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E.G.Red

Starting 11 for Fulham

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With all the grumbling about not having a settled side for the past few games , who do you see playing on Saturday? I’d like Palmer in and Wells playing up front with Fam slightly behind. Kalas & Baker at back. 

Edited by E.G.Red

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To be fair, injuries aside, it can only be this:

Maenpaa

Pereira | Kalas | Baker | Dasilva

Paterson | Smith | Nagy | O’Dowda

Weimann | Diedhiou

Its the side he picked after Tuesday’s horror show, so i don’t see how he can get any respect by picking something different.

 

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I feel like we are at the same place as the last couple of seasons where I’m thinking how have we not moved forward with Paterson still be playing, Wiemann, O’Dowda etc.

Why do we bother with the January transfer market when we end up with tried and tested albeit predominantly not succeeded.

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17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

To be fair, injuries aside, it can only be this:

Maenpaa

Pereira | Kalas | Baker | Dasilva

Paterson | Smith | Nagy | O’Dowda

Weimann | Diedhiou

Its the side he picked after Tuesday’s horror show, so i don’t see how he can get any respect by picking something different.

 

Anyone but Weimann and COD , 

Id be happy if they never played for city again 

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6 minutes ago, Meh said:

I feel like we are at the same place as the last couple of seasons where I’m thinking how have we not moved forward with Paterson still be playing, Wiemann, O’Dowda etc.

Why do we bother with the January transfer market when we end up with tried and tested albeit predominantly not succeeded.

Because we pander to a head-coaches / CEOs recruitment whims.

1 minute ago, Charlie0016 said:

Anyone but Weimann and COD , 

Id be happy if they never played for city again 

But that was the trusted team yesterday.  Bar injuries, how can LJ now pick anything different?

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2 minutes ago, Agard Days Night said:

Never thought I’d say it but I think it’s finally time to drop Weimann altogether. 

Did something bad happen to you on a school exchange trip to Austria....or you had the shits having eaten a Viennese Whirl?

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

To be fair, injuries aside, it can only be this:

Maenpaa

Pereira | Kalas | Baker | Dasilva

Paterson | Smith | Nagy | O’Dowda

Weimann | Diedhiou

Its the side he picked after Tuesday’s horror show, so i don’t see how he can get any respect by picking something different.

 

I don't see how respect comes into it ?

I would think that he'll pick the team from those available - probably from the 18 man squad he had yesterday.

Paterson had a mare to go with the others recently, Pereira, Kalas, Baker, Smith, Nagy, and Dasilva had relatively good games imo and O'Dowda looked a lot better than lately.I would think they are certs to start. Probably Weimann and Diedhiou as well.

The only doubts imo are Maenpaa (if Bentley is available after injury), and Paterson.

None of the subs did anything to merit a start imo.

So two changes, maybe three - but I don't understand the respect thing.

 

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9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I don't see how respect comes into it ?

I would think that he'll pick the team from those available - probably from the 18 man squad he had yesterday.

Paterson had a mare to go with the others recently, Pereira, Kalas, Baker, Smith, Nagy, and Dasilva had relatively good games imo and O'Dowda looked a lot better than lately.I would think they are certs to start. Probably Weimann and Diedhiou as well.

The only doubts imo are Maenpaa (if Bentley is available after injury), and Paterson.

None of the subs did anything to merit a start imo.

So two changes, maybe three - but I don't understand the respect thing.

 

I totally get your rationale based on yesterday. But the point I’m struggling to make (apologies) is that the team picked yesterday was based on all the factors that went before, so Pato was Lee’s first choice for that position?  Who does he bring in?  The person he felt wasn’t first choice yesterday in a crunch game.  The player he didnt even include in the 18?

His judgement is getting worse. It’s becoming guesswork imho. Hoping to stumble on a winning combination or get a reaction.  It didn’t  

 

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

To be fair, injuries aside, it can only be this:

Maenpaa

Pereira | Kalas | Baker | Dasilva

Paterson | Smith | Nagy | O’Dowda

Weimann | Diedhiou

Its the side he picked after Tuesday’s horror show, so i don’t see how he can get any respect by picking something different.

 

Ok, If he goes for 0-0. Otherwise If we play for a win, Eliasson and Wells in the starting eleven. Pato and Odowda not in the team.

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2 minutes ago, Garland-sweden said:

Ok, If he goes for 0-0. Otherwise If we play for a win, Eliasson and Wells in the starting eleven. Pato and Odowda not in the team.

I'll agree with Eliasson for Pato :yes:

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He will change it simply because it's different opposition who will pose a different threat, and he will pick a team to counter them rather than a team to make them think about us. So who will play? Even Lee wont have decided yet. But I bet not many of us get it right.

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Fully expect another 5 or 6 changes with another change of formation. Oh and a stuffing.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I totally get your rationale based on yesterday. But the point I’m struggling to make (apologies) is that the team picked yesterday was based on all the factors that went before, so Pato was Lee’s first choice for that position?  Who does he bring in?  The person he felt wasn’t first choice yesterday in a crunch game.  The player he didnt even include in the 18?

You've got me there - which player is that ? Palmer ? If so, I'd agree. 

His judgement is getting worse. It’s becoming guesswork imho. Hoping to stumble on a winning combination or get a reaction.  It didn’t  

I'd suggest that it did get a reaction. We looked up for it for the whole 90+ minutes and looked comfortable in the first half imo. Compare that to Huddersfield which was an abject performance. I saw individual performances yesterday that gave me a little bit of optimism going forward. There were misplaced passes and there were lumps forward etc. But I did see the basic requirements that were lacking at Huddersfield - pride, integrity, fight.

Yes, the game wasn't the best watch in the second half but at least the players got a bit of respect back (from me at least and probably for themselves). I don't know how much LJ had in getting that reaction , I would guess not a lot as they are professionals and didn't need anyone telling them that Huddersfield was unacceptable and certainly didn't need anyone hung out to dry. But yesterday was all about the players for me, not LJ. They needed to provide a reaction for themselves and I honestly think they did.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

 

Firstly fair play and total respect for even travelling

As for your assessment , accepting you are grasping at any positives .....

.......but don’t you think it’s poor that after 4 years of his tenure , backed to the hilt with everything he’s wanted , the positives amount to 

It was better than a completely *^^^ and embarrassing performance at Huddersfield

and

The players who were picked showed some pride fight and integrity 

 

Not a great progress report after four years is it..............

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Because we pander to a head-coaches / CEOs recruitment whims.

But that was the trusted team yesterday.  Bar injuries, how can LJ now pick anything different?

So LJ isn’t allowed to make a single change?  Bizarre 

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Firstly fair play and total respect for even travelling

As for your assessment , accepting you are grasping at any positives .....

.......but don’t you think it’s poor that after 4 years of his tenure , backed to the hilt with everything he’s wanted , the positives amount to 

It was better than a completely *^^^ and embarrassing performance at Huddersfield

and

The players who were picked showed some pride fight and integrity 

 

Not a great progress report after four years is it..............

I don't dispute that at all.

But, for me, yesterday was all about the players and their reaction to Huddersfield.

LJ four years tenure is a different issue and I really don't think anything will change until the end of the season. It'll be interesting if we did make the playoffs though - would that be enough for him to keep his job ? And if we won them, would that even be enough ?

Easy answer if we don't make them..

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9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

So LJ isn’t allowed to make a single change?  Bizarre 

 

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Firstly fair play and total respect for even travelling

As for your assessment , accepting you are grasping at any positives .....

.......but don’t you think it’s poor that after 4 years of his tenure , backed to the hilt with everything he’s wanted , the positives amount to 

It was better than a completely *^^^ and embarrassing performance at Huddersfield

and

The players who were picked showed some pride fight and integrity 

 

Not a great progress report after four years is it..............

Exactly. And on any other given day it could be yesterday's 11 who are the "bad" guys to LJ and those who were dropped as the fighters.

All a bit of a mess, but we are 7th. What a crazy season.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I don't dispute that at all.

But, for me, yesterday was all about the players and their reaction to Huddersfield.

 

And the reaction of players that weren’t in the side will be the ultimate factor I’d suggest ?

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5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

And the reaction of players that weren’t in the side will be the ultimate factor I’d suggest ?

That would be a factor but I'll go back to the questions I raised of whether we make the playoffs or not - that will be the ultimate factor. 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, RedDave said:

So LJ isn’t allowed to make a single change?  Bizarre 

No, I’m not articulating my point well.

It’s more, what was so right in his team selection / system on Tuesday pre-game that he ripped it up at half-time. Then yesterday the players that he used to change it at h-t on Tuesday were cast aside again.

If he really believes in his team selections and system, stop changing them as soon as it doesn’t quite work. No patience to let the team build cohesion and understanding in each other.

If he really believed Saturday’s starting line up was so right pre-game, he should have no hesitation in keeping it unchanged v Fulham.  These are now the trusted players in his trusted “latest” system.  What made him think this was so much better than Tuesday, of the previous game, of the one before that, etc.

And if the eleven was so right on Saturday, why did we recruit who we did in January?

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, I’m not articulating my point well.

It’s more, what was so right in his team selection / system on Tuesday pre-game that he ripped it up at half-time. Then yesterday the players that he used to change it at h-t on Tuesday were cast aside again.

If he really believes in his team selections and system, stop changing them as soon as it doesn’t quite work. No patience to let the team build cohesion and understanding in each other.

If he really believed Saturday’s starting line up was so right pre-game, he should have no hesitation in keeping it unchanged v Fulham.  These are now the trusted players in his trusted “latest” system.  What made him think this was so much better than Tuesday, of the previous game, of the one before that, etc.

And if the eleven was so right on Saturday, why did we recruit who we did in January?

If a manager picks the game system and players for Millwall away on an awful pitch and then Fulham at home, I’d be worried.  

I wouldn’t be changing it for every team but there are specific games in this league where you have to think about the opponents threats.  Fulham is one of those games.  

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40 minutes ago, RedDave said:

So LJ isn’t allowed to make a single change?  Bizarre 

Bizarre is your defence of him all the time.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, I’m not articulating my point well.

It’s more, what was so right in his team selection / system on Tuesday pre-game that he ripped it up at half-time. Then yesterday the players that he used to change it at h-t on Tuesday were cast aside again.

I don't think a lot of people disagreed with the line up on Tuesday, myself included. But what we saw from the players was an abject performance so he had the right to rip it up at half time imo. Bekovic was a complete liability, Hunt couldn't pass water etc etc. Second half wasn't much better so unsurprising that he changed it again for Millwall. Most would have expected it I would suggest. I would put Tuesdays performance squarely at the feet of the players not the management.

If he really believes in his team selections and system, stop changing them as soon as it doesn’t quite work. No patience to let the team build cohesion and understanding in each other.

Agreed. He has been guilty of this since being here. But Tuesday was different imo.

If he really believed Saturday’s starting line up was so right pre-game, he should have no hesitation in keeping it unchanged v Fulham.  These are now the trusted players in his trusted “latest” system.  What made him think this was so much better than Tuesday, of the previous game, of the one before that, etc.

Glib answer is that it couldn't be any worse than Tuesday. But having now grasped what you've been saying I would agree that the team should have minimal changes not just for Fulham but for the remaining ten games as per the previous point.

And if the eleven was so right on Saturday, why did we recruit who we did in January?

No idea. One was a player with about 6 appearances in two years albeit an undoubtedly good player, one was unproven in the Championship, and one was a good fit for QPR but not necessarily here. Of the three, Wells is the most understandable acquisition imo.

 

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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

If a manager picks the game system and players for Millwall away on an awful pitch and then Fulham at home, I’d be worried.  

I wouldn’t be changing it for every team but there are specific games in this league where you have to think about the opponents threats.  Fulham is one of those games.  

It’s when he’s done that on the back of calling out players at various points throughout the season, then suddenly they become the chosen ones.

Hes had countless chances to settle on a system and core of players, but he can’t find it.

Of course he can tweak, rest, rotate, but not wholesale changes. There are no principles to selection though. He’s created a disjointed squad of players that can’t play with others and some that can’t play a particular system. It means that when he needs to make a change it requires more than just one in / one out.

I really thought he’d come out of the window with clarity. It’s got worse.

Im glad we are still in with a chance of play-offs but I haven’t felt this deflated since Preston home (not away) in 2018 when I thought the players weren’t giving 100%.  I don’t always see it as LJ’s fault. 

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1 minute ago, Agard Days Night said:

Yes and yes.

Both things more productive and less painful for me than watching Weimann toil aimlessly upfront.

RE the Viennese Whirl incident - more running even than Andi offers. And a shitty end product. 

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Firstly fair play and total respect for even travelling

As for your assessment , accepting you are grasping at any positives .....

.......but don’t you think it’s poor that after 4 years of his tenure , backed to the hilt with everything he’s wanted , the positives amount to 

It was better than a completely *^^^ and embarrassing performance at Huddersfield

and

The players who were picked showed some pride fight and integrity 

 

Not a great progress report after four years is it..............

Everything he's wanted?

So you think he was happy for Bryan, Reid, Webster, Pack, Brownhill to be sold? To name a few.

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12 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Everything he's wanted?

So you think he was happy for Bryan, Reid, Webster, Pack, Brownhill to be sold? To name a few.

Go on name a few more ........

A manager loses players shocker 

He was full of himself having traded Pack for Nagy and Massengo

75 signings - Id guess in amongst them he’s had various opportunities to replace and he’s been allowed to (allegedly) upgrade every position including in depth

Whats he not been allowed to have ? any suggestions ?

 

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Bentley 
 

Pereira  Kalas  Baker  Dasilva 

               Smith Nagy 

Eliasson   Palmer    Paterson    

                     Wells 

Subs 

Wollacott Hunt Williams Henriksen massengo Weimann Diedhiou 

 

 

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                Maenpaa

Pereira Kalas Benkovic Dasilva 

             Smith    Nagy

Eliasson  Henriksen. Paterson 

                    Wells 

 

A bit different. But Henriksen scored plenty in Holland in that role.

It looks solid but with plenty of attacking threat too.

 

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Wouldn’t mind the same 11 as yesterday, with 1 change of Eliasson starting for COD. He’s due an assist and we usually attack well against Fulham for some reason.

 

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50 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Go on name a few more ........

A manager loses players shocker 

He was full of himself having traded Pack for Nagy and Massengo

75 signings - Id guess in amongst them he’s had various opportunities to replace and he’s been allowed to (allegedly) upgrade every position including in depth

Whats he not been allowed to have ? any suggestions ?

 

Webster still not been replaced permanently, and he replaced Flint. 

Ayling, I believe (but have no proof) the decision to sell him was taken above LJ's pay grade, due to the whole Cheltenham saga.

There have been many reported targets that have not happened for one reason or another. Now this is normal obviously but you cannot therefore say he had everything he wanted.

Seemingly, he is the first manager who not only has to sell to buy but has to sell to buy and make a profit! Who knows how many players have been sold to make that profit or finance targets?

Not me for sure....

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5 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Webster still not been replaced permanently, and he replaced Flint. 

Ayling, I believe (but have no proof) the decision to sell him was taken above LJ's pay grade, due to the whole Cheltenham saga.

There have been many reported targets that have not happened for one reason or another. Now this is normal obviously but you cannot therefore say he had everything he wanted.

Seemingly, he is the first manager who not only has to sell to buy but has to sell to buy and make a profit! Who knows how many players have been sold to make that profit or finance targets?

Not me for sure....

Ayling only had year left on contract didn't he, and Leeds were interested?

So didn't have much choice there if so.

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10 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Webster still not been replaced permanently, and he replaced Flint. 

Ayling, I believe (but have no proof) the decision to sell him was taken above LJ's pay grade, due to the whole Cheltenham saga.

There have been many reported targets that have not happened for one reason or another. Now this is normal obviously but you cannot therefore say he had everything he wanted.

Seemingly, he is the first manager who not only has to sell to buy but has to sell to buy and make a profit! Who knows how many players have been sold to make that profit or finance targets?

Not me for sure....

Fwiw

Think you forgot LJs explanation re Ayling 

 

As for having to recoup £££££ 

Maybe if he didn’t sign so many players that he doesn’t use might help

 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

                Maenpaa

Pereira Kalas Benkovic Dasilva 

             Smith    Nagy

Eliasson  Henriksen. Paterson 

                    Wells 

 

A bit different. But Henriksen scored plenty in Holland in that role.

It looks solid but with plenty of attacking threat too.

 

Aren’t they on the naughty step? 😂

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Which one? All the ones LJ has fallen out with would fill a Dolman stair completely - leave them there for match day and we might make a five a side team with those left

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2 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Which one? All the ones LJ has fallen out with would fill a Dolman stair completely - leave them there for match day and we might make a five a side team with those left

The ones in bold, possibly Wells too.

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9 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

who do you see playing on Saturday?

How the hell would we know with whom WeeLee's going to have a spat this week?

At other clubs the 'I'm On The Naughty Step / Loser of the Week' gilets jaunes is supposedly a motivational bit of fun. Not at Failand where only now is Ashton realising what he thought were companion french signings for Massengo are actually tyrannical weapons of oppression.

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26 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I would make one change. Elliason for Weimann. Cannot remember Weimann last 7/10 game

Yes, been a while.  What system?

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Not going to happen but something like this would be a nice change. 

                          Maenpaa

Pereira        Kalas        Baker       Dasilva

                    Smith     Henriksen   

Paterson                                         Eliasson

                            Palmer

                             Wells

Adam Nagy doesn’t get anywhere near my starting 11.

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well that can't last forever!

Have you ever watched “Supernanny”? 😱

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                           Maenpaa

Perieira         Kalas      Baker      Dasilva

                    Smith         Nagy

Eliasson            Palmer          Paterson

                             Wells

 

Wollacott

Benkovic

Henriksen

Rowe

O'Dowda

Diedhiou

Weimann

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4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

He was full of himself having traded Pack for Nagy and Massengo

 

 

In fairness, so were a good many of us on here back in September! 

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