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Did we think we were buying better than what we got?


OneTeamInBristol

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4 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Obvious issues currently within the team, whether that's the fault of the players, the management or the board etc.

But looking at some of the recent signings, did we think we were getting much better players than we've actually ended up with?

I saw lots of comments when we signed Kalas that we now had the leagues 'best defender', but is he actually as good as we thought? Can probably name half a dozen CB's who have been arguably better this season. 

He's obviously not a bad player at all but are they (they being JD, Palmer and Wells more recently as well) actually just average Championship players rather than some of the leagues best in their positions?

Not to single out Kalas btw just an example to illustrate my point.

I don't think it is the signing although some may be disappnting.Johnson does not know the style of play he wants to play or his best team.Until he knows that and sticks to it, things will never be right. His tombola selections  can work against the poorer teams but when playing against the best teams or at this time of the season when clubs are fighting both at the top and bottom of the table they fail. No team spirit or fight. That has gradually been lost as the old guard of Cotterill has left, Wilbraham, Flint, Pack etc, etc. Now when it's tough up North on Tuesday night tombola selections and no team spirit or identity and you get performances like last night. Heaven help us at Millwall. Finally I think the more players/options you give Johnson the more confused he becomes. He cannot handle a full squad. I think if he took over Liverpool they would go on a losing run. He is past his sell by date and should go.

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4 hours ago, downendcity said:

Neither Kalas or Nagy have been the same since returning from injury.

From recent articles it sounds like Nagy needs an op and this is being delayed until the summer. While we remain in contention for a play off place I can sort of understand this, but I also I get the feeling the op is being delayed so he can play in the Euro play offs and the championship, if they qualify. Given that the original injury was compounded when playing an international it seems his International situation is being given priority over the club. 

If they miss out in the play offs, by which time I reckon we will be out of contention I hope he gets the op asap to give the maximum recovery time and so he can go through full pre-season fully fit as the start of the season showed the sort of player he is.

For Kalas we know how good he can be from last season and before his injury. I wonder whether we rushed him back too soon ands before he was fully recovered and match fit.

Massengo clearly has a lot of talent and ability and when playing in the early part of the season opposition fans, let alone us, were asking how had we managed to sign him. I think he has suffered , due to his lack of experience, as the team around him has struggled to find a run of decent form.

I've said this before, and paraphrasing Morecambe and Wise, but I think we have all the right players but we are not necessarily playing them in the right order!

 

Spot on. Kalas has been injured. Nagy is still injured - he was still our best midfielder last night and was great before his injury. So they won’t be at 100%. Massengo is only 18 and is in his first proper season - we expect too much if we think he should be a consistent top 6 midfielder for 46 games already. 

However I do think we have dropped in Henriksen and Benković too much too soon. They haven’t been playing/firing all season like Wells. Whilst they have looked good on occasions, at other times they have looked sluggish - not surprising if they are not at 100%. They don’t have to play every match immediately just because we signed them in Jan. 

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I refuse to make any judgement of these players under Lee Johnson. 

We have proven quality in the squad. And even they’re playing like they’re non league. 

We’ve tried every conceivable tactic, every conceivable line up and we’ve changed everything that can be changed, except for one...

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17 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I refuse to make any judgement of these players under Lee Johnson. 

We have proven quality in the squad. And even they’re playing like they’re non league. 

We’ve tried every conceivable tactic, every conceivable line up and we’ve changed everything that can be changed, except for one...

Except 4-3-3, a genuine 4-3-3.

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6 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Ah, it's Kalas's turn now. It was Bentley's at the weekend.

DaSilva next. Then Wells.

Dasilva should be highlighted. Exploited by so many teams through lack of height and strength. Very good on the ball but failing badly at the moment in his defensive duties. This seems to have resulted in a reluctance to go forward, frequently turning inside and eventually passing back to the centre back. Who then gives it to Bentley to lump up field, where we lose possession and the cycle goes round again. The defensive side of Hunt is also quite poor, teams have targeted those areas, which is no surprise.

 

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4 hours ago, downendcity said:

I think you are being a bit disingenuous to Dasilva and Kalas,  as they formed half of a very good defence lasts season, although it seem that as this season has unfolded more and more fans seem to credit the defensive record entirely to Webster, ignoring the fact that he formed half of probably the best central defensive partnerships in the championship. That they didn't deliver success last season while on loan is, I think, more to do with our prowess at the other end of the pitch than their defensive deficiencies.

As for this season, we lost Dasilva with a long term injury before the seasons started, so hardly his fault. Alas meanwhile was starting to forger a decent partnership with the young and inexperienced Moore until his untimely injury. Since then the defence has been anything but settled with umpteen changes in personnel and formations and the defensive frailties that have resulted are hardly surprising. I don't think Kalas was fully recovered when called back into he team and further injury absences would seem to confirm that, so it is hardly surprising that he has not been cute the player he was previously, especially when brought back into a team that seemed, and still seems, pretty devoid of confidence.

Palmer is a different issue and he was just starting to show his ability at the start of the season when Afobe was injured. There was little doubt that Famara's playing style was not best suited to a player like Palmer and he has struggled to find his place, because I'm not sure LJ knows quite how to ft him into his team. Now we have signed Wells it would seem that Wells would play best with a player like Palmer in behind him, and it doesn't seem that he is working well in a 2 with FD, but I can;t see LJ leaving FD out at the moment.

It's the same conundrum LJ has with Elliason - he's arguably our best and most effective attacking player, but only if we play 4-4-2, a formation that seems to expose us to much. However, if LJ goes 4-3-3 then where does he do with Elliason? 

You highlight a key problem when you talk about partnerships. I just cannot understand or accept that 35 games into the season it"s impossible to identify any area of the side, even just a partnership between two players, that's working for us. Ultimately this group of players may not be good enough, but by this stage I"d at least expect to see the bits that are working, and know where we can / need to improve.

Some of this is down to injuries and losing key players to the league above. But given this group I"d expect any coach to find at least something consistent to build upon.

 

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6 hours ago, Dottie said:

It seems to follow a pattern, all good players when they arrive but have it coached out if them. You could add Nagy & Massengo to that list too. 

Look at our perception of the midfielders in isolation...

Nagy 

Then: finally the forward passing all action midfielder we needed. Incredible recruitment. 

Now: awful since injury, not as good as Pack was. In and put of the team.

Massengo 

Then: Wow! Our first £30m player. Must be part of a Chelsea conspiracy. Such class!

Now: Too lightweight. Needs a loan? Not in the team.

Elliasson 

Then: Assist machine. Best wide man in the league?

Now: not worth fitting in the team.

Palmer

Then: A touch of brilliance. Amazing vision.

Now: Can't play a simple ball. Maybe teammates to blame? Not in the team.

Paterson 

Then: Come back revitalised. Incredible impact. 

Now: Not in team.

And now Henriksen...looks the part for one game. Now looks dreadful. 

There's a trend here.

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6 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Kalas is clearly of considerable quality but has had a season disrupted by injuries every time he has started to get a run of games. 

The question should be pointed more towards Massengo and Nagy IMO, as midfield was the area where we were supposedly strengthening, but has clearly gone about 10 steps backwards. 

I agree the midfield is the problem.

You cant expect out defence to keep bailing us out with last ditch defending to scrap us a 1-0 win all season.

That will shatter them then drop confidence.

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