Who You Prefer Over LJ?

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Same with City fans I've know over the years decent and knowledgable and alway enjoyed playing you more than the Gas or Oxford and we've also shared a few players between us both 

Yes he started at Chelsea 

The positive is that if you go up , the momentum means that someone like yourselves , with good management , have a decent chance to carry that on through League 1 

 

[David Brent]

27 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

I think it could do if we went up under Warnock because you could hardly sack him could you 

Wouldn’t need to sack him. Would be the end of his contract 

[old_eastender]

Like others have said give Warnock till the end of season, with a big bonus pay-out if we go up.

I'd even rather have Jamie Mc given the last 10 games as caretaker, than put up with anymore dross from LJ.

[Shaun Taylor]

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The positive is that if you go up , the momentum means that someone like yourselves , with good management , have a decent chance to carry that on through League 1 

 

Yes I agree it's all about momentum and now with the fans starting to come back after five bleak seasons momentum is gathering a little pace and it proved with 13,000 against Exeter and averaging over a 1000 at away games we do have a fanbase to sustain at least league one or long term championship if we could develop the county ground etc 

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Yes I agree it's all about momentum and now with the fans starting to come back after five bleak seasons momentum is gathering a little pace and it proved with 13,000 against Exeter and averaging over a 1000 at away games we do have a fanbase to sustain at least league one or long term championship if we could develop the county ground etc 

Hope it carries on & Enjoy it mate 

We all look up , but having just been thoroughly entertained by Coventry v Sunderland with tackles flying in , great application and incident , a brilliant ref ... and the memories it stirred 

 

I’m  far from convinced as to whether higher necessarily means  ‘better’

[Shaun Taylor]

12 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Hope it carries on & Enjoy it mate 

We all look up , but having just been thoroughly entertained by Coventry v Sunderland with tackles flying in , great application and incident , a brilliant ref ... and the memories it stirred 

 

I’m  far from convinced as to whether higher necessarily means  ‘better’

Same here and if you ever reach the promised land I'm not so sure you will enjoy it like you have done in the lower leagues over the last 30/40 years where we all have so many good memories 

[Alessandro]

4 hours ago, NickJ said:

That's not correct.

After Cotterill arrived in December 2013:

In the winter transfer window of 2013/14 he signed one player on a free transfer and another 2 for relatively small fees (Osborne and El-Abd), plus 5 loan signings.

In the summer transfer window before 2014/15 he signed 3 players on free transfers and another 3 permanent signings (Smith, Freeman and Agard); no loan signings.

In the winter transfer window of 2014/15 he did not make any permanent signings but did take on 4 loans.

 

Nowhere near 30 plus signings and nowhere near making Johnson's transfer turnover look frugal.

 

Cotterill's 6 permanent signings in summer 2015 formed the nucleus of the team that strolled the league title, demonstrating I'd say his eye for quality players rather than the current manager's preference for quantity.

Actually NickJ - it is you that is incorrect, you've been rather economical with the facts here. 

The numbers - SC signed:

First window: 2 perms, 7 loans, 1 loan extended and 2 youth players. We call that = 10

Second window: 7 perms and 2 youth, call it = 7

Third window: 4 loans 

Fourth window: 2 perms, 6 loans = 8

Total: 29 (not including youth signings)

 

That's not, would you say "nowhere near 30" is it. Couldn't be much closer.

 

As i've already said, my post regarding SC's signings was not a purely about a comparison between the relative backing of SC and LJ, although that's what you've focused on. We all know LJ has been backed, in hard cash, more than SC. But that is also a much wider debate, different situations at the club for each manager.

The point was putting to bed the myth that, without taking away from his achievements, that SC was not backed or achieved a miracle promotion on a shoe string budget.  

And let's not forget the rumoured huge money bids that went in under SC that would still be our record transfer today, had they been realistic targets.

 

But as you want to compare - I find rather than just reeling off totals (especially ones including development signings) , given LJ has had twice as many windows as SC - it's useful to compare average number of signings per window - it's enlightening to see:

Steve Cotterill averaged 7.25 signings a window. Call it 7.

Lee Johnson average - (as I excluded youth/u23 signings for SC i'll do the same for LJ) 7.11. Call it 7.

So perhaps you want to have a look at your numbers again and re-phrase your claims that SC, unlike LJ went for quality over quantity. In fact both managers signed the equivalent of a whole new team every season. 

Seeing you like to talk about reactions to posts - i'd say the only thing on fire about your first post is your underwear. But surely only a "loser" would just believe what someone writes as being "undeniable" (sorry, denied above) without checking the facts themselves?

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Shaun Taylor said:

He's not on your radar as he's not achieved anything yet but  Richie Wellens has the potential to go to a much bigger club and will be much sought after if he continues to deliver both on and off the pitch 

Our current head coach hasn’t achieved anything yet either ....

[Shaun Taylor]

20 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Our current head coach hasn’t achieved anything yet either ....

Good point !

[mozo]

On 29/02/2020 at 13:46, Riaz said:

Only Tomlin from that list, you can say improved us. 

I thought Odemwingie did really well.

[intercity]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

I thought Odemwingie did really well.

And had a great song.

[Riaz]

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

I thought Odemwingie did really well.

Yeah i guess. The others tho....

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

I thought Odemwingie did really well.

Odemwingie was class.  Brought calmness on the ball playing more as a midfielder than a striker / winger.  A top pro, who once relegation was avoided, offered his place up so LJ could try other players in prep for the next season.

[NickJ]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Actually NickJ - it is you that is incorrect, you've been rather economical with the facts here. 

The numbers - SC signed:

First window: 2 perms, 7 loans, 1 loan extended and 2 youth players. We call that = 10

Second window: 7 perms and 2 youth, call it = 7

Third window: 4 loans 

Fourth window: 2 perms, 6 loans = 8

Total: 29 (not including youth signings)

 

That's not, would you say "nowhere near 30" is it. Couldn't be much closer.

 

As i've already said, my post regarding SC's signings was not a purely about a comparison between the relative backing of SC and LJ, although that's what you've focused on. We all know LJ has been backed, in hard cash, more than SC. But that is also a much wider debate, different situations at the club for each manager.

The point was putting to bed the myth that, without taking away from his achievements, that SC was not backed or achieved a miracle promotion on a shoe string budget.  

And let's not forget the rumoured huge money bids that went in under SC that would still be our record transfer today, had they been realistic targets.

 

But as you want to compare - I find rather than just reeling off totals (especially ones including development signings) , given LJ has had twice as many windows as SC - it's useful to compare average number of signings per window - it's enlightening to see:

Steve Cotterill averaged 7.25 signings a window. Call it 7.

Lee Johnson average - (as I excluded youth/u23 signings for SC i'll do the same for LJ) 7.11. Call it 7.

So perhaps you want to have a look at your numbers again and re-phrase your claims that SC, unlike LJ went for quality over quantity. In fact both managers signed the equivalent of a whole new team every season. 

Seeing you like to talk about reactions to posts - i'd say the only thing on fire about your first post is your underwear. But surely only a "loser" would just believe what someone writes as being "undeniable" (sorry, denied above) without checking the facts themselves?

 

Your answer is littered with inaccuracies, not to mention including academy players given their first contracts. 

Just for example name the 7 loan signings in the first window, think you will find it's 5 as I said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

Name the 7 permanent signings from the second window. It is 6 as I said, I would suggest you take into account Wade Elliot signed a permanent contract but is already included as a loan signing from the previous window, unless you think a player signing as a loan and then a permanent is like signing 2 different players:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

As for average signings, Cotterill had to take decisive action to save us from relegation and decisive action to clear the crap he inherited and bring in some quality.

Ideally then he would have signed some quality in the Championship but we all know how that ended up. 

The point is he had different circumstances to deal with in the 2 years he was here - created entirely by his success. Johnson is still buying and selling players like a poor mans Harry Redknapp after 4 years.

 

 

 

[Alessandro]

25 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Your answer is littered with inaccuracies, not to mention including academy players given their first contracts. 

Just for example name the 7 loan signings in the first window, think you will find it's 5 as I said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

Name the 7 permanent signings from the second window. It is 6 as I said, I would suggest you take into account Wade Elliot signed a permanent contract but is already included as a loan signing from the previous window, unless you think a player signing as a loan and then a permanent is like signing 2 different players:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

As for average signings, Cotterill had to take decisive action to save us from relegation and decisive action to clear the crap he inherited and bring in some quality.

Ideally then he would have signed some quality in the Championship but we all know how that ended up. 

The point is he had different circumstances to deal with in the 2 years he was here - created entirely by his success. Johnson is still buying and selling players like a poor mans Harry Redknapp after 4 years.

 

 

 

No, my answer is not littered with inaccuracies - yours is:

You said the first window was 5, I said 7. Here they are:  1 Elliott 2 Richards 3 Paterson 4 Gillett ( loan extended, so graciously not included in 7 ) 5 Barnett 6 Moore 7 Nosworthy 8 El Bad  

Second window, you said 6, I said 7: They were Elliott (loan made perm counts, unless you wouldn't count Tomlin or Kalas etc as signings?) Ayling, Agard, Freeman, Smith, Little, Wilbraham

I could go on but these two examples show that you are incorrect and my post was not littered with inaccuracies. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Your answer is littered with inaccuracies, not to mention including academy players given their first contracts. 

Just for example name the 7 loan signings in the first window, think you will find it's 5 as I said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

Name the 7 permanent signings from the second window. It is 6 as I said, I would suggest you take into account Wade Elliot signed a permanent contract but is already included as a loan signing from the previous window, unless you think a player signing as a loan and then a permanent is like signing 2 different players:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Bristol_City_F.C._season

 

As for average signings, Cotterill had to take decisive action to save us from relegation and decisive action to clear the crap he inherited and bring in some quality.

Ideally then he would have signed some quality in the Championship but we all know how that ended up. 

The point is he had different circumstances to deal with in the 2 years he was here - created entirely by his success. Johnson is still buying and selling players like a poor mans Harry Redknapp after 4 years.

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

No, my answer is not littered with inaccuracies - yours is:

You said the first window was 5, I said 7. Here they are:  1 Elliott 2 Richards 3 Paterson 4 Gillett ( loan extended, so graciously not included in 7 ) 5 Barnett 6 Moore 7 Nosworthy 8 El Bad  

Second window, you said 6, I said 7: They were Elliott (loan made perm counts, unless you wouldn't count Tomlin or Kalas etc as signings?) Ayling, Agard, Freeman, Smith, Little, Wilbraham

I could go on but these two examples show that you are incorrect and my post was not littered with inaccuracies. 

We can all agree and disagree on the numbers.  They start to become less relevant over time imho.

For me, both managers arrived at a time with a team in a relegation battle.  None of us can be sure SOD was taking us down in 13/14, nor Cotts in 15/16.

We can them start to talk about the differences, but will probably introduce bias / unconscious bias into the argument.  Mine towards Cotts no doubt.

[NickJ]

FIRST WINDOW

Richards was a loan signing 25 October - before Cotts arrived.

El Abd was a permanent signing and is included in my permanent signings.

So 5 loan signings as I said.

We call that - I win.

 

FIRST WINDOW - Gillett was already here when Cotts arrived but you "graciously not included" when the loan was extended? 

SECOND WINDOW - Cotts signed Elliot as a loan and he is included in the first window as a loan. You want to include him twice as another player because the loan was made permanent?

Are you actually being serious?

I could go on but that is just clutching at straws @Alessandro

 

I win.

 

[Roger Red Hat]

So we're all agreed then, we want Paul Cook next.

[Major Isewater]

On 28/02/2020 at 22:29, Robbored said:

None of them would be prepared to work under SLs  sustainability policy.  None of them would accept having to sell their better players every window and be expected to win promotion.
 

Get  real.................

You are talking like what you say is fact . I believe that many top coaches would love to work under the SL who is a decent , trustworthy man and  gives a coach most of what he asks for including genuine support when things are not going great .

This ‘ sustainability ‘ policy exists at 99% of all professional clubs and the working practice employed by BCFC is used at the majority of continental clubs and equally the top clubs in the UK.
 

No one man can do it all by himself as the stakes are way too high. 

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

FIRST WINDOW

Richards was a loan signing 25 October - before Cotts arrived.

El Abd was a permanent signing and is included in my permanent signings.

So 5 loan signings as I said.

We call that - I win.

 

FIRST WINDOW - Gillett was already here when Cotts arrived but you "graciously not included" when the loan was extended? 

SECOND WINDOW - Cotts signed Elliot as a loan and he is included in the first window as a loan. You want to include him twice as another player because the loan was made permanent?

Are you actually being serious?

I could go on but that is just clutching at straws @Alessandro

 

I win.

 

I win? How old are you?!

Richards was a loan signing made perm in Jan, under SC. Therefore in SC's list of signings. Simple.

Elliott was a loan signing (by SC) made perm under SC. Therefore a SC signing perm signing. 

With your logic, we can take Tomlin, Kalas, Dasilva, Palmer etc signings off LJ’s perm list then - because I’m pretty sure you would have counted them as both loans and perms on your list.

Just because a player was at the club on loan, they return to their parent club, and it still costs money on transfers/fees and goes on the accounts to make them permanent, therefore it is a signing. 

How odd to say I win. I didn’t know it was a competition - anyway, I’ll leave you to sit there adjusting the facts, with your fingers in your ears saying “I win”. Well done, you’ve won sounding like a sad little man!

 

 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

So we're all agreed then, we want Paul Cook next.

Where did you come up with him.....he’s a manager I really like.  

[Lew-T]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Where did you come up with him.....he’s a manager I really like.  

Seems like a real character but not somebody the board would go for imo. Think he deserves a chance at a better placed club than Wigan though.

[Alessandro]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Where did you come up with him.....he’s a manager I really like.  

Would be a very good shout.

A decent PPM at Wigan (better than LJ here, although admittedly including promotion league 1) and a good one at Portsmouth.

Don't know much about his identity, though. 

[Phileas Fogg]

23 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would be a very good shout.

A decent PPM at Wigan (better than LJ here, although admittedly including promotion league 1) and a good one at Portsmouth.

Don't know much about his identity, though. 

I've liked him for a long time. He seems a bit of a potential Chris Wilder type to me. Not that he'd necessarily replicate the success, but someone who's gained experience cutting his teeth in the lower league just needing the opportunity to show what he can do at a club ready to get promoted. 

They're almost pretty much identical in age. I'd say 50s is ideal age for a manager really. 

[Roger Red Hat]

50 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would be a very good shout.

A decent PPM at Wigan (better than LJ here, although admittedly including promotion league 1) and a good one at Portsmouth.

Don't know much about his identity, though. 

Good passing teams are generally his I.D. He would probably be ok with 'The Pathway' element as well.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I've liked him for a long time. He seems a bit of a potential Chris Wilder type to me. Not that he'd necessarily replicate the success, but someone who's gained experience cutting his teeth in the lower league just needing the opportunity to show what he can do at a club ready to get promoted. 

They're almost pretty much identical in age. I'd say 50s is ideal age for a manager really. 

 

20 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Good passing teams are generally his I.D. He would probably be ok with 'The Pathway' element as well.

I’ve just noticed he cut his teeth at Sligo Rovers.....someone else did that!!!

[Lanterne Rouge]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I’ve just noticed he cut his teeth at Sligo Rovers.....someone else did that!!!

Took them into Europe too, only the Intertoto Cup but Europe nonetheless.

[Wrongagain]

How about Korey, could get midfield sorted as player manager!
Got nouse, guts and if injured could organise from the sidelines - certainly no issues with size or inadequacy!

Deffo would have the respect of the squad!

[David Brent]

3 minutes ago, dave36 said:

How about Korey, could get midfield sorted as player manager!
Got nouse, guts and if injured could organise from the sidelines - certainly no issues with size or inadequacy!

Deffo would have the respect of the squad!

Announce new contract for LJ

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Where did you come up with him.....he’s a manager I really like.  

Cook sounds like Sean Dyche in his post match interviews too - I swear they both gargle with gravel ....