Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Not sure I agree there Dave.

Most of Fubars post is speculative and very unlikely. 

With O'Leary, Walsh, etc playing we probably wouldn't be in the playoff race.

 

Yes, our wage bill is up 30% or whatever from Cotterills time, but we have gone from relegation fodder to playoff contenders. We fell short last season, and I think we will again this season, but as a club we are now established as a top half side. Could even say consistent playoff contenders with a little stretch given we were well in the race before dropping to 11th the season before last.

Cotterill's side was also massively underperforming in the Championship under his tenure.

I was replying to Robbo who was trying to justify net spend as LJ doing well on the financial part of his “balanced scorecard”.  That part was nothing to do with Cotts.

Wage Bill - BCFC only (not including AG Ltd)

2019 Accounts - £24.6m

2016 Accounts - £15.4m

Increase of 59.7% (not 30% or whatever....twice the amount you suggest).

If we go back to:

2015 Accounts- £9.6m

Our wage bill has gone up 156%.

And that’s just the wage bill.

If we look at the amortised contract depreciation:

2019: £8.1m

2016: £2.3m

That’s a 252% increase.

The good part is the transfer profit we’ve made....which has kept our heads above water FFP-wise.

16 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Which sounds like he's not been trusted by the board of those clubs.

That’s a fair question, but worth a look at the clubs (apart from City):

Burnley - never had much to throw about, gave them solidity....but ultimately other managers came in and did get them up (finished 13th, 17th, 15th...were 16th when he went)

Forest - massive debts, owner died etc

Portsmouth - massive debts from Prem

Birmingham - massive probs from Redknapp spending spree

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s a fair question, but worth a look at the clubs (apart from City):

Burnley - never had much to throw about, gave them solidity....but ultimately other managers came in and did get them up (finished 13th, 17th, 15th...were 16th when he went)

Forest - massive debts, owner died etc

Portsmouth - massive debts from Prem

Birmingham - massive probs from Redknapp spending spree

The question always comes back to "why is he not in work somewhere if he has the ability to make it at our level and above?". It can't ALWAYS be the fault of the clubs. There is obviously something wrong, maybe its his personality and rubbing people up the wrong way, maybe its his coaching ability or lack of at the higher levels, who knows?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

The question always comes back to "why is he not in work somewhere if he has the ability to make it at our level and above?". It can't ALWAYS be the fault of the clubs. There is obviously something wrong, maybe its his personality and rubbing people up the wrong way, maybe its his coaching ability or lack of at the higher levels, who knows?

Quite possibly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was replying to Robbo who was trying to justify net spend as LJ doing well on the financial part of his “balanced scorecard”.  That part was nothing to do with Cotts.

Wage Bill - BCFC only (not including AG Ltd)

2019 Accounts - £24.6m

2016 Accounts - £15.4m

Increase of 59.7% (not 30% or whatever....twice the amount you suggest).

If we go back to:

2015 Accounts- £9.6m

Our wage bill has gone up 156%.

And that’s just the wage bill.

If we look at the amortised contract depreciation:

2019: £8.1m

2016: £2.3m

That’s a 252% increase.

The good part is the transfer profit we’ve made....which has kept our heads above water FFP-wise.

That’s a fair question, but worth a look at the clubs (apart from City):

Burnley - never had much to throw about, gave them solidity....but ultimately other managers came in and did get them up (finished 13th, 17th, 15th...were 16th when he went)

Forest - massive debts, owner died etc

Portsmouth - massive debts from Prem

Birmingham - massive probs from Redknapp spending spree

 

The other thing to say there is that when Cotts went to Birmingham as assistant, it was on an agreement that Redknapp would step down at the end of the season. Redknapp changed his mind, that's why Cotts left. Cotts made a very good impression at Birmingham though hence why they returned to him after sacking Redknapp.

By then though the damage was done. Cotterill was unable to sign any players, at all. Add to that major injuries to key players . A quick google search shows even the idiotic Asian owners sanctioned this statement at the time.

“The board would like to place on record their sincere thanks to Steve, not only for his significant contribution at the conclusion of last season for which we will remain grateful, but also for his genuine efforts, contribution and hard work during his tenure in this 2017/18 campaign.

“Steve has conducted himself professionally on behalf of the club at all times, his work ethic and honesty are a credit to him and there is a genuine sadness at this decision. However, the board feel that a change in management at this stage is in the best interests of the football club.”

After Cotterill was sacked Birmingham had several players return from injury and suspension, which probably made all the difference.

As you allude to, Cotterill has been unlucky enough to have never been properly backed by club owners in the Championship, even at Burnley he had to sell a key player every season with no equivalent replacement.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

First of all if we still had Cotterill we would be bottom of Championship maybe in the same league as Rovers. Secondly just a bit pointless really as he’s not here and he won’t come back.

I agree with your statement above.  I have to say your original statement of it being 'one of the most embarrassing posts ever on the forum' is a bit hyperbolic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I was replying to Robbo who was trying to justify net spend as LJ doing well on the financial part of his “balanced scorecard”.  That part was nothing to do with Cotts.

Wage Bill - BCFC only (not including AG Ltd)

2019 Accounts - £24.6m

2016 Accounts - £15.4m

Increase of 59.7% (not 30% or whatever....twice the amount you suggest).

If we go back to:

2015 Accounts- £9.6m

Our wage bill has gone up 156%.

And that’s just the wage bill.

If we look at the amortised contract depreciation:

2019: £8.1m

2016: £2.3m

That’s a 252% increase.

The good part is the transfer profit we’ve made....which has kept our heads above water FFP-wise.

That’s a fair question, but worth a look at the clubs (apart from City):

Burnley - never had much to throw about, gave them solidity....but ultimately other managers came in and did get them up (finished 13th, 17th, 15th...were 16th when he went)

Forest - massive debts, owner died etc

Portsmouth - massive debts from Prem

Birmingham - massive probs from Redknapp spending spree

 

I took the 30% from someone else's comment further up the thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Beni71 said:

Cotterill was an excellent league 1 manager. Played some entertaining football but couldn’t adapt to championship life and didn’t buy into the clubs strategy. Come the end Cotterills football was turgid and left us languishing near the bottom of the championship. Not much of a comparison.....

IMO LJs career highlight was keeping us up that season. Agree football this season has not been as entertaining but if some how we end up in the top 6 this season, then in a results driven business it will have been success. 

I think all managers have a certain lifespan at clubs.  Cotterill reached the end of his probably quickened by not being able to get in ( or let down) his key transfer targets.

I'm certain lee has reached the end of his time here.  He’s established us as a Championship club which after years of yoyoing between the division which is a great achievement but I feel this has come at a price and we are now a really boring club to watch, one where good players are coached to grind out results and not entertain.  Even given our league position I don’t feel we have a chance of a playoff spot let alone promotion.  We don’t create enough chances, we don’t shoot from outside the box.  It really is a hard watch at times.

 We are more than happy to trade players and release coaches to keep the club moving forward and the manager should be no different.  The summer is time for change and the next stage in the clubs progression
 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

In your opinion. Cannot be proved. LJ lost his way during that 8 game debacle and yet still managed to stay up although you reckon relegation is a certainty when you're losing games. Cotterill was sacked unfairly  and it's all because LJ was lined up by Lansdown ages before SC's sacking. There is no one who doesn't accept this in all fairness.

Sorry for delayed response - just reading some stuff back.

Completely non-ITK, but I believe you are right.  Ashton was brought in pre-Xmas on an advisory / consultancy basis before being officially announced 2 days after Cotts was sacked.  Cotts had thrown MA’s database in the “recycle bin” and trusted his own methods of spotting players for his summer 2014 recruitment drive....so no way would Cotts work with MA above him.

As I’m led to believe, MA and the board (except SL) wanted Michael Appleton....but SL insisted on LJ.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I think all managers have a certain lifespan at clubs.  Cotterill reached the end of his probably quickened by not being able to get in ( or let down) his key transfer targets.

I'm certain lee has reached the end of his time here.  He’s established us as a Championship club which after years of yoyoing between the division which is a great achievement but I feel this has come at a price and we are now a really boring club to watch, one where good players are coached to grind out results and not entertain.  Even given our league position I don’t feel we have a chance of a playoff spot let alone promotion.  We don’t create enough chances, we don’t shoot from outside the box.  It really is a hard watch at times.

 We are more than happy to trade players and release coaches to keep the club moving forward and the manager should be no different.  The summer is time for change and the next stage in the clubs progression
 

Think that is a superb post, really well sumised.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t remember where I read it but Cotterill had agreed the fees and transfers for Maguire and Gray. As it was pre-season, both players and cotterill went on holiday. Whilst they were all away, ‘someone at the club’ tried to re-negotiate the prices for both players who’s respective clubs told city to **** off. Both clubs then refused to sell both players to city and they both went elsewhere. Cotterill then came back from holiday to the news. 
 

Don’t quote me on that, but I read/heard something very similar a few months after Cotterill was sacked. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

I can’t remember where I read it but Cotterill had agreed the fees and transfers for Maguire and Gray. As it was pre-season, both players and cotterill went on holiday. Whilst they were all away, ‘someone at the club’ tried to re-negotiate the prices for both players who’s respective clubs told city to **** off. Both clubs then refused to sell both players to city and they both went elsewhere. Cotterill then came back from holiday to the news. 
 

Don’t quote me on that, but I read/heard something very similar a few months after Cotterill was sacked. 

That was the story.  Tetbury Massive posted it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

I can’t remember where I read it but Cotterill had agreed the fees and transfers for Maguire and Gray. As it was pre-season, both players and cotterill went on holiday. Whilst they were all away, ‘someone at the club’ tried to re-negotiate the prices for both players who’s respective clubs told city to **** off. Both clubs then refused to sell both players to city and they both went elsewhere. Cotterill then came back from holiday to the news. 
 

Don’t quote me on that, but I read/heard something very similar a few months after Cotterill was sacked. 

Same as I understood it to be.

One very important interview took place between SL and Twentyman. SL was asked one question about wages and why we'd not been able to sign Gray (I think). Question: could you compete with Burnley for wages, A= yes we could compete with Burnley on wages. The next question should have been, did you? the question wasn't asked. As a club in our position with our history, I believe we'd have to pay a bit over the odds to beat what is considered to be a bigger club.

Note: When anyone has left our club, nobody, not one, has ever made a comment about why or how they left our club. This only leaves me to speculate that they've had a decent pay off, as long as they signed a non disclosure contract.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting how Cotterill's name keeps returning in regards to LJ's position. I am a big Cotterill fan and posted his name as a good candidate for the job before either McInnes or O'Driscoll was appointed. He seemed like just what we needed; down to earth, his own man with a bit of old school about him. However, I believe his tenure really ended in that summer when the deals for Maguire and Gray fell through. Imo he was never able to 'get over' those disappointments fully. It appeared there was a Mexican standoff of sorts behind the scenes. I don't think anyone handled the situation well, it was never fully resolved and if SC was going to be let go it arguably should have happened sooner (disappointing 1-1 home draw v MKDons around Xmas?)

My point being it was a massive shame for all the club and everyone lost out. We never got to see how far his side could go and LJ's appointment had that cloud attached; he never deserved that either. That cloud is still lingering in threads like this. Whatever you think of him its incredulous to me that SC could have gone from being one of our best managers to a no hoper during an off season, something went badly wrong.

While stats and lower league management will be held against him, the lack of respect shown to Cotterill, even years after when he, as others say, isn't and I doubt will be mentioned for future Championship jobs, is staggering. What he did at Cheltenham was truly incredible and decades after he turned them into a league club they are still there punching well above their weight. He laid foundations at Burnley not to mention getting us out of the 3rd tier in so much style (cannot believe how many of our supporters decry that achievement). He certainly leaves clubs in much better states than he finds them.

There was a massive balls up in the summer of 2015 (SC may or not have been totally blameless, I don't know) and, again, everyone lost out. Real shame.

In terms of who they are, what they are achieving/achieved here and how they achieved it, LJ and SC are incomparable I think. 

LJ's surprised me and exceeded my expectations. He and his team seem to range from the sublime to the ridiculous, and it has a polarizing effect. I do feel that barring a large turn around in form from here on (which looks unlikely but couldn't totally rule it out!) I feel his time here maybe petering out.

Excuse the length, all feels very cathartic. 

COYR

 

  • Like 2
  • Flames 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nbafc said:

It's interesting how Cotterill's name keeps returning in regards to LJ's position. I am a big Cotterill fan and posted his name as a good candidate for the job before either McInnes or O'Driscoll was appointed. He seemed like just what we needed; down to earth, his own man with a bit of old school about him. However, I believe his tenure really ended in that summer when the deals for Maguire and Gray fell through. Imo he was never able to 'get over' those disappointments fully. It appeared there was a Mexican standoff of sorts behind the scenes. I don't think anyone handled the situation well, it was never fully resolved and if SC was going to be let go it arguably should have happened sooner (disappointing 1-1 home draw v MKDons around Xmas?)

My point being it was a massive shame for all the club and everyone lost out. We never got to see how far his side could go and LJ's appointment had that cloud attached; he never deserved that either. That cloud is still lingering in threads like this. Whatever you think of him its incredulous to me that SC could have gone from being one of our best managers to a no hoper during an off season, something went badly wrong.

While stats and lower league management will be held against him, the lack of respect shown to Cotterill, even years after when he, as others say, isn't and I doubt will be mentioned for future Championship jobs, is staggering. What he did at Cheltenham was truly incredible and decades after he turned them into a league club they are still there punching well above their weight. He laid foundations at Burnley not to mention getting us out of the 3rd tier in so much style (cannot believe how many of our supporters decry that achievement). He certainly leaves clubs in much better states than he finds them.

There was a massive balls up in the summer of 2015 (SC may or not have been totally blameless, I don't know) and, again, everyone lost out. Real shame.

In terms of who they are, what they are achieving/achieved here and how they achieved it, LJ and SC are incomparable I think. 

LJ's surprised me and exceeded my expectations. He and his team seem to range from the sublime to the ridiculous, and it has a polarizing effect. I do feel that barring a large turn around in form from here on (which looks unlikely but couldn't totally rule it out!) I feel his time here maybe petering out.

Excuse the length, all feels very cathartic. 

COYR

 

Great post, and the bold bit really ought to be the end of the discussion. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

If the target is promotion/play offs, then I would say no.

Exactly my point being if we are not realistically going to get that then I would at least like some form of entertainment on a Saturday not the dross we are currently served up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tunnie12345 said:

Exactly my point being if we are not realistically going to get that then I would at least like some form of entertainment on a Saturday not the dross we are currently served up. 

I don't think anyone on this site would disagree with you there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s far less complicated than yore making it Dave. It’s simple mathematics.

Sell several players for an estimated sum of £80m and recruit several players at around £50m. My arithmetic makes that £30m difference.

I don’t read any accounts partly because I find them dry and dull and partly because they mean very little to me.

 

I genuinely chucked at this. On one hand, you've got @Davefevs who's painstakingly taken the time to do his own research into our accounts.. then you have Robbored from OTIB who dismissed it with "It’s far less complicated than yore making it Dave"! Comical!

When you read RR's posts through the lens of knowing he is a troll, they're far more entertaining and far less annoying.

Edited by Phileas Fogg
  • Like 1
  • Hmmm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Nbafc said:

In terms of who they are, what they are achieving/achieved here and how they achieved it, LJ and SC are incomparable I think. 

Excellent post - I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Cotts appointment lifted my spirits after years of footballing gloom, and what a season 2014/15 was! That night in Bradford...an almost perfect performance. A manager with a career track record of success...a real leader.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Red white and red said:

I can’t remember where I read it but Cotterill had agreed the fees and transfers for Maguire and Gray. As it was pre-season, both players and cotterill went on holiday. Whilst they were all away, ‘someone at the club’ tried to re-negotiate the prices for both players who’s respective clubs told city to **** off. Both clubs then refused to sell both players to city and they both went elsewhere. Cotterill then came back from holiday to the news. 
 

Don’t quote me on that, but I read/heard something very similar a few months after Cotterill was sacked. 

There’s another side to that story.

SL made the right decision 

Edited by Riaz
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...