The “we are 7th” argument...

[formerly known as ivan]

For those remaining people who believe LJ is the man to move us forward and that being in 7th is progress, is this a valid point?

Without having done any research, I feel like we find ourselves in 7th place because the league is so poor. It’s not like we are playing above ourselves and deserve to be there. We all know the standard of football, especially at home, is shocking and the lack of shots, especially on target, is a massive concern.

If anyone who can be bothered, it would be interesting to see the points tally at this stage of the season vs the previous 5-10 seasons to see where we compare currently. It could be our points total is what would be expected from a team in 7th at this stage, although I would be surprised if there was a 4-6 point average difference.

[Davefevs]

If 74 points are needed on average to claim 6th spot, then after 36 games you should be on 58.  Someone will know the average points....it’s not in my spreadsheet!

Whether it’s a poorer league or not is subjective.  Is it more competitive rather?

I dunno really.

[Eastside Moonwalker]

we're 7th mainly due to luck. Teams seem to bottle it the same time we do. Look at the table now and two losses for us could throw us down to 11th if results go the way of Cardiff, Swansea or Millwall. 

I would say though, our team isn't bad, I'd put it on par with that of PNE. But we are no where near the quality of the teams above us. Leeds, WBA, Brentford, Forest, Fulham are way better and I don't think we'll reach the level of these teams playing the football we are currently playing (unsure if that means getting rid of LJ or not).

Perhaps that's an unpopular opinon but I think we're probably in the right place, especially considering home form

[Vincent Vega]

4 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

For those remaining people who believe LJ is the man to move us forward and that being in 7th is progress, is this a valid point?

Without having done any research, I feel like we find ourselves in 7th place because the league is so poor. It’s not like we are playing above ourselves and deserve to be there. We all know the standard of football, especially at home, is shocking and the lack of shots, especially on target, is a massive concern.

If anyone who can be bothered, it would be interesting to see the points tally at this stage of the season vs the previous 5-10 seasons to see where we compare currently. It could be our points total is what would be expected from a team in 7th at this stage, although I would be surprised if there was a 4-6 point average difference.

This argument just doesn't stack up at all. We are 7th now because that's where we deserve to be. If we finish 15th in May its because that's where we deserve to be, nothing to do with the rest of the league. 

[formerly known as ivan]

7 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

This argument just doesn't stack up at all. We are 7th now because that's where we deserve to be. If we finish 15th in May its because that's where we deserve to be, nothing to do with the rest of the league. 

In this season yes, it’s hard to argue with that fact, but what about in comparison to previous seasons.

Its more out of interest of whether this season has been as poor as it seems across the league which will contribute to our league position as it’s not the standard of football that sees us sat outside the play offs.

[Murraysrightplum]

It’s similar to the Leicester only won the league because everyone else was rubbish argument and is nonsense really. Teams all play each other and what may look like poor performances and inconsistency is probably due to teams cancelling each other out, competitiveness etc. On average footballers are getting better over time, certainly physically anyway and as more teams have access to top training etc then there is more parity across the league. We’ve seen it in the premier as well. Watford just thumped Liverpool FFS!

[formerly known as ivan]

6 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said:

It’s similar to the Leicester only won the league because everyone else was rubbish argument and is nonsense really. Teams all play each other and what may look like poor performances and inconsistency is probably due to teams cancelling each other out, competitiveness etc. On average footballers are getting better over time, certainly physically anyway and as more teams have access to top training etc then there is more parity across the league. We’ve seen it in the premier as well. Watford just thumped Liverpool FFS!

Good point about Leicester. Won the league with 81 points, whereas the average points to win the premier league is 86 (will increase further after Liverpool this season).

This is what I am asking though. Where would we sit currently if there was an average points tally at this stage of the season? Not easy numbers to get hence why I haven’t bothered!

[Abraham Romanovich]

If we reach the playoffs and lose over 2 legs has the season been a success.?

Not in my opinion as a club we have gone backwards , no attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment.

 

[Vincent Vega]

3 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

If we reach the playoffs and lose over 2 legs has the season been a success.?

Not in my opinion as a club we have gone backwards , no attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment.

 

I love our fanbase sometimes. 

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

we're 7th mainly due to luck. Teams seem to bottle it the same time we do. Look at the table now and two losses for us could throw us down to 11th if results go the way of Cardiff, Swansea or Millwall. 

I would say though, our team isn't bad, I'd put it on par with that of PNE. But we are no where near the quality of the teams above us. Leeds, WBA, Brentford, Forest, Fulham are way better and I don't think we'll reach the level of these teams playing the football we are currently playing (unsure if that means getting rid of LJ or not).

Perhaps that's an unpopular opinon but I think we're probably in the right place, especially considering home form

I agree with Leeds, West Brom, and Fulham.  I think there is very little between us, Forest, Brentford and Preston.  Apart from these 3 all have a defined way of playing, a regular core of players.  Lamouchi had a little tinker a few weeks back, but seems to have learned.

[Jerseybean]

I hope this post proves to be horribly premature and incorrect, after all, there are still 30 points to be played for. Nevertheless I’m minded to briefly take stock of our season and reflect on our current 7th place.

1. Home form - abysmal
2. Performances - have generally been disappointing and at times utterly shocking
3. Recruitment - good on paper, however, less so on the pitch
4. League position - the table doesn’t lie but IMO we are realistically a top half team not a top six team
5. Support - all things considered quite remarkable

So, if we were say tenth in the table with ten games to go it would be so much easier being a City supporter!  Despite everything above we - somehow - remain in touch with a top six place. As much as I’d love us to make the play-offs we really don’t deserve it and if we were involved I’d fear for the outcome.

As a life-long supporter I will end with a positive, if not a realistic, observation. Six of our remaining games are against other teams who are in with a chance of a play-off place, so it remains in our hands, put together a winning run and we can make the play-offs.

Like I said I hope this post proves to be premature and incorrect.

 

[Mendip City]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree with Leeds, West Brom, and Fulham.  I think there is very little between us, Forest, Brentford and Preston.  Apart from these 3 all have a defined way of playing, a regular core of players.  Lamouchi had a little tinker a few weeks back, but seems to have learned.

Does make you wonder - are we 7th in spite of all the tinkering? Where might we be with a settled way of playing/line-up? 

[Judda]

What annoys me is that we were a joy to watch around the time we beat Man U.  Nice passing attacking football. Pressing well etc... The style of play has gone backwards by about 5 years!

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Does make you wonder - are we 7th in spite of all the tinkering? Where might we be with a settled way of playing/line-up? 

Said it a few times , a decent stable side , well drilled , could have looked at top two this season 

This is the season we should be cashing in on SLs backing LJ and giving him 4 years 

IMHO we aren't seeing any benefit , let alone ‘ cashing in ‘

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Does make you wonder - are we 7th in spite of all the tinkering? Where might we be with a settled way of playing/line-up? 

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Said it a few times , a decent stable side , well drilled , could have looked at top two this season 

This is the season we should be cashing in on SLs backing LJ and giving him 4 years 

IMHO we aren't seeing any benefit , let alone ‘ cashing in ‘

Yes, would be my response too.

[lenred]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree with Leeds, West Brom, and Fulham.  I think there is very little between us, Forest, Brentford and Preston.  Apart from these 3 all have a defined way of playing, a regular core of players.  Lamouchi had a little tinker a few weeks back, but seems to have learned.

There was a real reaction in the media to how many changes he made in that game (5 against Charlton I think?) and I remember thinking then that it’s incredible how LJ gets away with making so many changes week in / week out. 

[Fordy62]

We haven’t drawn a lot of games. That always allows for us to be shitter. 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think it depends on how you define success.

As a similar point, what would people rather see?

1. We finish 12th, but play very attractive entertaining football, play some young players, clear 'identity' in how we play etc but lose a few games 
2. Finish 7th, just miss out on the playoffs.. fairly dull pragmatic football without a coherent 'identity'

I think whether you see 7th as a success solely on the point that we've progressed in terms of league position has crossover with how you'd answer the above. In both of those options we miss out on the playoffs either way.

[DirtySanchez]

CHAMPIONSHIP:
Poor - NO. More competitive - YES. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

There was a real reaction in the media to how many changes he made in that game (5 against Charlton I think?) and I remember thinking then that it’s incredible how LJ gets away with making so many changes week in / week out. 

Yes, my work colleague is a Forest fan.....we both agreed, play your strongest side, win the game, and worry about tiredness / fatigue with upcoming games after you’ve safely secured the points.

[Curr Avon]

13 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Said it a few times , a decent stable side , well drilled , could have looked at top two this season 

This is the season we should be cashing in on SLs backing LJ and giving him 4 years 

IMHO we aren't seeing any benefit , let alone ‘ cashing in ‘

Absolutely. And looking at our fixtures you wonder, where is our next win coming from?

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, my work colleague is a Forest fan.....we both agreed, play your strongest side, win the game, and worry about tiredness / fatigue with upcoming games after you’ve safely secured the points.

Yep, completely agree. LJ can’t adopt that very basic strategy though as you need to know your best team in order to implement it and he hasn’t a clue - hence the tombola every blooming week! 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Absolutely. And looking at our fixtures you wonder, where is our next win coming from?

I actually think we will beat Fulham Mark

Another Flaky side 

[Robbored]

30 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

If we reach the playoffs and lose over 2 legs has the season been a success.?

Not in my opinion as a club we have gone backwards , no attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment.

The season would be a success simply based on SL wanting to see progress season on season.

Looking back to season when City reached the play off final the entire season up to the semifinals against Palace had been a mirror image of this one. No attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment.

However the two semis against Palace were fantastic entertainment kinda made up for dreary, over cautious and pedestrian play we’d seen virtually all season. A +1 goal difference reflects that. 

Based on deja vue, should City reach the play offs I predict we’ll see two cracking games of football.

[Judda]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I actually think we will beat Fulham Mark

Another Flaky side 

You realise we're at home for that one?!!!?!

[lenred]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The season would be a success simply based on SL wanting to see progress season on season.

Looking back to season when City reached the play off final the entire season up to the semifinals against Palace had been a mirror image of this one. No attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment.

However the two semis against Palace were fantastic entertainment kinda made up for dreary, over cautious and pedestrian play we’d seen virtually all season. A +1 goal difference reflects that. 

Based on deja vue, should City reach the play offs I predict we’ll see two cracking games of football.

We did have an identity in that we were scrappers who put it all on the line every single week, winning games by the finest of margins, very late on in games a lot of the time,  because of that will to win / never beaten attitude. That provided me with pride and was a type of entertainment in itself. I don’t see any of those qualities in this current set up. 

[extonsred]

Been supporting City longer than most - this season just seems to be yet another heading for the 'promised so much, achieved nothing box' and there have been so many of those. It has been and is still an excellent opportunity to finally progress to the PL and we might but on the evidence of current play that fills me with dread rather than excitement.

The argument that it is more competitive than a poorer standard is probably true -- but all teams need to adapt to the league changing from year to year and certainly we don't seem to mastered that. Yes we are 7th -- not long ago we were well in the mix - not only are the performances and results struggling but to get into the opposing teams penalty area and the number of shots we have compared to what I have seen of other teams is just shocking and very poor entertainment.

At this stage of our development and with money spent I want to see us as a team to be feared, one the pundits start to get talking about us as having some flair and flamboyance about our style of play.

Struggling 7th is not great and we are slowly being caught up by others entering the mix.  

[CityCiderEd]

The table tends to 'lie' about what position teams are in until the very end when it becomes the truth.Are we in a false position now? Some say we are,  some say we are 'punching above our weight', others think we are lucky.It could be a mixture of all 3. Personally I am astounded we are still 7th with everything still to play for.

[One Team In Keynsham]

7th place in what seems to be the shittiest Championship for years is not a great achievement, particularly when we could drop to mid-table in one round of fixtures. Even the top 2 are, IMO, not that great in absolute terms.

[ChippenhamRed]

Overall 7th would be marginal improvement in terms of incremental year-on-year progress up the league. That much is undeniable.

But would it be a good return on our continued investment, would it be par for this squad, and would it represent making the most of the opportunity this season with the division being distinctly average? No, no and no.