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Top Robin

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Surely Lee, Steve Lansdown, the rest of the board and us fans whether in the in or out camp must be starting to get frustrated and concerned that Lee had been given time and money to create his own team and its just not happening.

I think all the above parties must have been excited about the new signings and really thought that things would improve but alas our excitement and expectation has soon gone flat.

I am at a total loss as to what Lee can do over and above what he has already done to turn things around. 

Regarding Lansdowns backing of Lee, on a personal level I am sure he would support him through the poorest of times and indeed he has. But when it comes to Lee spending millions of Steve's money and getting no return, I think that puts a different perspective on it and I wonder how long it can go on.

Lets be honest, the team does not look like improving any time soon.

 

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6 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Surely Lee, Steve Lansdown, the rest of the board and us fans whether in the in or out camp must be starting to get frustrated and concerned that Lee had been given time and money to create his own team and its just not happening.

I think all the above parties must have been excited about the new signings and really thought that things would improve but alas our excitement and expectation has soon gone flat.

I am at a total loss as to what Lee can do over and above what he has already done to turn things around. 

Regarding Lansdowns backing of Lee, on a personal level I am sure he would support him through the poorest of times and indeed he has. But when it comes to Lee spending millions of Steve's money and getting no return, I think that puts a different perspective on it and I wonder how long it can go on.

Lets be honest, the team does not look like improving any time soon.

 

As a fan ....not really. Johnson has proved the last 2 years he has hit a ceiling. Players come, player go....but our style of football, our mentality...has not changed. If anything it has slowly regressed 

I didn't believe for one second that signing these players would mean things would all fall in to place for LJ 

He and the coaches are the reason we are not going to make top 6. No amount of new players will ever change that 

7 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

How can you tell of interest that the team doesn't look like improving? 

Wouldn't you think with a new spine signed in January that the more they play and train together that they will improve?

As posted above, no....because this head coach is not good enough 

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6 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Surely Lee, Steve Lansdown, the rest of the board and us fans whether in the in or out camp must be starting to get frustrated and concerned that Lee had been given time and money to create his own team and its just not happening.

I think all the above parties must have been excited about the new signings and really thought that things would improve but alas our excitement and expectation has soon gone flat.

I am at a total loss as to what Lee can do over and above what he has already done to turn things around. 

Regarding Lansdowns backing of Lee, on a personal level I am sure he would support him through the poorest of times and indeed he has. But when it comes to Lee spending millions of Steve's money and getting no return, I think that puts a different perspective on it and I wonder how long it can go on.

Lets be honest, the team does not look like improving any time soon.

 

We all know LJ is going nowhere and taking us nowhere. The only thing i can see apart from bringing in quality players (Obviously) is to bring in a whole new back room team of  Championship/Premier league quality coaches who would be able to get the best out of the talented squad we have, doing this may improve things.

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8 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

How can you tell of interest that the team doesn't look like improving? 

Wouldn't you think with a new spine signed in January that the more they play and train together that they will improve?

Take away the metric of points.

Objectively look at the team as three elements of defence, attack and set pieces then decide what your standard is.

What has improved?

I find Bristol City boring that is a perception.  That the team does not pass the ball well isn't. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

 

As posted above, no....because this head coach is not good enough 

In your opinion... Is this based on us losing to the top two in the league? Have you seen his coaching? 

Found yesterday frustrating because of the sloppy mistakes made rather than endeavour and organisation. 

I see a lot of players improve so I'm not sure he can't coach. You can see we are a different level to how we have been for years... the biggest worry for me in terms of coaching is defending together. It seems sometimes that we are too easily caught out... but loads of progress considering the players turnaround..

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3 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

In your opinion... Is this based on us losing to the top two in the league? Have you seen his coaching? 

Found yesterday frustrating because of the sloppy mistakes made rather than endeavour and organisation. 

I see a lot of players improve so I'm not sure he can't coach. You can see we are a different level to how we have been for years... the biggest worry for me in terms of coaching is defending together. It seems sometimes that we are too easily caught out... but loads of progress considering the players turnaround..

All fans can see Lee Johnsons coaching. A team is a reflection of coaching. That is what coaching is constant development and preparation of individuals for the football the team plays. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

As a fan ....not really. Johnson has proved the last 2 years he has hit a ceiling. Players come, player go....but our style of football, our mentality...has not changed. If anything it has slowly regressed 

I didn't believe for one second that signing these players would mean things would all fall in to place for LJ 

He and the coaches are the reason we are not going to make top 6. No amount of new players will ever change that 

As posted above, no....because this head coach is not good enough 

Totally agree.

With the on-going investment on and off the pitch you would expect the HC at any other club to be working under a set of expectations that would only the top 6 is acceptable. I don’t believe that is the case here, unless we end up mid-table LJ and MA will be here next season with a good number of new players. The squad is not the problem it’s the coaches - all 3 of them. 

We had £12m worth of CB’s on the bench yesterday plus a £4m creative midfielder. We have a young star in the making who could not even make the bench. The squad and it’s depth is not the issue.

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26 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Surely Lee, Steve Lansdown, the rest of the board and us fans whether in the in or out camp must be starting to get frustrated and concerned that Lee had been given time and money to create his own team and its just not happening.

I think all the above parties must have been excited about the new signings and really thought that things would improve but alas our excitement and expectation has soon gone flat.

I am at a total loss as to what Lee can do over and above what he has already done to turn things around. 

Regarding Lansdowns backing of Lee, on a personal level I am sure he would support him through the poorest of times and indeed he has. But when it comes to Lee spending millions of Steve's money and getting no return, I think that puts a different perspective on it and I wonder how long it can go on.

Lets be honest, the team does not look like improving any time soon.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if it was all Steve's money but the tens of millions spent on players has been mainly financed by players bought and nurtured by previous managers and coaches, and the millions which we as fans are about to part with on season tickets and over priced match day merchandise, beverages and hospitality.

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16 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

In your opinion... Is this based on us losing to the top two in the league? Have you seen his coaching? 

Found yesterday frustrating because of the sloppy mistakes made rather than endeavour and organisation. 

I see a lot of players improve so I'm not sure he can't coach. You can see we are a different level to how we have been for years... the biggest worry for me in terms of coaching is defending together. It seems sometimes that we are too easily caught out... but loads of progress considering the players turnaround..

It's no secret I have questioned Johnson from day dot.

My opinion is based on the fact this will be the third season in a row where we will fall short of the playoffs. The third season in a row where we will fall short for the exact same reasons. 

Once is unlucky, twice is concerning....three times says to me he just doesn't have it in his locker to turn us into a top 6 team over a 46 game season 

 

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38 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

How can you tell of interest that the team doesn't look like improving? 

Wouldn't you think with a new spine signed in January that the more they play and train together that they will improve?

Er...because I have watched them over the whole season

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31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

All fans can see Lee Johnsons coaching. A team is a reflection of coaching. That is what coaching is constant development and preparation of individuals for the football the team plays. 

 

I can see Lee Johnson's coaching and I can say that he is the only Bristol City coach during my time (40yrs) where players have improved.  Some of the other coaches (Cotts springs to mind) have improved the team but none have improved multiple individual players like Johnson.

Wouldn't you agree?

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1 minute ago, Chivs said:

I can see Lee Johnson's coaching and I can say that he is the only Bristol City coach during my time (40yrs) where players have improved.  Some of the other coaches (Cotts springs to mind) have improved the team but none have improved multiple individual players like Johnson.

Wouldn't you agree?

Some players may have improved but also some have regressed and the team as a whole has now definitely hit the buffers. 

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7 minutes ago, Chivs said:

I can see Lee Johnson's coaching and I can say that he is the only Bristol City coach during my time (40yrs) where players have improved.  Some of the other coaches (Cotts springs to mind) have improved the team but none have improved multiple individual players like Johnson.

Wouldn't you agree?

I imagine over several seasons he probably also has the worst home wins record.

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The only party that isn’t happy at this time are the fans. 
 

Things are going swimmingly for both Lansdown and Johnson. They have a nice cosy understanding and Johnson is the pet project. I’ve mentioned it on other threads but Johnson has the safest job in football. A bit of spin and bluff to bat most people off and he’s golden. 
 

The squad looks totally devoid of any ideas and confidence. Wells is a pointless singing as we aren’t playing him to his strengths. Expecting him to come back into midfield to get the ball and then outmuscle 3/4 players is clueless. He’s a finisher so he should be playing in the box. We never seem to get the best out of strikers who are performing elsewhere. 
 

Football at the gate is not entertaining, it’s dull and lifeless. However I highly doubt Lansdown or Johnson are even batting an eyelid. 

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32 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

It's no secret I have questioned Johnson from day dot.

My opinion is based on the fact this will be the third season in a row where we will fall short of the playoffs. The third season in a row where we will fall short for the exact same reasons. 

Once is unlucky, twice is concerning....three times says to me he just doesn't have it in his locker to turn us into a top 6 team over a 46 game season 

 

The way I think... so when we got promoted the first thing was survival. Then progression. Teams like derby, sheff weds, forest were almost the benchmark. Strong championship sides that were competing at the right end of the table. 

Now we have done that and realise that getting up to the next stage takes considerable investment and stronger calibre throughout. This can be done by improving what we have by coaching or replacing.  Those we have had young that improved have been sold... Reid Bryan and some of the others arent quite consistent enough. E.g. Moore, semenyo and the likes so are developing elsewhere while we assess them. 

It's a fine balance though because we are in the middle so investing in players like wells kalas etc that try and improve is for now. So we arent good enough yet all round... have potential in young players... and are trying to buy the right players to fill these ains. It ain't easy but also not as simple as not good enough coaching imo

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

In before some bore mentions net spend. 

And if anyone does here’s the full on facts:

  • Running the football club costs SL £25m per annum (that’s £25m overspend)
  • the football club offset that by selling players 
  • if we don’t buy or sell anyone we lose £25m

If we overlay FFP (for simplicity let’s take the £39m allowed over 3 years as a single year £13m allowable loss), then:

  • we can probably offset £3m of that £25m for FFP exception
  • minus the £13m

means ultimately we have to sell (£25m minus £3m minus £13m) £9m of players each season to stay within FFP.  That’s before we think about buying anyone.

That £9m is an indirect result of having a large wage bill and high amortisation of transfer fees.  Decrease that, you decrease the amount you need to sell.

The above is based on 2019 accounts.  I suspect costs have gone up, but we prepared when we sold Webster....although we spent a fair bit of too, hence Brownhill went too.

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16 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

The only party that isn’t happy at this time are the fans. 
 

Things are going swimmingly for both Lansdown and Johnson. They have a nice cosy understanding and Johnson is the pet project. I’ve mentioned it on other threads but Johnson has the safest job in football. A bit of spin and bluff to bat most people off and he’s golden. 
 

The squad looks totally devoid of any ideas and confidence. Wells is a pointless singing as we aren’t playing him to his strengths. Expecting him to come back into midfield to get the ball and then outmuscle 3/4 players is clueless. He’s a finisher so he should be playing in the box. We never seem to get the best out of strikers who are performing elsewhere. 
 

Football at the gate is not entertaining, it’s dull and lifeless. However I highly doubt Lansdown or Johnson are even batting an eyelid. 

Perfectly put, I very much doubt that LJs position has even been mentioned at board level. The only way he would  possibly be sacked is a long battle against relegation and even then I think he would survive that if we were to stay up, it would take relegation for him to get sacked. It's too cosy at Ashton Gate and you are right about the safest job in football I think that has already been proven. LJ would not have survived his winless runs at any other club in the championship. Also agree about Wells, his goals will more than likely dry up here, he will probably be on the bench soon !!

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22 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

My worry would be if an when the golden boy leaves the next manager has to ship out a load of mediocre players just like cotts had to when daddy left.

They were mainly shipped out before he got here. And we'd already recruited the likes of Flint and Pack by then.

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8 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well it will have to happen again because lansdown wont be happy shelling out 20 grand a week for forty odd players.

I don't think most of them are on anything like that, but you're right in that we make too many signing of players that seemingly will never be seen anywhere near the first team. I don't mind us having a loan development squad, provided players come through and challenge for the first team at some point. We could probably lose 10 players with no impact to the club. We certainly need smarter recruitment.

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2 hours ago, Chivs said:

I can see Lee Johnson's coaching and I can say that he is the only Bristol City coach during my time (40yrs) where players have improved.  Some of the other coaches (Cotts springs to mind) have improved the team but none have improved multiple individual players like Johnson.

Wouldn't you agree?

No. 

 

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3 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I don't think most of them are on anything like that, but you're right in that we make too many signing of players that seemingly will never be seen anywhere near the first team. I don't mind us having a loan development squad, provided players come through and challenge for the first team at some point. We could probably lose 10 players with no impact to the club. We certainly need smarter recruitment.

Of the players already at the club when Cotts arrived....Flint and Williams improved.  Bryan improved.  Pack improved.

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23 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Thanks for your considered reply @Cowshed.  At least on this occasion, I can understand your post.

It was a closed question.

If you had asked for examples the best in my time watching BCFC - Terry Cooper and how he positively affected Keith Curles career. That was close to five loaves and two fishes. 

Steve Cotterill without question helped players progress. 

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