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Kiko Casilla


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12 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Is describing someone as a ‘negro’ racist? I totally get this is such a minefield in the modern world, but still can’t see the racism ...

No, the other take on it is to think of an undeniably racist word, instead of which you might try to convince someone ‘no, I didn’t say that, what I said was ^, which wasn’t racist because I switched to Spanish at the very end of a sentence in a momentary lapse’. 

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19 minutes ago, SPAZZA said:

He is alleged to have said “mark the black lad” in Spanish. Obviously Black in Spanish is Negro so....

Either they are alleging he said the real “N” word.

 

How many Spanish speakers have you got at Leeds?

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1 hour ago, Nibor said:

No, he got done for spitting.  It stops being "alleged" when it's proved.  Obviously in both Fam's case and Casilla's case it was proved to the satisfaction of the panel.  IIRC Fam didn't even deny spitting, just that he didn't spit at someone intentionally, and it was on video wasn't it?

 

 

Memory playing tricks on you nibor.

famara vehemently denied it, neither the referee or linesman saw it, there was no video evidence....he got done purely based on the somewhat biased testimony of two Birmingham players

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/discipline-cases/2018/the-fa-v-famara-diedhiou---17-may-2018.ashx

 

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8 minutes ago, Big C said:

How many Spanish speakers have you got at Leeds?


On the pitch at the time only Helda Costa speaks Spanish.

The entire coaching staff (if you’d ever watched the awful match interviews / press conferences) speaks Spanish and a few other players.

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Think if he did say that, it is racist. Why not 'mark no9' for example. I think what were getting at is that perhaps it's un intensionally racist. And I'm sure with some education on the matter the guy will not only apologise but understand why he is apologising. The later being more important. We all make mistakes and learn from them. Seems fair punishment and a productive way to deal with this type of incident. 

 

Shame it took so bloody long mind. No good for anyone involved! 

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25 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Think if he did say that, it is racist. Why not 'mark no9' for example. I think what were getting at is that perhaps it's un intensionally racist. And I'm sure with some education on the matter the guy will not only apologise but understand why he is apologising. The later being more important. We all make mistakes and learn from them. Seems fair punishment and a productive way to deal with this type of incident. 

 

Shame it took so bloody long mind. No good for anyone involved! 

Someone fills in a form and lists themselves as black.

Someone else says “mark the black lad” and it’s apparently racist?

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56 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

Memory playing tricks on you nibor.

famara vehemently denied it, neither the referee or linesman saw it, there was no video evidence....he got done purely based on the somewhat biased testimony of two Birmingham players

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/discipline-cases/2018/the-fa-v-famara-diedhiou---17-may-2018.ashx

Quite possibly, but it's pretty clear the panel thought there was enough evidence in both cases.

The "I was speaking spanish" excuse is laughable but Leeds have little shame.

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47 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Think if he did say that, it is racist. Why not 'mark no9' for example. I think what were getting at is that perhaps it's un intensionally racist. And I'm sure with some education on the matter the guy will not only apologise but understand why he is apologising. The later being more important. We all make mistakes and learn from them. Seems fair punishment and a productive way to deal with this type of incident. 

 

Shame it took so bloody long mind. No good for anyone involved! 

Why is describing someone as ‘black’ racist?!

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15 minutes ago, SPAZZA said:

Someone fills in a form and lists themselves as black.

Someone else says “mark the black lad” and it’s apparently racist?

Someone fills in a form and it says what country they were born in or what ethnicity they are. That is not there new nick name. What is wrong with saying mark number 9? 

I am a white English builder and my view has developed over the years. I 'get' your point. But it's racist. 

If I was in a team and I was the only white guy, and the same was said. It would still be racist. 

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1 hour ago, SPAZZA said:

He is alleged to have said “mark the black lad” in Spanish. Obviously Black in Spanish is Negro so....

Either they are alleging he said the real “N” word.

Sorry to tell you but no one in Spain often simply says "black" in Spanish to refer to someone. It's like John Terry saying "you black." He isn't going to do it. No one does. Black is meant to just add to the message.

If what you say is true, best guess he said "Negrito" which means "little black" but basically "little N". Either way based on his back four I'm not betting on him giving out instruction in Spanish so whatever people heard, it would translate, even to Leko too.

I will tell you with plenty of knowledge that Spain isn't historically somewhere that has eliminated racism even from casual chat, so it isn't like the accusation is outlandish. But I for one will reserve judgment if there is no proof as otherwise we condone what happened to Famara last season.

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Why is describing someone as ‘black’ racist?!

One , the colour 'black' doesn't accurately describe a persons skin pigmentation, it's a very old racist stero type.  Two , if the roles were reversed and you were known as the white one. You might get peeved.

It's fair to just say mark no.9 ? 

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Workplaces are not courts of law. In pretty much any workplace disciplinary procedure, the burden of proof would be “balance of probability” rather than “beyond all reasonable doubt” so he is being no more unfairly treated than anyone else who has a disciplinary process at work. It does not necessarily mean there was no evidence. Even if there is compelling evidence he did it, “balance of probability” would still be the test applied.

I think it hard to have an opinion beyond that until we see the written reasoning for the decision later in the week. Until then it is just speculation.

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6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Workplaces are not courts of law. In pretty much any workplace disciplinary procedure, the burden of proof would be “balance of probability” rather than “beyond all reasonable doubt” so he is being no more unfairly treated than anyone else who has a disciplinary process at work. It does bit necessarily mean there was no evidence. Even if there is compelling evidence he did it, “balance of probability” would still be the test applied.

I think it hard to have an opinion beyond that until we see the written reasoning for the decision later in the week. Until then it is just speculation.

Indeed, and even in a court of law, if it's a civil case then I believe that 'balance of probability' applies. It's only criminal cases that require "beyond reasonable doubt".

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37 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

One , the colour 'black' doesn't accurately describe a persons skin pigmentation, it's a very old racist stero type.  Two , if the roles were reversed and you were known as the white one. You might get peeved.

It's fair to just say mark no.9 ? 

Good grief - the world’s gone mad - describing someone as ‘black’ is not racist, and why would I get ‘peeved’ if I was described as ‘white’? And how do you know I am white? That’s a bit of a ‘stereotyping’ assumption ...

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51 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

One , the colour 'black' doesn't accurately describe a persons skin pigmentation, it's a very old racist stero type.  Two , if the roles were reversed and you were known as the white one. You might get peeved.

It's fair to just say mark no.9 ? 

Good god man, have you been drinking? 


i filled out a poll on the council website the other day and at the end it asked me to complete some details about myself.....it asked if I was white english, white European, black Caribbean, black African.....etc, etc

well, imagine my shock at the racist undertones of the questioning......I was so offended I was straight on the phone to the councils diversity department demanding they take down this racist propaganda :facepalm:

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5 hours ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

One , the colour 'black' doesn't accurately describe a persons skin pigmentation, it's a very old racist stero type. 

Hate to say that is way off the mark and would argue that you have this the wrong way around 

To put it in context I'm 45 and grew up with many friends of mixed race.

Rightly or wrongly I was brought up in the 1980s that I should use the terminology 'coloured' but definitely not to use the phrase 'black' as that was deemed offensive 

Fast forward to now and this is still instilled in me, but I often get pulled up personally and professionally as I instinctively call people 'coloured' still, but I'm told that they must be referred to as 'black' as calling someone 'coloured' is now inappropriate 

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10 minutes ago, phantom said:

Hate to say that is way off the mark and would argue that you have this the wrong way around 

To put it in context I'm 45 and grew up with many friends of mixed race.

Rightly or wrongly I was brought up in the 1980s that I should use the terminology 'coloured' but definitely not to use the phrase 'black' as that was deemed offensive 

Fast forward to now and this is still instilled in me, but I often get pulled up personally and professionally as I instinctively call people 'coloured' still, but I'm told that they must be referred to as 'black' as calling someone 'coloured' is now inappropriate 

I work in a multi ethnic team, have multi ethnic friends and I've never once had to refer to any of them by their skin colour. 

They have names. 

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41 minutes ago, J-mat said:

I work in a multi ethnic team, have multi ethnic friends and I've never once had to refer to any of them by their skin colour. 

They have names. 

A classic example of misinterpreting the style something is written in 

I obviously didn't mean I referred to people that way

It was a these people correcting me 

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11 hours ago, deadredfred said:

8 match ban? Pathetic. I’d lose my job, don’t see why it should be any different 

I think the ban is a bit harsh. The comment made ‘mark the black one” ok it could of been worded better and  more likely should be a 2 match ban. 

What about the other side of the coin. My daughter in Darwin was the only “white girl “ in her class when she was six years old and the rest called her “white girl”

lets put things in to some perspective 

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22 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

So you assumed that he knew his name. Everything in football happens at such slow speeds doesn't it. So if a corner was about to fly in, loads of players have scattered about and you want him to have a complete check to make sure that its Mr Leko before shouting anything. 

Let's flip this. If every player in the box was black, and there was one white guy in the box and someone shouted "mark the white guy" do you think there would be an 8 game ban and a £60,000,000 fine?

60,000,000 um you mean 60,000.00 quid. ? i do agree though where you are coming from. I do not not believe in racism and I agree its all getting all out of hand. Dead red Fred says he would lose his job, does his company need a lesson in basic communication and fairness or perhaps a new realistic HR Manager 

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10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

So if he’d said, ‘mark the tall one’ or ‘mark the guy with the tattoos’ or ‘mark the ginger haired one’ or ‘mark the podgy one’ etc etc etc that would have been fine? But ‘mark the black one’ is deemed racist? Not having at a dig at you, but if that is the FA rules they are clearly wrong ....

Or even "the black guy"??

A better choice of words/phrase??

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2 hours ago, phantom said:

A classic example of misinterpreting the style something is written in 

I obviously didn't mean I referred to people that way

It was a these people correcting me 

" I often get pulled up personally and professionally as I instinctively call people 'coloured', still" 

what the hell is there to misinterpret? 

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13 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

“The incident took place in Charlton’s win over the Whites on 28 September”  - has anyone complained about this line in the BBC report? Surely they could have described Leeds United using a more appropriate term in this day and age rather than refer to the colour of their kit ... why not call them the ‘Yorkshire club’ or ‘Leeds’ or ‘the premier-bound team’ or anything else to avoid using ‘white’ ?

Obviously I’m not being very serious here but many people seem to proactively look for any way of being offended and insulted all day every day, they constantly search for hate and reasons to complain where often none exists ...

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I don't have a dog in this race because I have no idea what was actually said, but can I ask the people who have posted lots of different varieties of "you just can't say anything anymore without offending people" - what is it you really want to say?

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