Don't know the value of someone till they are gone

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seems a decent squad tbh. Players like Vyner, Rowe able to cover more than one position. O'Dowda or Paterson too depending on who we keep. 

Eliasson, Palmer and Diedhiou sold? Big calls but maybe- think I'd keep Eliasson IF he wanted a new deal at a fair price as I could see him in a 4-3-3. Think Watkins deal runs to 2021 unless we'd cut our losses a bit early. 

Agree with the idea of a foundation though then build from there. Problem maybe finding buyers in a dampened market given his form this season for say O'Dowda and maybe Paterson.

Yeah, huge assumptions:

1. Eliasson, rumoured to not wanting to sign a new deal, so maximise summer value
2. Diedhiou, one year left too.  Will get reasonable value
3. Watkins, also one year left, but different reasons.

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I feel your pain.

 

Quite how, after 4 years of the same manager we are in such a mess is bewildering. 

You have a playing system, maybe two, and you have the best players you can afford to deliver that system. You sell at the right time and buy the best available player with all the attributes to fill that position within the team system.

The fault line seems to exists with LJ having a multitude of seemingly incoherent systems and MA buying random players with perceived potential but with no regard to any system. 

Agree mostly though I think quite a lot of the players are good enough. Just not necessarily under the current management.

[Super]

Never replaced Gary Shelton.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

But just imagine an 21 man squad of the following going into 20/21....bit of license, but just go with it for now, you’ll disagree with some:

Bentley | O’Leary (2)

Hunt | Vyner | Kalas | Baker | Moore | Dasilva | Rowe (7)

O’Dowda | Nagy | Massengo | Smith | Paterson | Szmodics | Morrell | Walsh (8)

Weimann | Wells | Afobe | Semenyo (4)

As your foundation for the start of the summer.  You probably make a call re who out of Pato, Szmodics and O’Dowda you keep, might be 1 or 2, but not all 3.

I’m assuming Eliasson Palmer and Diedhiou will be sold, Watkins released along with Williams, Mäenpää, Taylor and Wright out of contract.

then supplement with:

Wollacott (Gilmartin as coach), Pring, J.Smith, Bakinson, Janneh.  The likelihood of needing them regularly is Los, but they are training with the group, learning the system, learning from the first teamers.  When needed, they are ready.

That’s the way I’d approach the summer.  The sales will cover losses / FFP....the purchase of Afobe (assume fit).  Decide on your system and adjust from there.

 

Quite like the look of that, swap out Paterson for Palmer, and even though I think Morrell could add a little bite maybe a 'destroyer' type midfielder and I think that squad looks decent.  All pointless unless we either have a new head coach, or the one we have now has a major direction change though. There are good technical footballers through the squad, and yet we can't retain possession or pass with any success .

42 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Quite how, after 4 years of the same manager we are in such a mess is bewildering. 

When Lansdown backed LJ originally , and all the angry voices went a little quiet it made sense. Give a manager/coach time to build and organise the squad into a unit through the ages. But as the first team doesn't look as though they know what they are trying to achieve , the academy sides are hardly likely too.

[RedRock]

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Technique vs physique?

How physically imposing in midfield are WBA, Leeds, Brentford, Fulham? I know it's not all about height and bulk physicality but by the same token, it can be overstated these days, at good levels. 

Intense bursts of or structured variants of pressing. That can be a form of physicality.

Wouldn’t disagree, but you need the best of the crop for sustained high level performance with that type of player.

Our strategy is to sell at/near peak and recruit youngsters. It won’t work... the (supposed) technically inferior but physical Blackburn’s, Millwall’s... and the list goes on just roll us over. 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I wouldn’t, i was thinking someone else might be in place.

Regarding that overhaul, though, if it was regarded as ultimately being bad enough to get LJ sacked, wouldn’t Ashton have to go too?

[t_b]

6 hours ago, where's the joy said:

2 Tried harder to keep the likes of Bryan, Reid, Webster, Kodjia, Brownhill, Kelly, even Flint, by really going for promotion.

Can't agree with this.

If we had kept Kodjia, Reid wouldn't have played and had his stand-out season. If Flint didn't go, Webster wouldn't have signed. Without Bryan leaving, Kelly wouldn't have come on as much etc etc. 

Bryan looked - may not have been but 'looked' it - disinterested post League Cup run, what benefit do we get from forcing players to stay? A reputation of a club who don't work as a stepping stone for players. There aren't many players in the game who will see us as their final career club... anyone joining us now will aim to get promoted and/or move on to a PL team. If we start playing hard with players and retaining them against their will then further "up and coming" players won't join us except for money - entirely the wrong squad ethos.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Wouldn’t disagree, but you need the best of the crop for sustained high level performance with that type of player.

Our strategy is to sell at/near peak and recruit youngsters. It won’t work... the (supposed) technically inferior but physical Blackburn’s, Millwall’s... and the list goes on just roll us over. 

How we set up and more importantly our mindset certainly plays a role though, I think.

Think eg Bielsa or Frank could certainly get more out of our squad, or more specifically midfield.

Bilic too maybe but West Brom's style can be a bit more mixed than Brentford or Leeds- he also has access to greater resources and though top, WBA don't strike me as that convincing at times.

Is Klich wildly better than Nagy or Dallas who can play CM sharply superior to Massengo? Unsure they are, or perhaps note accurately that there's a huge difference in quality. 

Phillips is excellent clearly. 

[RedRock]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How we set up and more importantly our mindset certainly plays a role though, I think.

Think eg Bielsa or Frank could certainly get more out of our squad, or more specifically midfield.

Is Klich wildly better than Nagy or Dallas who can play CM sharply superior to Massengo? Unsure they are, or perhaps note accurately that there's a huge difference in quality. 

Phillips is excellent clearly. 

Set up and mindset important too... but still can’t help thinking that our midfield is way to lightweight, particularly when you add in two small full backs to the equation. 

LJ really has taken the size/height doesn’t matter theory to the absolute extreme. 

[Guest]

To counter, some players move on and don't realise they'll never have the success they've had till they are gone.

Maynard and Basso spring to mind for some reason or other.