioning LJ, MA etc, maybe this is further food for thought?

Sorry mate but there's every chance that having signed a good players such as Benik and Wells, that LJ will confuse them into not performing as they should. This is what we are discovering with other players.

Palmer clicked with Afobe but I suspect that that had little to do with LJ. Since Benik's unfortunate injury Palmer has been a lost soul and LJ seems incapable of sorting him out.

Edited by southvillekiddy
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34 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Interesting info, thanks for posting. Real shame, definitely not what we wanted to hear. Heres a 2019 quote from the guardian...

"There are currently 36 players from Europe’s five biggest leagues out with ACL injuries, which on average require 269 days’ recovery." 

Thats 9 months (confirming what you said) so it looks like it would be a super human recovery to see him play this year and definitely not worth the risk with a pre season coming up. Couldve been an absolute weapon for us if we got to the playoffs.

Good article here:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/acl-tear-surgery-rehab-how-long-does-does-it-take-2549221

 

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On 22/02/2020 at 01:38, SX227 said:

It all depends on which treatment he had.

1) Remove damaged Anterior Cruciate Ligament and replace with patella tendon. Can also be done with partial strands of hamstring tendon (not usually in a pro athlete). I'm regularly involved in the procedure in my work, so I have been involved in this op many times.

The damaged tissue is removed completely , and a new tendon is removed from the patients own body, cleaned,and then surgically attached by metal screws into the 'thick' parts of both bones above and below the patella on the replacement side. This usually takes 12 months to take, renew the muscle wastage and allow the new tissue to fully bind into that area. Fluid build-up is common and often require surgical drainage. You have to understand that the red marrow of long bones produces our red blood cells, and these screws are inserted very near to this marrow - hence the swelling problem.Human bodies use protein to repair wounds, and protein binds easily to H2O and draws fluid to the area. Clotting (also involved in the healing process) involves RBC's  to create a 'web' around the area, so as the screws go into the exact spot where some of our RBC's are produced, you get extra swelling potential from that as well. The recovery by default HAS to be very conservative, as it can be delayed very quickly and for a long period of time if you rush it.

An infection is career and even joint threatening.

Looking at the picture above, he is nowhere near a chance of playing this year. He is braced into position via hand grip and back support to prevent 'lateral slide' pressure on the knee - ie the new "acl".  He will be able to jog/ light run in a straight line at best. He is still at the extra muscle building stage.

Next step will be the beginning of sideways movement at very very low speed and angle.

If that's the op he had, he is no chance for this season, unless the club/player agree to take an incredible risk. Sideways rotation and hard contact - that tendon will shread like wet paper,and both parties will know that.It's just too soon.

2) As above, but using an artificial graft (LARS). Straight swap, no loss of body tissue except the buggered acl - usually good to go in 6-8 months full contact. Has a very short lifespan though at professional sports with contact patients - it sometimes goes within minutes, although I have seen AFL players play within 6 months for the rest if their career after a LARS repair - it's a crapshoot tbh.

Looking at what he is doing, it would appear to be option 1.  He won't be taking any part in anything until next year, unless he wants to put his entire career in jeopardy.

 

Sorry Guys - it ain't happening!

 

 

On 22/02/2020 at 13:39, SX227 said:

That is usually the main problem Dave - fluid build-up.As I'm sure you remember, when you increased your workload, it felt great, until the next morning when there was a bag of fluid around your graft for a bit.

That's why knees take time, plus Benik is a heavy guy, and his profession requires high-speed sideways movement - so any less than 11-12 months would concern me.

If people have had a twisted ankle, then you all recall the swelling - that's the body sending proteins,sugars and hormones to the damaged area - and these mostly bind to H2O for tranport. We are all essentially a big bag of fluid!

Write this year off, take the off-season to fully rehab slowly and add 5% extra muscle support over normal, and hopefully his knee won't go again.

it was his 'good' knee, so hopefully should respond in the same way as his old ACL which has held up well.

He should be 100% for pre-season if all goes well.

You obviously know well, but why have we seen often in the past players come back quicker from an ACL injury. When he was initially injured it was said he’d be back by the end of the season 

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7 hours ago, James54De said:

 

You obviously know well, but why have we seen often in the past players come back quicker from an ACL injury. When he was initially injured it was said he’d be back by the end of the season 

Lots of reasons - a partial tear, or artificial graft and good old plain luck.

Some people don't blow up with swelling, some do. 

These injuries are career threatening for older players so maybe they are keen to take the risk. 

I'd just be guessing tbh.

 

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@SX227 is your man / woman here.

I can only speak from my own experiences.  I don’t believe the ACL can get stronger itself (it’s a ligament, not a muscle), but you can provide better protection by having strong muscles around the knee.

But you can’t help a freak accident.  Benik was just trying to bring a ball down with both feet off the ground (according to Deano) and I was went up for a free header.  We both landed awkwardly.  I very much suspect Benik’s muscles were far more developed than mine.

See the other Benik thread.

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10 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Meh. I think people have been making excuses for him for too long. How much is it he gets paid - 15/20 grand a week? And I don't think he's done anything of note since September. Poor. 

£60k pw.  I believe he mentioned it on his own twitter. Thats why Stoke want rid. We might not be paying 100% though...

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plus depends on whether he damaged cartilage at same time.

I did, and that bone on bone impact was one of the reasons for fluid.

Benik might be the one to defy the “average”.  I hope so.  But if push cane to shove, I’d rather see signs of a slower bu solid recovery and it being enough for him to comeback properly (for us) next season. 

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On 25/02/2020 at 09:32, Phileas Fogg said:

That GPG ratio ignores all context. I do think he needs to prove his fitness after injury though before we sign him. 

Spot on, small sample as he was injured so early on but figures for us were decent.1419661343_Screenshot2020-03-03at16_25_23.png.0eca22152695c0fecf86600e52500d74.png

I would hope we would renegotiate the deal on the basis of the injury. There has to be a question mark, but I really hope he comes through and proves his fitness long term. As much for his own sake as our, bloke could do with some good luck.

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1 hour ago, Charlie0016 said:

If the season were to restart again in June would Benik be available to play for us or would he be back at stoke?

We don’t know the loan contract details, but Stoke chairman suggested it expired 30.06.  So any games before then would be ok.

But all subject to the date of expiry of the loan.

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Do we think the current uncertainty means that transfer bargains could be available?

Afobe being an example, would Stoke be willing cut their losses and sell cheaper than perhaps previously discussed?

Are there other clubs looking to shift players more urgently now that their revenues have taken a hit.

And could City, with a reasonable FFP position, be able to capitalise?

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30 minutes ago, mozo said:

Do we think the current uncertainty means that transfer bargains could be available?

Afobe being an example, would Stoke be willing cut their losses and sell cheaper than perhaps previously discussed?

Are there other clubs looking to shift players more urgently now that their revenues have taken a hit.

And could City, with a reasonable FFP position, be able to capitalise?

FFP will be interesting given the current climate and will almost certainly need to be relaxed for a period, if not waived altogether for a year or so.

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32 minutes ago, Scrumpty said:

FFP will be interesting given the current climate and will almost certainly need to be relaxed for a period, if not waived altogether for a year or so.

Oh no!

That'll mean the Sags will be able to splash their billions at long last!!!

#stillcomingforusmind

 

(Nice one Benik,good lad)

 

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10 hours ago, Scrumpty said:

FFP will be interesting given the current climate and will almost certainly need to be relaxed for a period, if not waived altogether for a year or so.

I would think, at least logically speaking, that the loss of revenue will simply be deducted and the period in which it covers removed from the equation. Theoretically that would be a broadly neutral result. I am sure the likes of Villa, Derby, Wednesday and others will wish to chip in with a more 'favourable' new way of calculation. That said they are facing historical rule breaks are they not so I would think that would not change; potentially only delayed.

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