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Nagy and Massengo


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3 hours ago, Bobby Bollax said:

Currently they’re both too lightweight and the speed of the championship is making them look ordinary. No better than Walsh & morrell imo.

ill be surprised if Nagy is here at the start of next season

Tactical moreso the reason than the players themselves. 

Will always look lightweight when playing a two-man central midfield versus three.

Barry Bannan and Ben Pearson are not what I would call units, just as a comparison off the top of head. 

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15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Sorry, @Exiled Robin, ???

 

14 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Amazing.

People see what they want to see.

 

 

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

To add:

16/23 forward

14/15 backward

12/13 sideways

Dont get me wrong, I don’t think he was great yesterday, but not as bad as some suggested.

It's amazing what a false narrative stats can produce, and it's also amazing what people don't see - not every completed pass is actually a good pass, in fact in Nagy's case here, many of his completed passes were poor passes or bad options.  Here's a breakdown :

7 secs - miscontrols, resulting in bobbling pass to MH, who has to turn backwards - nullifying the attack (poor touch and execution)
14 secs - acres of space to receive, turn and consider different angles and options, but passes it back to FB, unnecessarily (not taking responsibility)
25 secs - receives in a few yards of space, could take a touch, could turn to his right into lots of space to relieve the WBA pressure, but plays a sloppy first time panicked pass to no-one.  This ends up as a completed pass but certainly not to the person he'd intended it for (no awareness of space around him, panicky)
27 secs - No pressure on him, opportunity for a forward pass, but goes back and immediately hold his hand up to the forwards to apologise (not being brave on the ball)
41 secs - Break is on.  He could carry the ball down the wing, but decides to pop a difficult ball inside to NW, but not put into NW's stride, forcing him to stop and slow up the potential counter (poor decision making, poor execution)
45 secs - Easy pass into stride for COD to attack down the wing, pass overhit by about 20 yards, nullifying good attacking position (poor execution)
48 secs - Has about 6 options in the middle of the park, chooses to pass it straight to their best player to set up a 2v2 for them (poor decision making)
1 min - Easy pass to JD.  Played too far infront of him and ends up as a throw (poor execution)
1m 7 secs - Does very well to beat a man and get out of trouble, then passes inside to MH, but plays it 5 yards behind him, making MH turn backwards (poor execution)
1m 15 secs - Attempts difficult pass to NE, which is easily intercepted.  This was never on, should've lifted over the full back for NE to run onto, and turn their defence (poor decision making)
1m 20 secs - Completed forward pass to FD, but got VERY lucky with it - the ball went through a WBA midfielders legs, 15 yards after the pass - should've been intercepted really
1m 28 secs - Easy pass to NE's feet.  Intercepted (poor execution)
1m 50 secs - Receives ball, could let it roll across him and into space, but decides to take it back into the tight zone, then attempts difficult ball to NE which is intercepted (poor awareness)
1m 55 secs - Panicky first time pass giving it away (poor awareness and poor execution)
1m 57 secs - Easy pass square to JD to allow him to stride forward to attack, but plays it 10 yards infront and 20 yards wide of him, very sloppy (poor execution)
2m 15 secs - Easy square ball to AW, but plays it 5 yards behind him, forcing AW backwards, slowing the tempo (poor execution)
2m 28 secs - Attempted through ball to JP to his right, but this was never going to be completed, whereas the same ball to his left would see NW in on goal (poor decision making)

The passing montage also doesn't show the useless chest control from a throw-in, from which he then gave away a throw to them, the useless attempt at a headed clearance by his own corner flag, gifting them a corner, and multiple other pieces of either poor touch, awareness or decision making.

This video shows plenty of completed passes.  But many of them were poorly executed or wrong decisions.  It was an awful individual performance, truly one of the worst I've seen in years.
 

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11 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Until we get top quality management/coaching staff we will continue to coach the talent out of players that join us.

Players like Nagy and Massengo are obviously very talented but struggling at he moment.

I'm not sure if it is the coaching and what is expected of them from the coaching staff (why get them in if you want to change the way they play if that is the case) or just that they need time to adjust to the kick and rush of the Championship. Nagy also isn't 100% fit according to him and LJ yet is still selected. 

Lucky to have the pair of them imo and hopefully they are both here next season.

 

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On 22/02/2020 at 21:39, AppyDAZE said:

There's a theme developing then. Good, proven footballers inexplicable turning bad...   

Theories welcomed, but not by RedDave.

I don't think it is at all inexplicable.

Massengo is 18 and a raw inconsistent talent. He shows what he can do in flashes but is not currently good enough to start regularly.

Henrikson has not played regularly since last season and is regaining match fitness.

Smith and Nagy are not fully fit. Not excusing either of their performances in recent games but I don't think Smith would be playing anywhere near as much as he had prior to his recent injury if Nagy were fully fit and I reckon Nagy only played Saturday because of Smith's injury. I think the reality is that all season we have had central midfielders playing regularly when not fit due to them being slightly fitter than even more injured options and it has a massive impact on our performances, especially against the top sides. 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

 

It's amazing what a false narrative stats can produce, and it's also amazing what people don't see - not every completed pass is actually a good pass, in fact in Nagy's case here, many of his completed passes were poor passes or bad options.  Here's a breakdown :

7 secs - miscontrols, resulting in bobbling pass to MH, who has to turn backwards - nullifying the attack (poor touch and execution)
14 secs - acres of space to receive, turn and consider different angles and options, but passes it back to FB, unnecessarily (not taking responsibility)
25 secs - receives in a few yards of space, could take a touch, could turn to his right into lots of space to relieve the WBA pressure, but plays a sloppy first time panicked pass to no-one.  This ends up as a completed pass but certainly not to the person he'd intended it for (no awareness of space around him, panicky)
27 secs - No pressure on him, opportunity for a forward pass, but goes back and immediately hold his hand up to the forwards to apologise (not being brave on the ball)
41 secs - Break is on.  He could carry the ball down the wing, but decides to pop a difficult ball inside to NW, but not put into NW's stride, forcing him to stop and slow up the potential counter (poor decision making, poor execution)
45 secs - Easy pass into stride for COD to attack down the wing, pass overhit by about 20 yards, nullifying good attacking position (poor execution)
48 secs - Has about 6 options in the middle of the park, chooses to pass it straight to their best player to set up a 2v2 for them (poor decision making)
1 min - Easy pass to JD.  Played too far infront of him and ends up as a throw (poor execution)
1m 7 secs - Does very well to beat a man and get out of trouble, then passes inside to MH, but plays it 5 yards behind him, making MH turn backwards (poor execution)
1m 15 secs - Attempts difficult pass to NE, which is easily intercepted.  This was never on, should've lifted over the full back for NE to run onto, and turn their defence (poor decision making)
1m 20 secs - Completed forward pass to FD, but got VERY lucky with it - the ball went through a WBA midfielders legs, 15 yards after the pass - should've been intercepted really
1m 28 secs - Easy pass to NE's feet.  Intercepted (poor execution)
1m 50 secs - Receives ball, could let it roll across him and into space, but decides to take it back into the tight zone, then attempts difficult ball to NE which is intercepted (poor awareness)
1m 55 secs - Panicky first time pass giving it away (poor awareness and poor execution)
1m 57 secs - Easy pass square to JD to allow him to stride forward to attack, but plays it 10 yards infront and 20 yards wide of him, very sloppy (poor execution)
2m 15 secs - Easy square ball to AW, but plays it 5 yards behind him, forcing AW backwards, slowing the tempo (poor execution)
2m 28 secs - Attempted through ball to JP to his right, but this was never going to be completed, whereas the same ball to his left would see NW in on goal (poor decision making)

The passing montage also doesn't show the useless chest control from a throw-in, from which he then gave away a throw to them, the useless attempt at a headed clearance by his own corner flag, gifting them a corner, and multiple other pieces of either poor touch, awareness or decision making.

This video shows plenty of completed passes.  But many of them were poorly executed or wrong decisions.  It was an awful individual performance, truly one of the worst I've seen in years.
 

The context was (paraphrased):

- he hadn’t made a success pass all game

and once disproved:

- because all his passes are sideways or backwards

But nice analysis Harry.  It’s just frustrating when people make everything so black and white about a player’s performance. 

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

It's amazing what a false narrative stats can produce, and it's also amazing what people don't see - not every completed pass is actually a good pass, in fact in Nagy's case here, many of his completed passes were poor passes or bad options.  Here's a breakdown :

7 secs - miscontrols, resulting in bobbling pass to MH, who has to turn backwards - nullifying the attack (poor touch and execution)
14 secs - acres of space to receive, turn and consider different angles and options, but passes it back to FB, unnecessarily (not taking responsibility)
25 secs - receives in a few yards of space, could take a touch, could turn to his right into lots of space to relieve the WBA pressure, but plays a sloppy first time panicked pass to no-one.  This ends up as a completed pass but certainly not to the person he'd intended it for (no awareness of space around him, panicky)
27 secs - No pressure on him, opportunity for a forward pass, but goes back and immediately hold his hand up to the forwards to apologise (not being brave on the ball)
41 secs - Break is on.  He could carry the ball down the wing, but decides to pop a difficult ball inside to NW, but not put into NW's stride, forcing him to stop and slow up the potential counter (poor decision making, poor execution)
45 secs - Easy pass into stride for COD to attack down the wing, pass overhit by about 20 yards, nullifying good attacking position (poor execution)
48 secs - Has about 6 options in the middle of the park, chooses to pass it straight to their best player to set up a 2v2 for them (poor decision making)
1 min - Easy pass to JD.  Played too far infront of him and ends up as a throw (poor execution)
1m 7 secs - Does very well to beat a man and get out of trouble, then passes inside to MH, but plays it 5 yards behind him, making MH turn backwards (poor execution)
1m 15 secs - Attempts difficult pass to NE, which is easily intercepted.  This was never on, should've lifted over the full back for NE to run onto, and turn their defence (poor decision making)
1m 20 secs - Completed forward pass to FD, but got VERY lucky with it - the ball went through a WBA midfielders legs, 15 yards after the pass - should've been intercepted really
1m 28 secs - Easy pass to NE's feet.  Intercepted (poor execution)
1m 50 secs - Receives ball, could let it roll across him and into space, but decides to take it back into the tight zone, then attempts difficult ball to NE which is intercepted (poor awareness)
1m 55 secs - Panicky first time pass giving it away (poor awareness and poor execution)
1m 57 secs - Easy pass square to JD to allow him to stride forward to attack, but plays it 10 yards infront and 20 yards wide of him, very sloppy (poor execution)
2m 15 secs - Easy square ball to AW, but plays it 5 yards behind him, forcing AW backwards, slowing the tempo (poor execution)
2m 28 secs - Attempted through ball to JP to his right, but this was never going to be completed, whereas the same ball to his left would see NW in on goal (poor decision making)

The passing montage also doesn't show the useless chest control from a throw-in, from which he then gave away a throw to them, the useless attempt at a headed clearance by his own corner flag, gifting them a corner, and multiple other pieces of either poor touch, awareness or decision making.

This video shows plenty of completed passes.  But many of them were poorly executed or wrong decisions.  It was an awful individual performance, truly one of the worst I've seen in years.
 

I stopped reading after the first two examples because that’s exactly what I saw. Some of the passes were pretty dangerous too. 

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17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

To add:

16/23 forward

14/15 backward

12/13 sideways

Dont get me wrong, I don’t think he was great yesterday, but not as bad as some suggested.

The trouble is, compared to a physical side like West Brom, he has no brawn and just got pushed off the ball.  It looked like a little kid trying to keep the ball from the PE teacher at times.

Of course, we could say the same for most of our players in that game.

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

It's amazing what a false narrative stats can produce, and it's also amazing what people don't see - not every completed pass is actually a good pass, in fact in Nagy's case here, many of his completed passes were poor passes or bad options.  Here's a breakdown :

7 secs - miscontrols, resulting in bobbling pass to MH, who has to turn backwards - nullifying the attack (poor touch and execution)
14 secs - acres of space to receive, turn and consider different angles and options, but passes it back to FB, unnecessarily (not taking responsibility)
25 secs - receives in a few yards of space, could take a touch, could turn to his right into lots of space to relieve the WBA pressure, but plays a sloppy first time panicked pass to no-one.  This ends up as a completed pass but certainly not to the person he'd intended it for (no awareness of space around him, panicky)
27 secs - No pressure on him, opportunity for a forward pass, but goes back and immediately hold his hand up to the forwards to apologise (not being brave on the ball)
41 secs - Break is on.  He could carry the ball down the wing, but decides to pop a difficult ball inside to NW, but not put into NW's stride, forcing him to stop and slow up the potential counter (poor decision making, poor execution)
45 secs - Easy pass into stride for COD to attack down the wing, pass overhit by about 20 yards, nullifying good attacking position (poor execution)
48 secs - Has about 6 options in the middle of the park, chooses to pass it straight to their best player to set up a 2v2 for them (poor decision making)
1 min - Easy pass to JD.  Played too far infront of him and ends up as a throw (poor execution)
1m 7 secs - Does very well to beat a man and get out of trouble, then passes inside to MH, but plays it 5 yards behind him, making MH turn backwards (poor execution)
1m 15 secs - Attempts difficult pass to NE, which is easily intercepted.  This was never on, should've lifted over the full back for NE to run onto, and turn their defence (poor decision making)
1m 20 secs - Completed forward pass to FD, but got VERY lucky with it - the ball went through a WBA midfielders legs, 15 yards after the pass - should've been intercepted really
1m 28 secs - Easy pass to NE's feet.  Intercepted (poor execution)
1m 50 secs - Receives ball, could let it roll across him and into space, but decides to take it back into the tight zone, then attempts difficult ball to NE which is intercepted (poor awareness)
1m 55 secs - Panicky first time pass giving it away (poor awareness and poor execution)
1m 57 secs - Easy pass square to JD to allow him to stride forward to attack, but plays it 10 yards infront and 20 yards wide of him, very sloppy (poor execution)
2m 15 secs - Easy square ball to AW, but plays it 5 yards behind him, forcing AW backwards, slowing the tempo (poor execution)
2m 28 secs - Attempted through ball to JP to his right, but this was never going to be completed, whereas the same ball to his left would see NW in on goal (poor decision making)

The passing montage also doesn't show the useless chest control from a throw-in, from which he then gave away a throw to them, the useless attempt at a headed clearance by his own corner flag, gifting them a corner, and multiple other pieces of either poor touch, awareness or decision making.

This video shows plenty of completed passes.  But many of them were poorly executed or wrong decisions.  It was an awful individual performance, truly one of the worst I've seen in years.
 

You must live an exciting life.

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2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Yep, every single pass should be spot on with forward momentum.

Should have 100% success rate every game.

Regardless of the opposition or the players around him.

:w00t:

Who said that? No one is saying a player will not make mistakes in a game, and I for one certainly don’t believe in having to pass forwards all the time, quite the opposite in fact, I love a bit of ball-retention. 
But Nagy’s performance was poor. His execution of many of his passes was poor. His decision making was poor. He panicked too often and held no composure on the ball. 

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The context was (paraphrased):

- he hadn’t made a success pass all game

and once disproved:

- because all his passes are sideways or backwards

But nice analysis Harry.  It’s just frustrating when people make everything so black and white about a player’s performance. 

The natural reaction to a player that passes straight to the opposition about 5 times in the space a 25 minutes is to say “he couldn’t pass it”. 
Of course he made successful passes. If he couldn’t, he wouldn’t be a pro footballer. 
I also have no problem with back/side passes. But I do have a problem when it’s the wrong decision and the player, especially a CM, is not taking responsibility and passing the buck to a CB to use the ball effectively. 
So yes, his pass completion percentage was good, but that doesn’t tell the whole story which my eyes could see, and the poor execution and decision making he made, even on many of the ‘completed’ passes. 
 

@Chivs why the turd emoji. Perhaps you want to contribute more positively than that? 

3 minutes ago, Lez said:

You must live an exciting life.

Took 10 minutes. Not a big deal. 

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1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I suspect Webster, Brownhill, Reid, Bryan, Flint and Kelly would all disagree. 

You said all this to me before mate? There's truth in what you say but all those players are from the UK and this thread is about two foreign players who seem to have faded after impressive starts with us. They appear to have lost their confidence if not there talent. They lookto have de-skilled since signing for us? There is a lot of evidence that we appear to be less successful in coaching foreign players and even those from the UK described under the cop-out, catch-all label as having "attitude". This leads me to believe that our coaching is obvious, lacking in subtlety and in individuality. 

And as an aside I have to point out that there is considerable history of this limited coaching ability at out club, it's not a new phenomenon .eg. Ivan Sproule, a player from the UK, and despite him being an obviously intelligent, articulate bloke and one of the most exciting attacking players we have ever had, with buckets of skill (viz a vie his goal away at Leicester some years ago) , our coaching staff at the time found it impossible to teach him how to cross a ball reliably.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Who said that? No one is saying a player will not make mistakes in a game, and I for one certainly don’t believe in having to pass forwards all the time, quite the opposite in fact, I love a bit of ball-retention. 
But Nagy’s performance was poor. His execution of many of his passes was poor. His decision making was poor. He panicked too often and held no composure on the ball. 

The natural reaction to a player that passes straight to the opposition about 5 times in the space a 25 minutes is to say “he couldn’t pass it”. 
Of course he made successful passes. If he couldn’t, he wouldn’t be a pro footballer. 
I also have no problem with back/side passes. But I do have a problem when it’s the wrong decision and the player, especially a CM, is not taking responsibility and passing the buck to a CB to use the ball effectively. 
So yes, his pass completion percentage was good, but that doesn’t tell the whole story which my eyes could see, and the poor execution and decision making he made, even on many of the ‘completed’ passes. 
 

@Chivs why the turd emoji. Perhaps you want to contribute more positively than that? 

Took 10 minutes. Not a big deal. 

In hindsight I  think the turd emoji does sum it up nicely 

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1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

Players like Nagy and Massengo are obviously very talented but struggling at he moment.

I'm not sure if it is the coaching and what is expected of them from the coaching staff (why get them in if you want to change the way they play if that is the case) or just that they need time to adjust to the kick and rush of the Championship. Nagy also isn't 100% fit according to him and LJ yet is still selected. 

Lucky to have the pair of them imo and hopefully they are both here next season.

 

Well said mate. What I have highlighted in your post seems to be exactly the case. We should be able to learn from them and incorporate what they have into our game. We signed them on what we saw and admired?

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Who said that? No one is saying a player will not make mistakes in a game, and I for one certainly don’t believe in having to pass forwards all the time, quite the opposite in fact, I love a bit of ball-retention. 
But Nagy’s performance was poor. His execution of many of his passes was poor. His decision making was poor. He panicked too often and held no composure on the ball. 

The natural reaction to a player that passes straight to the opposition about 5 times in the space a 25 minutes is to say “he couldn’t pass it”. 
Of course he made successful passes. If he couldn’t, he wouldn’t be a pro footballer. 
I also have no problem with back/side passes. But I do have a problem when it’s the wrong decision and the player, especially a CM, is not taking responsibility and passing the buck to a CB to use the ball effectively. 
So yes, his pass completion percentage was good, but that doesn’t tell the whole story which my eyes could see, and the poor execution and decision making he made, even on many of the ‘completed’ passes. 

 

@Chivs why the turd emoji. Perhaps you want to contribute more positively than that? 

Took 10 minutes. Not a big deal. 

Yep, not disagreeing. I didn’t think he had a  great game either but I didn’t think he was shit like some. Below average (in my expectations)?  Yes. 

@southvillekiddy i wonder whether the intensity of training to meet the rigours of the Champ takes a toll on some for match day whilst they adjust?

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5 minutes ago, Lez said:

In hindsight I  think the turd emoji does sum it up nicely 

So do you think he had a good game? Do you think he could’ve done a helluva lot better. Or are you just gonna say my analysis is shit? 
Thoroughly good contribution squire 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, not disagreeing. I didn’t think he had a  great game either but I didn’t think he was shit like some. Below average (in my expectations)?  Yes. 

@southvillekiddy i wonder whether the intensity of training to meet the rigours of the Champ takes a toll on some for match day whilst they adjust?

When you see the players wearing there sports-performance-trackers do you ever get the feeling that there's a lot of bollocks to all that side of being a "modern footballer". "Good lad, you've run 16 miles in that game" (you haven't contributed much but you've run 16 miles). Giving too much emphasis to physical fitness could be viewed as a convenient smokescreen for not dealing with the individual coaching that a player needs, bringing out their individual talent and contribution to the team?

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10 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

When you see the players wearing there sports-performance-trackers do you ever get the feeling that there's a lot of bollocks to all that side of being a "modern footballer". "Good lad, you've run 16 miles in that game" (you haven't contributed much but you've run 16 miles). Giving too much emphasis to physical fitness could be viewed as a convenient smokescreen for not dealing with the individual coaching that a player needs, bringing out their individual talent and contribution to the team?

Think there is a balance SK. How much does the head-coach let the Sports Science guys drive player availability?  You can bet your bottom dollar you’ll get:

LJ: do you reckon you can give it a go today?

Player A:  yeah, might not last but better to start and see

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Think there is a balance SK. How much does the head-coach let the Sports Science guys drive player availability?  You can bet your bottom dollar you’ll get:

LJ: do you reckon you can give it a go today?

Player A:  yeah, might not last but better to start and see

 

As I said Dave , Kevin Blackwell (Was Excellent to listen to on numerous matters) made a comment that the sports scientists and medical teams ‘ have started to think they run the Club ‘

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Just thought I’d add a comedy twist to this Nagy performance. 
My 6 year old daughter said to me when walking back to the car “Daddy, why was everyone not happy with the number 4”. 
I said, “well, he didn’t play very well, but he’s been injured for a while so maybe he’s not back up to speed with the game”. 
She said “maybe his brain isn’t working”. 
I said “yes, could be, he’s been out for a while so maybe he wasn’t as alert as he should be”. 
She said “Well, my teacher says I’m clever, so maybe he could borrow one of my brains. If his brain isn’t working very well he could have one of mine, because I have 2”. 
 

Out of the mouths of babes, as they say. Nagy’s brain wasn’t working! 
In a funny way, I couldn’t agree more. 

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10 minutes ago, Harry said:

Just thought I’d add a comedy twist to this Nagy performance. 
My 6 year old daughter said to me when walking back to the car “Daddy, why was everyone not happy with the number 4”. 
I said, “well, he didn’t play very well, but he’s been injured for a while so maybe he’s not back up to speed with the game”. 
She said “maybe his brain isn’t working”. 
I said “yes, could be, he’s been out for a while so maybe he wasn’t as alert as he should be”. 
She said “Well, my teacher says I’m clever, so maybe he could borrow one of my brains. If his brain isn’t working very well he could have one of mine, because I have 2”. 
 

Out of the mouths of babes, as they say. Nagy’s brain wasn’t working! 
In a funny way, I couldn’t agree more. 

Which of his brains isn’t working though! ???

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think there is a balance SK. How much does the head-coach let the Sports Science guys drive player availability?  You can bet your bottom dollar you’ll get:

LJ: do you reckon you can give it a go today?

Player A:  yeah, might not last but better to start and see

 

You've more than touched on another important factor in all this mate. - how good is the coach in talking to each player individually ? Alex Ferguson presumably frightened a player into performing. This may still apply at the lower league levels but I suspect it is very much a thing of the past at the higher levels. Kloop and Gaurdiola must be masters of player psychology and be also great at handling players of different nationalities.

GJ famously said "you can't motivate a player who doesn't want to be motivated" That's true in the most obvious sense but it seems stupid if the Club have spent a massive sum on that player and then find all that out too late that we can't get through to him and help him be happy being here? We spent all that time and money rehabilitating Milan Djuric. He's really gratefull to Steve Allen and then he ****s off. Why?

We spend millions on players and have wasted millions on foreign players that "don't fit in" This seems so crude and wasteful in the modern age. How much would it cost to employ staff who are multi-lingual sports pyschologists/councillors. When you hear rumours that a particular player is homesick/unhappy one wonders how much appropriate professional help they are given?

 

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45 minutes ago, Harry said:

So do you think he had a good game? Do you think he could’ve done a helluva lot better. Or are you just gonna say my analysis is shit? 
Thoroughly good contribution squire 

I’m with you Harry - For all the stats in the world - I watched him quite closely Saturday and he was very poor IMHO

if you’d try and convince somebody he was an International they’d think you were taking the p

Im not sure what he is , player wise tbh - He was seen as a replacement for Pack and appears to be the starting point in our possession but Pack , to be fair outshines him completely in that particular role 

Weak, physically limited passing range , no real contribution towards a performance at all

Doesnt look as if he wants to be here , looks disillusioned , and plays that way tbh

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8 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

You've more than touched on another important factor in all this mate. - how good is the coach in talking to each player individually ? Alex Ferguson presumably frightened a player into performing. This may still apply at the lower league levels but I suspect it is very much a thing of the past at the higher levels. Kloop and Gaurdiola must be masters of player psychology and be also great at handling players of different nationalities.

GJ famously said "you can't motivate a player who doesn't want to be motivated" That's true but it seems stupid if the Club have spent a massive sum on that player and then find all that out too late?

We spend millions on players and have wasted millions on foreign players that "don't fit in" This seems so crude and wasteful in the modern age. How much would it cost to employ staff who are multi-lingual sports pyschologists/councillors. When you hear rumours that a particular player is homesick/unhappy one wonders how much appropriate professional help they are given?

 

I think our DNA requirements may have a role here

I think it’s great we don’t get many ********* as players at the Club and they consistently seem a decent set of lads

You don’t have to be an ar********e to be a winner but a good team is normally a blend of characters and attributes and generally nice people , sadly , are not necessarily winners , especially in professional sport

Its interesting , and a difficult dilemna / balance 

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15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m with you Harry - For all the stats in the world - I watched him quite closely Saturday and he was very poor IMHO

if you’d try and convince somebody he was an International they’d think you were taking the p

Im not sure what he is , player wise tbh - He was seen as a replacement for Pack and appears to be the starting point in our possession but Pack , to be fair outshines him completely in that particular role 

Weak, physically limited passing range , no real contribution towards a performance at all

Doesnt look as if he wants to be here , looks disillusioned , and plays that way tbh

Good to see you are back BBSB. You add a lot to this forum.

He needs to get in the gym, bulk up and strengthen, that’s for sure.

Bobbie Read was pushed around a lot in his younger days until he hit the gym. He muscled/bulked up a lot to help his game and compete against some of the brick shithouse defenders in the Championship. 

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1 minute ago, GasDestroyer said:

Good to see you are back BBSB. You add a lot to this forum.

He needs to get in the gym, bulk up and strengthen, that’s for sure.

Bobbie Read was pushed around a lot in his younger days until he hit the gym. He muscled/bulked up a lot to help his game and compete against some of the brick shithouse defenders in the Championship. 

Ta mate , not sure how long for , and ST is a spin of a coin decision 

 

As for Nagy He’s like a few of our players , would look much better in a dominant side

 

But - He’s also another weak physical player recruited , and yet we have the astonishing observations on at least two occasions by LJ this season that ‘We lack physicality’

No shit Sherlock ..........And by the way .......ITS YOUR F******G Squad


Im fed up with hearing , after 4 years what we lack tbh 

 

See ......you’ve set me off now ......? ?

 

On a serious note mate (And this will go down well) I sat and watched the latter stages of Saturday and thought , actually , West Brom , and Leeds might have done us a favour , aside from the individual errors it showed how far off we actually are at the present time - I don’t think West Brom are a great Championship side , a bit more ‘pragmatic’ under Bilic , and I think they will struggle massively without good recruitment if they go up, ......where does that leave us 

Fair play we’ve ground out some very good away points this season , but we arn’t a good side , and if somehow we limped into the POS and if by some miracle stumbled through them , even with signings IMHO we would get absolutely obliterated in the Prem at the moment , it would be humiliating 

 

And trips to Aldershot in Freight Rover still seem like the best ! ??

 

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On 22/02/2020 at 18:44, JonDolman said:

I wouldn't!

Korey better, Henriksen looks an upgrade too, though early days.

Massengo will certainly be better in the future and okay something is not right with Nagy. I don't think it's simply his injury.

Add to that Morrell and Walsh coming back in the summer. Was definitely right to get 4 million for Pack.

We'll get that promise coached out of him soon enough.

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45 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m with you Harry - For all the stats in the world - I watched him quite closely Saturday and he was very poor IMHO

if you’d try and convince somebody he was an International they’d think you were taking the p

Im not sure what he is , player wise tbh - He was seen as a replacement for Pack and appears to be the starting point in our possession but Pack , to be fair outshines him completely in that particular role 

Weak, physically limited passing range , no real contribution towards a performance at all

Doesnt look as if he wants to be here , looks disillusioned , and plays that way tbh

He is what he said he was in his interview when he joined. 
He himself said he was energetic, would run all day long, said it was something genetic within him that gives him lots of energy, but he needed to learn to not run too much as he often loses shape and discipline because he’s so energetic and full of running. 
 

As I’ve said before, to summarise that - he’s a runner. 
Our squad is loaded with runners. Guys who will run all day for the cause but have a lack of quality. COD, Weimann, Watkins, Hunt, now Nagy. 
 

He’s an energetic midfielder, who self-confesses needs to learn more position discipline. 

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