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Wells signing has made us worse!


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53 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Wells can play a number of roles up top including behind fam if needed. Our problem is a serious lack in midfield . It’s where any good side is at its strongest . Our current midfield must be one of the weakest in the league. 

Agree on Wells but dunno about the midfield. These are good players, some m internationals. In short, I believe they can produce more than they do individuals and indeed as a collective. 

Not with the current setup and mindset however.

Brownhill,  think we may well miss him. At times a goal threat, versatility. Brownhill on the right able to come inside, or or pushed higher in central areas or indeed centrally is the middle of the three in a 4-2-3-1, this could've helped quite a bit. 

No doubt his flexibility and versatility was an asset.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Seeing as I mistakenly disagreed with @JonDolman I'll try disagreeing with your post instead...!

I think we've got loads of quality midfielders. I've seen them play well numerous times. Then I've seen their performances deteriorate, just as I have from other players. There's something else compromising our cohesion...

What do you think it is?  answers on a postcard please!

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10 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Not because of Wells being a bad player. No doubt he is a classy goal scorer at this level.

But before him LJ had briefly found a system and way of winning with Fam up top on his own. Pretty much the same as our great 11 wins and 4 draws in 15 run of games last season.

Okay we did lose to Birmingham playing that too, but one loss in 5, winning 4. Generally it looked solid in most of those games and had us winning. At this point I'm sure many would take that as something to move forward with in a season where we haven't played good football much anyway.

I remember a poster on here ( was it Reddave?) saying Wells is a bad signing. No doubt he got stick for this, but I completely get what he meant - that he won't fit in with what we have.

At previous clubs Wells has mainly been at his best when up top in a 4231 kind of formation as the main striker. With a Chair at QPR or Palmer or Izzy Brown behind him at Huddersfield.

He can hold it up pretty well for his size, he can even win headers. And with his pace, movement, work rate and good technique, he really fits a team with creativity in behind him.

He has that aggression as well, something a short striker up top on their own need against big centre halves. His finishing is superb with either foot. Whether I'm overrating him slightly or not. He is a goal scorer with pace who seems to like the lone role. We don't play him in that role though.

LJ for some reason seems to love playing 2 strikers. And it means Wells is dropping back a lot. I knew LJ would do this rather than bravely dropping Fam.

Instead of balls being played from a short distance behind Wells for him to run onto, in behind the defence, he is having to try and get onto flick ons. Drop back a lot to help our outnumbered midfield etc.

352 did not seem to fix the problem yesterday. Maybe that was down to the poor midfield, who knows. But I'm not liking what I see from LJ in trying to get the best out of him so far.

Another example LJ doesn't actually know what he's doing and like I've already stated previously he can't identify the correct players needed to be consistent in key area's... we sell BR and don't replace his energy, we sell Webster and don't replace his dominance and leadership,  we sell are captain and engine and replace it with a player more rusty than the gates down the mem. I know must will say that's out of his hands but formation and reaction isn't and it's appalling. I'll tell you here and now you will see no reaction at Millwall and will get bullied and out fought with Fulham to follow and I think we all know how that will already end up.... JOHNSON OUT 

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1 hour ago, Roe said:

It was working in the sense that we were scraping decent results against some of the worst teams in the league.

No easy games in this league. Luton beat Brentford last night, Barnsley and Wigan on good form and both currently winning tonight. 

So to win 4 in a row at this level is very hard. But also that system with Fam up top on his own won 11 and drew 4 in 15 game period last season.

A bit similar to those wins in our recent 4 game winning run recently. Not conceding many, but doing enough to win. Relying on Fam up top to be a handful and having a solid looking shape behind him dangerous on the counter attack.

I'm not saying that is how we should play. But it is an effective way, and it gets results.

Better than what we are currently watching. Wide open, not being able to pass the ball.

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4 hours ago, mozo said:

I actually disagree with you on this one. I still think he's exactly what we need but you have to consider his games at City:

QPR - win - came on as sub

Brum - loss - came on as sub

Derby - win - full and scored

(So limited gametime but going okay...)

Leeds - City totally dominated 

WBA - City totally dominated 

Hudds - City Totally dominated 

How much of the above is down to Wells? I think the issue was our negative mindset, chaotic shuffling of line up, and players struggling to execute basics let alone their potential. 

I think this forum is guilty of searching for one defining problem ie a particular player, or formation when in fact, a series of influences have contributed to our demise. 

But how Wells signing makes us worse I don't understand. He just needs to play in a settled side, clear in their roles, motivated, confident, fit, working together on the pitch, responding to their coaching (among others).

Those things are more the problem.

 

 

Agree with this....and in fairness to @JonDolman (who I do like a good old debate with 😂😂😂) I don’t think his OP was trying to do that.

But to me, it has become very clear, we are a mess (of sorts). MIllwall is kill or cure (temporary cure probably more apt).

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2 hours ago, italian dave said:

Another one for the grammar police - I think you mean "City were totally dominated". At least, I hope you do!

I agree with you though that you can't judge any striker on those three games when our midfield was so over-run.

Yeah nobody uses the word 'were' anymore. I mean, we rubbish last night, n't we?

 

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

We didn't play that 4141 with Fam up top in any of those games you say about that we lost, or in Barnsley game drew in.

We threw away a lead against Barnsley - felt at the time like a loss - still does. My point is we didn’t win. And the theory that we rigidly played 4 1  4 1 is also simplistic because Weimann never stayed in the 4 it was far more fluid than your post suggests. Wells would make any team in this division stronger its nonsense to think LJ had found the winning recipe before he joined.

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6 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

We threw away a lead against Barnsley - felt at the time like a loss - still does. My point is we didn’t win. And the theory that we rigidly played 4 1  4 1 is also simplistic because Weimann never stayed in the 4 it was far more fluid than your post suggests. Wells would make any team in this division stronger its nonsense to think LJ had found the winning recipe before he joined.

I'm not sure what relevance the Barnsley game has. 

4141 is a simplistic way of saying how we played. But it was clearly 4141 and not 442.

I'd say winning 4 games in a row is more of a winning recipe than what we are seeing at the moment.

I assume you think we are playing better now than we were in that run of games if you think Wells has improved us.

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Wells got a hat-trick against us (Cardiff) last month. However, he had the outstanding Eberechi Eze to his left, a fantastic player who knows how to pick a pass. He also had Osayi-Samuel to his right, between them, they pulled us all over the pitch and supplied quality ball to Wells.

It's worth noting, however, that prior to that game game against us, Wells had not scored for nine games.

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The thing that’s wrong with the set is that we set up not to lose instead of trying to win,

we sit back to wait for a mistake, it’s what the team has been instructed to do by johnson

we aren’t good enough to do that our strength should be quick passing to the wings and get crosses into the box

we don’t do that because they have been instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake

 

when we get rid of the real problem ie lee Johnson and his negative approach then this team would give anyone a run

johnson is trying to grind out results because he fears for his job in turn throwing everyone from Ashton to kalas under the bus in order to do so

his is a good coach he isn’t a leader and needs to be removed ASAP if this club is to progress

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36 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The thing that’s wrong with the set is that we set up not to lose instead of trying to win,

we sit back to wait for a mistake, it’s what the team has been instructed to do by johnson

we aren’t good enough to do that our strength should be quick passing to the wings and get crosses into the box

we don’t do that because they have been instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake

 

when we get rid of the real problem ie lee Johnson and his negative approach then this team would give anyone a run

johnson is trying to grind out results because he fears for his job in turn throwing everyone from Ashton to kalas under the bus in order to do so

his is a good coach he isn’t a leader and needs to be removed ASAP if this club is to progress

This

2 seasons ago and our run that ended with Man City, compare that to last nights game! We are not a top European team but we gave Man City a game over 2 legs - now the man child couldn’t find a way past Shrewsbury!  Ffs he has to go! Being 7th is still good but does not even begin to reflect the dross he serves up.

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40 minutes ago, dave36 said:

This

2 seasons ago and our run that ended with Man City, compare that to last nights game! We are not a top European team but we gave Man City a game over 2 legs - now the man child couldn’t find a way past Shrewsbury!  Ffs he has to go! Being 7th is still good but does not even begin to reflect the dross he serves up.

Any need?

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

The thing that’s wrong with the set is that we set up not to lose instead of trying to win,

we sit back to wait for a mistake, it’s what the team has been instructed to do by johnson

we aren’t good enough to do that our strength should be quick passing to the wings and get crosses into the box

we don’t do that because they have been instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake

 

when we get rid of the real problem ie lee Johnson and his negative approach then this team would give anyone a run

johnson is trying to grind out results because he fears for his job in turn throwing everyone from Ashton to kalas under the bus in order to do so

his is a good coach he isn’t a leader and needs to be removed ASAP if this club is to progress

Agree with a lot of your post but the quick passes to the wings and crossing strategy...

Not sure- quick passes to the wings and crosses into the box can a) Be an inefficient strategy ie goals v crosses ratio and b) Can leave a side more vulnerable on the break, in certain setups- because if a side loses the ball and is broke on quickly, this could be made more likely with a cross heavy approach- depending on how we set up and the type of crosses too, but an inefficent strategy makes losing possession more likely IMO.

Can leave a side open to being outnumbered in midfield, the quick counter or a combination of the two.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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18 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I just feel if you play Wells why not Palmer 

If you look at the start of the season Afobe, Palmer and Weimann was starting to look very good until Afobe's injury.

If Wells is closer to an Afobe type forward  than he is to a Famara type forward then it has to be worth considering, as long as we can somehow keep a solid midfield,which seems to be a problem. It would mean FD being left on the bench. which I reckon LJ is loath to do, as h has been Mr Reliable, but these are the tough decisions LJ is paid to make! 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of your post but the quick passes to the wings and crossing strategy...

Not sure- quick passes to the wings and crosses into the box can a) Be an inefficient strategy ie goals v crosses ratio and b) Can leave a side more vulnerable on the break, in certain setups- because if a side loses the ball and is broke on quickly, this could be made more likely with a cross heavy approach- depending on how we set up and the type of crosses too, but an inefficent strategy makes losing possession more likely IMO.

Can leave a side open to being outnumbered in midfield, the quick counter or a combination of the two.

I say it because its the personal we have and where our strength lays, 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not so sure- wingers in a 4-3-3 more as wider midfielders then maybe but I think we have a midfield capable of better possession than we're showing now.

I said pass it to the wing, that doesn't necessarily means playing out and out wingers, it means utilizing the flanks getting into crossing positions , something that works so well with say attacking full backs and wide midfielders, (something we use to do) 

We look to rigid and need to be more fluid, that means when say we are breaking down the left with ellision and Dasilva over lapping, we'd also need other mdifielders dropping back to cover, 

We don't do that, we've become scared of making runs and taking responsibility and thats 1 person fault imo

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On 26/02/2020 at 09:45, Hampshire Red said:

Great Post. He has looked league 1 so far and you can't blame the other players or the coach if you miss open goals, (Leeds, WBA) and don't put in effort (Huddersfield) 

He suits LJ then. 

LJ looks L1 at best most of the time. 

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Hey Cotswold, you may be one of the small minority, big keyboard type who frequent this City forum but since when has 'most of the time' been any time in the last four years when we have been competitive in the 2nd tier of English football, ie further from League 1 than most of the teams in the Championship. He has the same win ratio as his Dad (40%) and its all at this level, -  the highest we've been for 121 of our 125 years history. 

What are you on? Maybe you should look at Bristol Live (the other pessimists' bible as even they are saying BCFC should be optimistic; which of course we should be.

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11 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Hey Cotswold, you may be one of the small minority, big keyboard type who frequent this City forum but since when has 'most of the time' been any time in the last four years when we have been competitive in the 2nd tier of English football, ie further from League 1 than most of the teams in the Championship. He has the same win ratio as his Dad (40%) and its all at this level, -  the highest we've been for 121 of our 125 years history. 

What are you on? Maybe you should look at Bristol Live (the other pessimists' bible as even they are saying BCFC should be optimistic; which of course we should be.

So are you happy with the performances?

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Wells didnt bring himself here, we no doubt watched him many, many times; for LJ to spend many millions to bring him here surely he had a plan of how/where to play him so he enhances the team, not makes it worse.

So Wells has not made the team worse,  LJ has done that by not planning how/where to play him.:dunno:

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