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Who is the Pat Lam of football?


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4 minutes ago, barrington said:

Realisitcally. if Steve Lansdown were to go for the football equivalent of Lam one day, who would it be? 

In a football context you are talking about one of the top 10 coaches in the world and certainly a strong argument to being the best coach in the Prem so an absolute non starter.

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2 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Not Lee Johnson then ?

I'm pretty sure he has said he compares notes with Pat.

Totally different though isn't it. Bristol can afford the very best in rugby circles and that has delivered what SL craves which is a place at a top table of English, and soon hopefully European sport.There is a "project" afoot incidentally, but it is underpinned by a playing and social philosophy very much coming from Lam.

In football terms I am sure a clever man like SL can justify spending more on a very good coach such as Bilic, even if that means the playing budget is shaved by £1m per annum. Fact is though, he won't do that. He wouldn't dare interfere on rugby matters once Pat Lam came on board and its interesting that his mate Chris Booy is far less vocal and visible than he was during the early days of Lam's tenure. SL thinks he knows a thing or two about football though based on his years of involvement so will continue to show a hands on interest, even if that isn't often face to face. That's why he likes things as they are, and wouldn't countenance someone with status and an ego based upon acheivement in my opinion.

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12 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

We're not the Bristol Rugby club of football though - that's Everton (when they get a new ground). In rugby terms, we - City - are Coventry RFC, or maybe London Welsh.

Not a bad comparison with Everton. Big club massive fanbase living (currently) on past glories.Bristol is a little ahead though in where they currently sit.

As for City, Coventry was one of the great clubs, every bit as good as Leicester Northampton and Bristol and miles ahead of the rest. Hard to think of a comparable for us to be honest, but we wouldn't likely be a draw for the football equivalent of Pat Lam thats for sure.

 

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Pat Lam is right up there with the very best - he can attract the worlds best and the recent stats on Twitter with the ? top of 5 out of 9 or 10 key stats for the season speaks volumes as it is the stats for passes, bursts etc.

Basically exciting and productive rugby getting better every year so Klopp or Guardiola is where I put him as equivalent 

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2 hours ago, Natchfever said:

In a football context you are talking about one of the top 10 coaches in the world and certainly a strong argument to being the best coach in the Prem so an absolute non starter.

I have no idea what the Pat Lam of football means. Pat Lam is a good rugby coach, but by what criteria could he be thought of in the world's top 10. 

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3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Football is a far bigger sport so in real terms it would be like us getting Ancelotti or Benitez.

It's an uneven comparison because of the size of the sport, I suppose if you were to make a scaled down comparison perhaps it would be a bit like us getting Bielsa instead of Leeds in terms of profile. 

Wolves manager a good example because Pat signed when Bristol was in the second tier When he came world class players started to turn up who would not have been interested in Andy Robinson. That is the value of a higher regarded Coach in addition to superior ability on the training pitch. 

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2 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I have no idea what the Pat Lam of football means. Pat Lam is a good rugby coach, but by what criteria could he be thought of in the world's top 10. 

A few years  ago, before coming to Bristol he won the Pro 12 (basically the Irish, Scottish and Welsh league) with Connacht. Connacht are seen as the backwater of irish rugby, perennial underachievers, and so this was a ridiculous success. Think of it as like Leicester winning the prem, like @Northern Red said above. 
 

That’s just the tip of it though, his coaching methods, the harmony his squads have, the rugby his sides play, means that he is widely respected as one of the best head coaches in the world. He’s managed the barbarians (a club side who chuck together some of the worlds best players for a week of getting drunk and taking on a tier one nation...), which is the sort of accolade only the best get given. He’s been linked to the England job recently and will probably be again. 
 

I’d put him in the top 5 coaches in the world currently, and that’s probably not being too generous

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11 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

A few years  ago, before coming to Bristol he won the Pro 12 (basically the Irish, Scottish and Welsh league) with Connacht. Connacht are seen as the backwater of irish rugby, perennial underachievers, and so this was a ridiculous success. Think of it as like Leicester winning the prem, like @Northern Red said above. 
 

That’s just the tip of it though, his coaching methods, the harmony his squads have, the rugby his sides play, means that he is widely respected as one of the best head coaches in the world. He’s managed the barbarians (a club side who chuck together some of the worlds best players for a week of getting drunk and taking on a tier one nation...), which is the sort of accolade only the best get given. He’s been linked to the England job recently and will probably be again. 
 

I’d put him in the top 5 coaches in the world currently, and that’s probably not being too generous

This.

Tier One nation being England (OK not full strength) scoring over 60 points in a win at HQ.

I can definitely see him linked with all the home nations jobs but particularly England and Ireland.

As a player he appeared in 3 world cups, won the Premiership and European cup, so can look a top player in the eye and say "I know how it is".

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4 hours ago, Natchfever said:

I'm pretty sure he has said he compares notes with Pat.

Totally different though isn't it. Bristol can afford the very best in rugby circles and that has delivered what SL craves which is a place at a top table of English, and soon hopefully European sport.There is a "project" afoot incidentally, but it is underpinned by a playing and social philosophy very much coming from Lam.

In football terms I am sure a clever man like SL can justify spending more on a very good coach such as Bilic, even if that means the playing budget is shaved by £1m per annum. Fact is though, he won't do that. He wouldn't dare interfere on rugby matters once Pat Lam came on board and its interesting that his mate Chris Booy is far less vocal and visible than he was during the early days of Lam's tenure. SL thinks he knows a thing or two about football though based on his years of involvement so will continue to show a hands on interest, even if that isn't often face to face. That's why he likes things as they are, and wouldn't countenance someone with status and an ego based upon acheivement in my opinion.

Good post. But the point about Lam is he is starting to get a couple top players in but what he has done is work with players already at the club and in the youth set up, signed a number of players from the league below and improved them all to a standard where they can compete at the top level. He has developed team spirit and an Identity which seems to bring the best out of everyone. All things that LJ has struggled to do. Compare notes Johnson should attend classes with Pat Lam.

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9 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Good post. But the point about Lam is he is starting to get a couple top players in but what he has done is work with players already at the club and in the youth set up, signed a number of players from the league below and improved them all to a standard where they can compete at the top level. He has developed team spirit and an Identity which seems to bring the best out of everyone. All things that LJ has struggled to do. Compare notes Johnson should attend classes with Pat Lam.

100% mate. I'm sure that LJ should have benefitted rather more from any conversation. Bristol is very lucky to have Pat Lam but he can achieve big things here. 

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At Championship level- Bilic or even more so Bielsa might be an equivalent for us of getting Lam?

The latter is highly renowned by even top managers but seems to have a certain erratic streak- and it's that erratic streak which is the reason IMO that he has not got bigger jobs. Not that Argentina, Marseille and Athletic Bilbao pre Leeds is a small range! Quitting Lazio after two days is a prime example and will have been noted and remembered significantly by top brass in a fair few places- if he'd made a go of that I suspect he'd be managing higher than Leeds.

Pretty sure he quit Marseille after one game of his second season too...definitely will have done him few favours.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

At Championship level- Bilic or even more so Bielsa might be an equivalent for us of getting Lam?

The latter is highly renowned by even top managers but seems to have a certain erratic streak- and it's that erratic streak which is the reason IMO that he has not got bigger jobs. Not that Argentina, Marseille and Athletic Bilbao pre Leeds is a small range! Quitting Lazio after two days is a prime example and will have been noted and remembered significantly by top brass in a fair few places- if he'd made a go of that I suspect he'd be managing higher than Leeds.

Pretty sure he quit Marseille after one game of his second season too...definitely will have done him few favours.

I think if a top coach broadly agreed with our so called project and had assurances over how that is delivered up front then diverting some of the playing budget to the coaching cost makes sense  Apart from the obvious superiority in terms of game management such a coach would have far better connections than any implied currently. This could lead to better loanees and attract superior players - money permitting of course. Pat Lam is an attractive proposition for many players and whilst not directly comparable of course I wonder if a better regarded coach might be worth the money if they bought in to the owners vision and were then allowed to get on with it. 

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15 hours ago, JBFC II said:

That’s just the tip of it though, his coaching methods, the harmony his squads have, the rugby his sides play, means that he is widely respected as one of the best head coaches in the world

One thing that Pat is very clear on it's clarity. That is something that I think the football club lacks from LJ. 

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36 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

One thing that Pat is very clear on it's clarity. That is something that I think the football club lacks from LJ. 

To be fair i'm not sure if I can think of any football coach with such clarity.

Spells last season when Bristol got on the wrong end of results, but every time Pay Lam knew what the issue was and put it right even with on paper the weakest squad in the league, confounding the experts who had us down for relegation.

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18 hours ago, JBFC II said:

A few years  ago, before coming to Bristol he won the Pro 12 (basically the Irish, Scottish and Welsh league) with Connacht. Connacht are seen as the backwater of irish rugby, perennial underachievers, and so this was a ridiculous success. Think of it as like Leicester winning the prem, like @Northern Red said above. 
 

That’s just the tip of it though, his coaching methods, the harmony his squads have, the rugby his sides play, means that he is widely respected as one of the best head coaches in the world. He’s managed the barbarians (a club side who chuck together some of the worlds best players for a week of getting drunk and taking on a tier one nation...), which is the sort of accolade only the best get given. He’s been linked to the England job recently and will probably be again. 
 

I’d put him in the top 5 coaches in the world currently, and that’s probably not being too generous

A very good summary @JBFC II

I know nothing at all about the training methods and match instructions dished out by Lam or Johnston. However, as an ST holder for both, I can see the differences between the way the two sides play.

Bristol tactics, at home at least, are to hit the opposition as early as possible. Players are clearly disciplined in the tactics but also appear to be given licence to "try things that are out of the ordinary" that are done to create openings in all places on the pitch. Many times it doesn't come off but when it does, the results are beneficial - be it breaking out of defence by running the ball instead of kicking or scoring tries from unexpected positions. Several who sit near me believe that this "licence" to experiment is encouraged by Lam. He may give players hell in the changing room but he has never once publicly chastised any player for mistakes on the pitch!

Overall, Bristol Bears are trying to play attractive, attacking rugby and even though they have blown a couple of home wins by conceding late, the majority of fans are pleased with what they see.

Conversely, City players appear to be afraid of doing anything that could misfire. So we get sideways and backward passing just to keep the ball. We have a very poor statistic of shots on target, especially in home games. LJ has often named individuals who have made errors, in his interviews. 

I know the two codes are totally different but man management is not. So I would be pleased if we had a Head Coach who will try to play with more flair and who keeps his discipline inside the dressing room.

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Reading some of the posts that was what I was thinking when posting the question .... developing neglected players from the league below, creating a clear identity & culture for players to express themselves yet stay within the plan. What Pat achieved with Connacht was outstanding, but he has literally installed the same principles at Bristol... it's exactly what SL asked him to do (& I think the reason Pat decided to join aside from the money if I remember reading that).... it's crystal clear what the strategy is and everyone buys into it. I guess Ranieri at Leicester is the recent football equivalent, but perhaps there is someone in a league below or abroad that is doing similar things building that reputation up.... obviously it's a different structure to compare against but as the post above say man management isn't.... I think it's exactly what's needed when the time comes to refresh things and SL would hopefully be thinking this based on the Bears success. 

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