Jump to content
IGNORED

Academy/Development Progression - Whats Happened to the Pathway?


Fuber

Recommended Posts

As per title, to distract from the spill-out of tonights result. This is more a question with regards to the full management setup of AG as is current - what is happening to our Youth and Development pathway?

We used to talk about, two years ago, how we had a clear pathway between the likes of Reid, Bryan, Kelly; we developed Brownhill signing him from Preston - we gave him game time. We sold Bryan on the basis this created a pathway for Kelly, and loaned in DaSilva to compete.

So whats happening with all the players we should be developing? Brentford make profits on the younger players by training them up, showing and giving them the responsibility to develop as players by can be, by giving them the best system and setup to succeed and so they can mature and the entire environment to succeed; they only loan them out to give them context and an experience elsewhere for a year if it all, or they stick them straight in (Mepham, Gray, Mbeumo, DaSliva, among others) . Consistent selections, good basic tactics with a fluid style. Their average squad age this season is well below our own this season, I believe 24 to our 27.

By comparison in the last almost two Seasons, barring Kelly, why have we not given players the opportunity, and trust to develop here? - I feel like a side effect of the inconsistent team selections and signings this year is that its moved players from our Academy away from the first team to the extent that they have ultimately been wasted. If LJ is a good enough coach a handful would have been more merited staying and being developed for this season rather than being loaned out, to teams with completely differing setups. Added to that O'Leary (who LJ was forced to trust, and then loaned), and Kelly have been the only players, during his tenure coming from the academy he has seen first to 'trust' in respect to first team football (Semenyo doesn't count as the lad barely played even a full game and could never seem to settle and get confident).

The big conundrum for Ashton, through LJ, to the coaching staff is, and the club as whole is, what happens this coming summer? - I'm being pre-emptive and assuming we are not getting promoted this year with the standard of football displayed insofar, a what-if scenario.

 - We have a good, and by now, very expensive squad (for us, being non-parachute).

 - We have a good, respected academy, with multiple players also having been signed to be developed progressing well elsewhere. O'Leary, Moore, Szmodics, Walsh, Morrell, specifically putting themselves into contention for next season as it stands, with other likely to be released, and Morton, Semenyo, and Pring likely to go out on loan again imo. The only younger players that appear to have been given a chance this season are DaSilva and Eliasson.

Who goes, who stays? I think irrespective of LJ being the coach next season, this is going to be a huge summer. I can see FFP beginning to bite again depending on how much wage expenditure has rose again, even with the Brownhill sale, if we do spend, it will still have to be balanced by whom we sell imho. So where is the pathway, the most efficient and cost-effective way to improve, gone? - The only way I can see us clearing a pathway for the aforementioned players are loans to end, Maenpaa, Korey, Williams, Palmer/Pato to leave, thereby meaning O'Leary, Morrell, Moore, and Szmodics come in?

Im no fan of LJ, but the big issue with sacking him before the end of the season is that any new manager - due to LJ not trusting the younger players and overall lack of a playstyle - would not be able to judge the squad as a whole and decide what is needed before the next preseason, when the army of loan players we have, returns. Ashton and Werhun, along with Tinnion could therefore be pivotal to (if) any managerial changes if they should occur.

Who stays, who gets cut, who do we release, who do we renew terms with? - Wherein lies the most potential, is the question I think we need to keep asking oursleves if we're serious about this season on season progression model - Keeping in mind the overarching methodology and philosophy we espouse?

As I cannot support us going gung-ho next season with how much LJ has been backed already with this season in comparison to the standard of football we've seen especially at home, if LJ has a plan, its not apparent, and I would want to see solid on pitch evidence there is one before the end of the season before he is given another pence in transfer budget. And if LJ were to not be here start of next season, which Managers and or Coaches should we possibly have lined up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

We panicked and gambled on signing older players 

We've certainly undone the progression of a number of players this season which sadly may impact on the future of our club more than we'd like 

That's my general feeling and reason for my half-rant.

Think we need a reset, we may have to incredibly harsh on certain individuals come summer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pressure of trying to reach the play offs, fans themselves have practically demanded we go for it in signing players in transfer windows, if the remit was just to finish mid table, maybe top 10 then we'd have seen a lot more of the players we have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, hodge said:

Pressure of trying to reach the play offs, fans themselves have practically demanded we go for it in signing players in transfer windows, if the remit was just to finish mid table, maybe top 10 then we'd have seen a lot more of the players we have.

Bit of truth in that but plenty were calling for Morrell, Walsh recalls and I don’t remember anyone saying get shot of Moore to give a Leicester youngster some game time. 
And.... top 10 looks the likely outcome. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pathway? 

Well, this diminutive traveller type drove his caravan in from Newmarket and persuaded an elderly but wealthy gent that he should rip it up and replace it with the world's most expensive 'crazy paving'. Lots of small, misshapen and recycled ballast which although set in the traveller's proprietary render crumbles under the slightest pressure and presents so many trip hazards falling down is unavoidable.

Once finished with ripping-off the wealthy gent the traveller will ride into the sunset never to be seen again, leaving inaccessible to the gent's numerous visitors the magnificent palace he'd built for himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, phantom said:

We panicked and gambled on signing older players 

We've certainly undone the progression of a number of players this season which sadly may impact on the future of our club more than we'd like 

Been thinking about next season for a while.  Haven’t dismissed pkay-offs, but looking less likely every game.  Need a back to basics summer.  Will expand upon this over coming weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hodge said:

Pressure of trying to reach the play offs, fans themselves have practically demanded we go for it in signing players in transfer windows, if the remit was just to finish mid table, maybe top 10 then we'd have seen a lot more of the players we have.

That’s it

its the fans fault

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
35 minutes ago, hodge said:

Because I definitely said anyone was at fault for it ?

 

1 hour ago, hodge said:

Pressure of trying to reach the play offs, fans themselves have practically demanded we go for it in signing players in transfer windows, if the remit was just to finish mid table, maybe top 10 then we'd have seen a lot more of the players we have.

With all the stats and analysis we're constantly told goes into a signing I don't believe for one minute any incoming or outgoing is reflected in what our supporters are saying 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have a manager that has no defined style of play or philosophy instead stumbling from one system to the next by necessity and by luck rather than judgement picking one to play.

This means that the selection "tombola" is used consistently, and this has a more profound and detrimental effect on young players than the more expirience pros. 

He brings a player in, and they perform well, so they get another game. Yet the second they don't they are scapegoated and bombed out. Look at Semenyo, called back from his loan, played well at Preston, then gets a start out of position at home against Leeds and is poor, and then gets binned off never to be seen again except for a minute or 2 here and there, and a guy who was gash and leaving gets brought on instead of him in Rodri, and shockingly his confidence is shot to shit. 

But the expirienced pros get a free pass, when did LJ call out Brownhill for being ttosl shit for the last few months before leaving? Taylor Moore contributes 50/50 with JD to concede a goal at Charlton and gets publicly called out by his manager. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Fuber said:

As per title, to distract from the spill-out of tonights result. This is more a question with regards to the full management setup of AG as is current - what is happening to our Youth and Development pathway?

We used to talk about, two years ago, how we had a clear pathway between the likes of Reid, Bryan, Kelly; we developed Brownhill signing him from Preston - we gave him game time. We sold Bryan on the basis this created a pathway for Kelly, and loaned in DaSilva to compete.

So whats happening with all the players we should be developing? Brentford make profits on the younger players by training them up, showing and giving them the responsibility to develop as players by can be, by giving them the best system and setup to succeed and so they can mature and the entire environment to succeed; they only loan them out to give them context and an experience elsewhere for a year if it all, or they stick them straight in (Mepham, Gray, Mbeumo, DaSliva, among others) . Consistent selections, good basic tactics with a fluid style. Their average squad age this season is well below our own this season, I believe 24 to our 27.

By comparison in the last almost two Seasons, barring Kelly, why have we not given players the opportunity, and trust to develop here? - I feel like a side effect of the inconsistent team selections and signings this year is that its moved players from our Academy away from the first team to the extent that they have ultimately been wasted. If LJ is a good enough coach a handful would have been more merited staying and being developed for this season rather than being loaned out, to teams with completely differing setups. Added to that O'Leary (who LJ was forced to trust, and then loaned), and Kelly have been the only players, during his tenure coming from the academy he has seen first to 'trust' in respect to first team football (Semenyo doesn't count as the lad barely played even a full game and could never seem to settle and get confident).

The big conundrum for Ashton, through LJ, to the coaching staff is, and the club as whole is, what happens this coming summer? - I'm being pre-emptive and assuming we are not getting promoted this year with the standard of football displayed insofar, a what-if scenario.

 - We have a good, and by now, very expensive squad (for us, being non-parachute).

 - We have a good, respected academy, with multiple players also having been signed to be developed progressing well elsewhere. O'Leary, Moore, Szmodics, Walsh, Morrell, specifically putting themselves into contention for next season as it stands, with other likely to be released, and Morton, Semenyo, and Pring likely to go out on loan again imo. The only younger players that appear to have been given a chance this season are DaSilva and Eliasson.

Who goes, who stays? I think irrespective of LJ being the coach next season, this is going to be a huge summer. I can see FFP beginning to bite again depending on how much wage expenditure has rose again, even with the Brownhill sale, if we do spend, it will still have to be balanced by whom we sell imho. So where is the pathway, the most efficient and cost-effective way to improve, gone? - The only way I can see us clearing a pathway for the aforementioned players are loans to end, Maenpaa, Korey, Williams, Palmer/Pato to leave, thereby meaning O'Leary, Morrell, Moore, and Szmodics come in?

Im no fan of LJ, but the big issue with sacking him before the end of the season is that any new manager - due to LJ not trusting the younger players and overall lack of a playstyle - would not be able to judge the squad as a whole and decide what is needed before the next preseason, when the army of loan players we have, returns. Ashton and Werhun, along with Tinnion could therefore be pivotal to (if) any managerial changes if they should occur.

Who stays, who gets cut, who do we release, who do we renew terms with? - Wherein lies the most potential, is the question I think we need to keep asking oursleves if we're serious about this season on season progression model - Keeping in mind the overarching methodology and philosophy we espouse?

As I cannot support us going gung-ho next season with how much LJ has been backed already with this season in comparison to the standard of football we've seen especially at home, if LJ has a plan, its not apparent, and I would want to see solid on pitch evidence there is one before the end of the season before he is given another pence in transfer budget. And if LJ were to not be here start of next season, which Managers and or Coaches should we possibly have lined up?

How often do you know hear about this Pathway from Mr Johnson, Bristol Sport/ BCFC?

There are no local players in the XI. Mr Johnson has had years to put in place a playing identity throughout the club which he stated as an aim in 2017. The academy and U teams do not even play the game in the same manner as Mr Johnsons XI. That defies coaching and developmental logic .. There is no obvious developmental model in place.

Under the academy Bristol Sport interfered in the Pathway and shut down the training centres set up by Amy Kington which would have helped feed young players into the academy. Exeter City have a wider reach than Bristol City running development centres in what should be BCFC's region of influence. Exeter are not the only club doing what BCFC are not. 

Back to the XI .. Mr Johnson bases his selection on £ spent, adding new clubs in the bags to the ones that are rusting, and if that does not work he brings in loans. Its a non developmental cycle.

Steve Cotterill gave players more of a chance to develop than Lee Johnson does. There is an irony there because Steve Cotterill lost his job because he didn't/wouldn't follow the bogus strategy Mr Johnson does.

Bristol City under Mr Johnson have been making things up as they go along.

 It gives me no pleasure to have predicted on Otib what has occurred - There is no Pathway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember talk of when we lose a player we should have someone in the academy well versed in our playing style, ready to step in an fill the gap, whether that be injury or selling a player. That seemed to happen with Bryan>Kelly and we made a big deal about the ‘pathway’ at this point. Now ALL of our youth has gone out on loan and we’ve ended up with an ageing Ashley Williams, and giving game time to Leicesters CB. Long term the league loans may be beneficial but questions might well be asked now if it’s cost us on the pitch, and even financially this season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Stoke, Charlton and Huddersfield have used more players than us this season. Far from the "settled squad" Johnson wants.

The bigger the squad numbers the less likely it is that a youngster or academy player will feature.

Johnson has a woeful record with blooding academy players, mainly due to his desire to overcompensate for potential injuries. Or desire to sign free agents (Marinovic, Williams and Rodri) rather than give academy players some game time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No academy, local or developed players starting last night. There was a lot of noise that this was not going to be the case with LJ and It was going to be different, with no more big bloated squads everything was planned!! Commentators last night said Bristol City players were hiding, Bang on LJ has developed a team that hides. What's the point of the academy if this is how its used by LJ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only pathway at the moment is one player will be selected at random to sit on the bench. Player will be told that this is not a reward for progress, but rules dictate that someone has be home grown. Hardly a motivational tool. I don't believe that Lee has any trust in any of the younger players..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...