bcfc01 Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 49 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I actually think we will beat Fulham Mark Another Flaky side I thought that. But in the last 10 they've won 6, Drawn 3, and lost one and have drawn nine points clear of us. The one they lost was 0-3 at home to Barnsley and I think it was that result that made me think they were a bit flakey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said: For those remaining people who believe LJ is the man to move us forward and that being in 7th is progress, is this a valid point? Without having done any research, I feel like we find ourselves in 7th place because the league is so poor. It’s not like we are playing above ourselves and deserve to be there. We all know the standard of football, especially at home, is shocking and the lack of shots, especially on target, is a massive concern. If anyone who can be bothered, it would be interesting to see the points tally at this stage of the season vs the previous 5-10 seasons to see where we compare currently. It could be our points total is what would be expected from a team in 7th at this stage, although I would be surprised if there was a 4-6 point average difference. You can do the analysis here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=1&max=36 but I'll do some of it - interesting that WBA would not have been in the top two in any of the last four seasons with their current points total. This season 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, Robbored said: Based on deja vue, should City reach the play offs I predict we’ll see two cracking games of football. Three would better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 If the league is so poor why would everyone have taken top six finish at the start of the season? Most people weren't even predicting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Yes, would be my response too. Agreed. If anything this season we have gone backwards in terms of shape, style, stability of selection (I believe some would call that “identity”). The fact the head coach has to talk Every two or three weeks, about re-finding our identity every says it all. There’ll be an argument that 7th is progress - but there’s no prize for seventh and no guarantee that 6th or better will be achieved next year (if only football were that simple!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said: we're 7th mainly due to luck. Teams seem to bottle it the same time we do. Look at the table now and two losses for us could throw us down to 11th if results go the way of Cardiff, Swansea or Millwall. I would say though, our team isn't bad, I'd put it on par with that of PNE. But we are no where near the quality of the teams above us. Leeds, WBA, Brentford, Forest, Fulham are way better and I don't think we'll reach the level of these teams playing the football we are currently playing (unsure if that means getting rid of LJ or not). Perhaps that's an unpopular opinon but I think we're probably in the right place, especially considering home form So, if we lose our games and others win theirs - we will slip down the league..? Are you sure..? That’s quite a remarkable revelation..! Gar more scientific that seeing where teams are, based on points acclimated, over the course of a season (or part there of) that would just be wild speculation..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said: We are 7th is a fact, not an argument. tell you what is a pathetic argument, The “we are lucky” argument because people can’t think of anything better to say. After 36 games being 7th isn’t “luck”. Just another standard season in the championship where anyone can beat anyone. Read the responses from posters giving sensible debate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Wood Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Curr Avon said: Absolutely. And looking at our fixtures you wonder, where is our next win coming from? When do we play Hull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said: Good point about Leicester. Won the league with 81 points, whereas the average points to win the premier league is 86 (will increase further after Liverpool this season). This is what I am asking though. Where would we sit currently if there was an average points tally at this stage of the season? Not easy numbers to get hence why I haven’t bothered! We would sit where we are as it's how we have performed thus far and not to do with averages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Shtanley said: If the league is so poor why would everyone have taken top six finish at the start of the season? Most people weren't even predicting it. No one would of known how the season would shape up would they back in August .Its quite clear that the standard is lower this season apart from WBA and Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said: We are 7th is a fact, not an argument. tell you what is a pathetic argument, The “we are lucky” argument because people can’t think of anything better to say. After 36 games being 7th isn’t “luck”. Just another standard season in the championship where anyone can beat anyone. The Championship is poor this season, and so are we considering our playing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Fordy62 said: We haven’t drawn a lot of games. That always allows for us to be shitter. Not sure how that logic works? Inconsistent maybe, so shitter sometimes and decent other, but overall we've got the points we've got giving us the league position we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: No one would of known how the season would shape up would they back in August .Its quite clear that the standard is lower this season apart from WBA and Leeds .... including Leeds and WBA if you look at the evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacki Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Robbored said: The season would be a success simply based on SL wanting to see progress season on season. Looking back to season when City reached the play off final the entire season up to the semifinals against Palace had been a mirror image of this one. No attacking intent, no identity and no entertainment. However the two semis against Palace were fantastic entertainment kinda made up for dreary, over cautious and pedestrian play we’d seen virtually all season. A +1 goal difference reflects that. Based on deja vue, should City reach the play offs I predict we’ll see two cracking games of football. I’m not disagreeing about the quality of the football during the play off season v the quality of what we’re seeing now. We hung on in numerous games that season and were fortunate in a number of the games we won. I do think that season ‘felt’ different to this one though. We’d just come up, we were the crest of a wave and we were never out of the play off zone that season. In fact I remember a game v Stoke away late in the season that, had we won, would have put us in pole position for the automatic spots. Yes we were fortunate at times, and yes it wasn’t free flowing football a lot of the time, but it just felt fantastic to be a City fan that year. We were living the dream. This season feels completely different to me. LJ has been here for a while, we’re an established side in the second tier, and it feels like we’re going backwards not forwards. With our run in, and our wretched records against teams around and above us in the league many of whom we still have to play, I’ll be amazed if we make the play offs. And even if we do, the feeling around the place just isn’t the same. LJ’s role will no doubt be reviewed in the summer but it feels like we’re closer to the end than the beginning under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 48 minutes ago, CiderJar said: You can do the analysis here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=1&max=36 but I'll do some of it - interesting that WBA would not have been in the top two in any of the last four seasons with their current points total. This season 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 Very interesting. Showing that you'd not have been 7th on 54 points in the four preceding seasons, but also we're doing worse, points wise, at this stage of the season than in the last two. I don't think Johnson will be sacked this season, but if play continues as it does, we won't be 7th for much longer - and we could well finish lower than last season. And that will beg questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handballbygordonparr Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere recently but in an attempt to lift myself from the gloom caused by many of our recent performances, I had a quick look through the Championship tables since 2004 and found a couple of Stats that I'm sure many of you already now - but if not ...... The lowest number of points needed to reach the play-offs was 71 (Leicester in 2013) They did OK in the following couple of years. The lowest goal difference for a top 6 finish was Huddersfield (ironically -2) in 2017. They went on to win the play-offs without scoring a goal (1 own goal and two pen shoot outs) At first this cheered me up a bit, then I realised that if Lee knows this then maybe he doesn't think its necessarily worth creating goal scoring chances anymore if you can get by without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Judda said: What annoys me is that we were a joy to watch around the time we beat Man U. Nice passing attacking football. Pressing well etc... The style of play has gone backwards by about 5 years! This. He found a way to play then ballsed it up by not sticking to it. Plus he's always been too careful if we're leading. We're leading for a reason so stick with it. Don't sit back and try to defend a lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 It was very tight at the top before we got involved (2014/2015) .... but we're on a par with Forest from a couple of seasons before (2012/2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannybluff Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, extonsred said: Been supporting City longer than most - this season just seems to be yet another heading for the 'promised so much, achieved nothing box' and there have been so many of those. It has been and is still an excellent opportunity to finally progress to the PL and we might but on the evidence of current play that fills me with dread rather than excitement. I can't remember many seasons where we have been competing to achieve the top tier in the 30 years I've been watching us? 3 maybe? I agree with the sentiment... we probably won't... I mean there are a lot of teams aiming for the top 6... some are better than us... so even if we make it there are better teams so it is definitely unlikely... but that makes it exciting no? Say we were 17th? That would be non exciting... it's the chance to do something really good that spurs us on... and we have that chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 The desperation to find as many sticks to hit LJ with is laughable. And any positives are being regularly excused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, CiderJar said: You can do the analysis here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=1&max=36 but I'll do some of it - interesting that WBA would not have been in the top two in any of the last four seasons with their current points total. This season 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 Thanks. What a missed opportunity 17/18 was. The club/management were just out of their depth when it mattered most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted March 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, RedDave said: The desperation to find as many sticks to hit LJ with is laughable. And any positives are being regularly excused. Why go round trying to find sticks when Johnson keeps handing them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Vincent Vega said: This argument just doesn't stack up at all. We are 7th now because that's where we deserve to be. If we finish 15th in May its because that's where we deserve to be, nothing to do with the rest of the league. This could get quite philosophical, but we can't be both the 7th best team and also the 15th best team. When we were 3rd we deserved to be there but time has shown that we are certainly not the 3rd best team in this league. So when people talk about false league positions, I guess we could take that question to be, is this a position we're likely to finish in? My answer to that is, barely. As in we might just sneak 7th, but I wouldn't be shocked by 9th. It's getting to the point where I would be stunned if finish top 6, but a win v Fulham would change all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, mozo said: This could get quite philosophical, but we can't be both the 7th best team and also the 15th best team. When we were 3rd we deserved to be there but time has shown that we are certainly not the 3rd best team in this league. So when people talk about false league positions, I guess we could take that question to be, is this a position we're likely to finish in? My answer to that is, barely. As in we might just sneak 7th, but I wouldn't be shocked by 9th. It's getting to the point where I would be stunned if finish top 6, but a win v Fulham would change all that. Think my point was we (City ) are where we are on merit ( points collected) at this point. Come May that will probably (more than likely) change, but it will be what we deserve. You make a great point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, 054123 said: Thanks. What a missed opportunity 17/18 was. The club/management were just out of their depth when it mattered most. The punch we didn't want to land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 20 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said: Think my point was we (City ) are where we are on merit ( points collected) at this point. Come May that will probably (more than likely) change, but it will be what we deserve. You make a great point though. Agree 100%. Someone posted a while ago that we need to keep an eye on the teams around. My answer was simply "why ?" as it means not a jot to us. All that matters are our results and that will in turn dictate our table finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, BigTone said: Agree 100%. Someone posted a while ago that we need to keep an eye on the teams around. My answer was simply "why ?" as it means not a jot to us. All that matters are our results and that will in turn dictate our table finish. It is in our hands to make the playoffs. If we keep doing better than the teams below us we will probably need to beat Preston on the last day to make the spot our own . What an amazing time that would be to break the hoodoo the Knobenders have over us . Bring it on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: It is in our hands to make the playoffs. If we keep doing better than the teams below us we will probably need to beat Preston on the last day to make the spot our own . What an amazing time that would be to break the hoodoo the Knobenders have over us . Bring it on . Indeed HRH What does amaze me on here is the number of people who cite Brentford and what they have acheived on a small budget (is it still 3 points difference ?). Perceived by many on here as being a "minnow" of a club but who also forget they are currently building a new stadium etc etc so not hard to see where a lot of their money is being spent. No doubt some of the money made from transfers is being funnelled into this. Add to that the income they will receive from selling Griffin Park (lets remember we made diddly squat from selling AG) and I imagine they are doing quite nicely thank you very much. In my tiny mind they come across as a club very similar to ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 hours ago, RedDave said: The desperation to find as many sticks to hit LJ with is laughable. And any positives are being regularly excused. It’s not desperation. You tell me why I feel so deflated after yesterday, when we sit in 7th position. I like to think I’m as rational as the next bloke, others feel the same way, who are decent posters on OTIB too. This isn’t just a swarming (no busy bee pun intended) of “LJ Out’ers”....it’s genuine concern. What are the positives? We got a point yesterday? Any others? If that was a “performance we can build on”, we’ve lowered the bar massively. Had he said “that was a result we can build on” I could get my head around that. But if he thinks “a performance to build on” is creating hardly any changes, hardly keeping the ball (beyond playing it around the back 4 to increase our possession stats to 49%) whilst allowing a team like MIllwall to create endless pressure, then I can’t agree. Why not provide the counter-argument, persuade me to alter my opinion, rather than just poo-pooh our posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Judda said: What annoys me is that we were a joy to watch around the time we beat Man U. Nice passing attacking football. Pressing well etc... The style of play has gone backwards by about 5 years! We had Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan then, they were quality that season. The reason we're treading water is trying to replace the good players we've sold. New players take time to integrate into the team even if they're good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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