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Interesting comments from LJ...


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10 minutes ago, David Brent said:

No chance would he walk away

I don’t know. I think his dejection is starting to show lately. I think he knows deep down that there’s a degree of ‘nothing will be good enough’ here so unless we have an absolutely stellar season where we over achieve to a ridiculous degree, he’ll get pelters.

At best we have a lower top six squad. We’re two points off 6th with 10 to play and there are genuine calls for him to be sacked. I wonder if the most fervent or those voices have ever stopped to think how absurd that actually is in the wider context, or how crazy they’d think that was at any other club of our size. 

I do get an element of the ‘entertainment versus league position’ argument, but it’s a results business. And the result of this season is as yet to be confirmed. Only at the end of the season can an objective assessment of performance be made. 

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does. I think it’s in his own interest to pursue a new challenge. 

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3 hours ago, Riaz said:

 

I'm an accountant, so clearly, i know that in the accounts there are other costs.

And i'm fully aware that bristol city, like most clubs are a loss making entity.

Whether the club is losing money or not tho. For what LJ can control, he is in credit. He has sold way more than he has spent. People should remember that.

Your post assumes Johnson 'controls' the 'ins and outs' at the club. So as an accountant you realise any 'like for like' comparison includes the whole of the lifecycle costs for such contacts. That's why they're reflected that way in the accounts. Each player he signs (from an accounting perspective) is a total liability. Many players are also from a playing perspective, total liabilities. Other than where insured otherwise,  players are, de facto, worthless other than if somebody might later pay to acquire their services and only then if their registration remains in possession of the club. Both are pretty big 'ifs' post Bosman. Consider that and nowhere near is Johnson in credit. 

As an accountant you'll have spotted our wage bill exceeds turnover. Those contractural liabilities fall whether those contracted are required to work or not. You'll have spotted the lifetime contract value of much of the dross Johnson's signed far exceeds any 'transfer value' (sic). If Johnson signs a player for £1m and sells him for £1m two years later having not found a place for him in the side, that's not zero net spend - it's a loss of over £1.5m for the £15k per week we've paid them for the privilege.

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Your post assumes Johnson 'controls' the 'ins and outs' at the club. So as an accountant you realise any 'like for like' comparison includes the whole of the lifecycle costs for such contacts. That's why they're reflected that way in the accounts. Each player he signs (from an accounting perspective) is a total liability. Many players are also from a playing perspective, total liabilities. Other than where insured otherwise,  players are, de facto, worthless other than if somebody might later pay to acquire their services and only then if their registration remains in possession of the club. Both are pretty big 'ifs' post Bosman. Consider that and nowhere near is Johnson in credit. 

As an accountant you'll have spotted our wage bill exceeds turnover. Those contractural liabilities fall whether those contracted are required to work or not. You'll have spotted the lifetime contract value of much of the dross Johnson's signed far exceeds any 'transfer value' (sic). If Johnson signs a player for £1m and sells him for £1m two years later having not found a place for him in the side, that's not zero net spend - it's a loss of over £1.5m for the £15k per week we've paid him for the privilege.

But i'm looking at this from a football point of view.

When managers dont spend anything on transfer fees, people dont speak about the wages spent.

If you included that in the analysing managers performance in transfer market, no manager in history would be "in credit" ?

Saying he has a big wage budget at his disposal, is a very fair comment, but to add in wages, is totally disingenuous

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15 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does.

At any other club he wouldn't have been given the resource, latitude and abiding patience he's been afforded here.  Lest not forget, he haan't actually achieved anything in his career, playing or managerial. Johnson and his P45 would have been out of the door years back.

And before anybody goes down 'highly touted', 'next great thing' route, here's a couple of names from the past who had pretty much the same said of them but who quickly fell into the 'where are they now category':

Danny Wilson

Steve Cotterill

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53 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Webster was never pretty average and whoever identified him as a signing deserves a lot of credit, particularly for the price we paid. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Nick, but it was Lee Johnson!

LJ would let Flint go on the basis SL delivered Webster as his replacement. He was no. 1 on LJ's list of replacements.

The medical team/strength and conditioning team also deserve a lot of credit though, they put Webster on a special training regime which got him into the best shape he'd been in his entire career. 

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1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

....I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either...

Warnock doesn’t have a record number of promotions from the championship to his name - Steve Bruce has more ...

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1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

And I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either.

 

55 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Well yes, that's typical - several posters demolish your point with basic facts but, despite it all, you can't face it so try and brazen it out with yet more fake news and untruths.

Which is a classic example of why the internet should never have been invented in the first place and in my view is - on balance - a force for no good.

 

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Warnock doesn’t have a record number of promotions from the championship to his name - Steve Bruce has more ...

God bless the internet. 

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7 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Saying he has a big wage budget at his disposal, is a very fair comment, but to add in wages, is totally disingenuous

Then all I can say is with that logic I'm thankful you aren't my accountant.

You're also incorrect in stating all managers would fail the credit test. Many of the 'big' clubs today, their assets (tangible and non-tangible,) are the result of extraordinary managers taking them to that level. As and example: Forbes estimate Liverpool to be worth somewhere in the region of £2bn following their World Club Champions success. That's quite a sum for the lower half of the second tier side of my youth and owes everything to a succession of great managers who advanced that club beyond all recognition.

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6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

he haan't actually achieved anything in his career

How many championship managers have?

Mowbray, Bowyer (Player),  Cocu, Parker (player), Bielsa, Woodgate (player), Neil (promotion with parachute payments), Bilic

so perhaps a third of the teams have a manager have a team who has achieved something as a player or manager, so its not like the division is swarming with managers who have won something or got a promotion

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11 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

At any other club he wouldn't have been given the resource, latitude and abiding patience he's been afforded here.  Lest not forget, he haan't actually achieved anything in his career, playing or managerial. Johnson and his P45 would have been out of the door years back.

And before anybody goes down 'highly touted', 'next great thing' route, here's a couple of names from the past who had pretty much the same said of them but who quickly fell into the 'where are they now category':

Danny Wilson

Steve Cotterill

That’s not particularly relevant. That’s SL’S decision rightly or wrongly. Based on the latest available figures were roughly mid table wage wise. All else being equal, delivering 7th is over achieving. 

There’s only one team above us that you can make an inarguable case that we should be outperforming and that’s Preston. So one team that shouldn’t be doing better than us, is. And we’re seriously talking about him deserving to be sacked. It’s madness IMO. 
 

If lists are your thing, here’s a list of managers in my lifetime (I’m 34) who have delivered a higher league position, that isn’t called Johnson:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(End of list) 

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Then all I can say is with that logic I'm thankful you aren't my accountant.

Again, I'll repeat, I'm not looking at this from an accounting point of view. Whoever does that when analysing a manager in the transfer market.

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

You're also incorrect in stating all managers would fail the credit test. Many of the 'big' clubs today, their assets (tangible and non-tangible,) are the result of extraordinary managers taking them to that level. As and example: Forbes estimate Liverpool to be worth somewhere in the region of £2bn following their World Club Champions success. That's quite a sum for the lower half of the second tier side of my youth and owes everything to a succession of great managers who advanced that club beyond all recognition.

Oh well done, you've mentioned the exception to the rule ? 99.99% of all managers then ?‍♂️

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If lists are your thing, here’s a list of managers in my lifetime (I’m 34) who have delivered a higher league position, that isn’t called Johnson:

That's the same list as those managers who've spent more than Johnson to achieve that position.

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Whoever does that when analysing a manager in the transfer market

I'd imagine the shareholders would take a close interest.

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20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

At any other club he wouldn't have been given the resource, latitude and abiding patience he's been afforded here.  Lest not forget, he haan't actually achieved anything in his career, playing or managerial. Johnson and his P45 would have been out of the door years back.

And before anybody goes down 'highly touted', 'next great thing' route, here's a couple of names from the past who had pretty much the same said of them but who quickly fell into the 'where are they now category':

Danny Wilson

Steve Cotterill

Johnson could take a few tips from Danny Wilson and playing good attacking football! 

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2 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

Johnson could take a few tips from Danny Wilson and playing good attacking football! 

Yeah because he should take tips from a manager who could'nt get us out of league one ?‍♂️

When were a massive club at that level.

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4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

That's the same list as those managers who've spent more than Johnson to achieve that position.

I'd imagine the shareholders would take a close interest.

This is such a weak argument. Football finances have accelerated uncontrollably across the board. People act like LJ exists in his own bubble where we’re the only paying more than they used to for transfers. 

Comparing what LJ spends in 2020 with Cotts spent in 2015, in the context of our accelerating revenues and the market conditions, is about as relevant as comparing the price of a 3 bed semi in London to a bedsit in Wigan. 

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1 minute ago, scrumpy88 said:

Oh yeah forgot all about what Johnson has achieved as a manger 

Saved us from relegation and turned us from relegation battlers to play-off chasers.

Danny Wilson failed.

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11 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Saved us from relegation and turned us from relegation battlers to play-off chasers.

Danny Wilson failed.

It’s actually crazy that there are people who think he hasn’t achieved anything.

The irony is it’ll be the same people that say ‘results aren’t everything’ are using a lack of ‘results’ (ie promotion) to suit their argument. 

We have come a long way since LJ took over and I can’t believe for a minute that there’s any way you can’t see that unless you’re wilfully ignoring it. 

‘Enough to take us any further?’ is a completely separate argument, but to say he’s achieved nothing or failed is simply insulting. It’s that viewpoint that would have me saying ‘**** them’ and looking for something else where at least the overall picture will be considered objectively. 

I’d love to see the correlation between those who didn’t like him as a player and those who take this hard line viewpoint. I imagine it’s very strong. I don’t think he’ll ever get over that prejudice that he faced as a player here even now, which was a concern of mine when he was appointed. 

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1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It’s actually crazy that there are people who thing he hasn’t achieved anything.

The same people that say ‘results aren’t everything’ are using a lack of ‘results’ (ie promotion) to suit their argument. 

We have come a long way since LJ took over and I can’t believe for a minute that there’s any way you can’t see that unless you’re wilfully ignoring it. 

‘Enough to take us any further?’ is a completely separate argument, but to say he’s achieved nothing or failed is simply insulting. It’s that viewpoint that would have me saying ‘**** them’ and looking for something else where at least the overall picture will be considered objectively. 

Exactly this.

Saying he wont get us promotion is a fair opinion.

But at least give credit where its due.

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6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

This is such a weak argument. Football finances have accelerated uncontrollably across the board. People act like LJ exists in his own bubble where we’re the only paying more than they used to for transfers. 

Comparing what LJ spends in 2020 with Cotts spent in 2015, in the context of our accelerating revenues and the market conditions, is about as relevant as comparing the price of a 3 bed semi in London to a bedsit in Wigan. 

The relevance in the comparison is should somebody have purchased outright and for a relative pittance a bedsit in Wigan when they lost their job or retired, they'd have a roof over their head. Should they have spent a fortune they didn't have to rent a 3 bed semi in London, when in an identical position they'd rapidly become homeless.

It's an age thing. Prudence. Many of us old 'uns get criticised for being well-off, comfortable, for not having accumulated masses of debt. And whilst I've every sympathy for yung 'uns being burdened with State imposed debt I've no sympathy for a prevalent attitude of 'live now pay later' (invariably meaning I'll let somebody else pick up debt of my making.) That's why the unprecedented levels of spend Johnson has incurred ARE relevent. He's spent, spent badly, delivered little in return (including entertainment) and other than us having a most benevolent benefactor he would have gone a long way toward finishing this club off.

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It’s actually crazy that there are people who thing he hasn’t achieved anything.

The same people that say ‘results aren’t everything’ are using a lack of ‘results’ (ie promotion) to suit their argument. 

We have come a long way since LJ took over and I can’t believe for a minute that there’s any way you can’t see that unless you’re wilfully ignoring it. 

‘Enough to take us any further?’ is a completely separate argument, but to say he’s achieved nothing or failed is simply insulting. It’s that viewpoint that would have me saying ‘**** them’ and looking for something else where at least the overall picture will be considered objectively. 

Yep. I am well onto the LJ out side. That said you can’t discredit what he has done for this club. Imo, to move forward he needs to go but he has 100% got me to this level of thinking where the club can be a lot more. 
 

I also think him and the staff are brilliant coaches in terms of development. I think most of the young transfers have gotten much better with the odd dud here and there. For me LJ would be a brilliant assistant at any level but imo not quite up to management standards for this league or higher(can say that about a lot of the managers in this league). Maybe he is a slow grower and proves it one day. I won’t discount it but for now I don’t think he has shown enough growth in his match day management to continue moving this club forward. 
 

Again, he has done a lot of work to get us here and that should not be forgotten. 

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

So indulge me - what exactly has Johnson achieved?

He saved us from relegation

He delivered a top half finish - something only managers with the name Johnson has been able to acheive at this club since 1992.

Improved league position every year, despite losing his best player or players every summer.

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22 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It’s actually crazy that there are people who think he hasn’t achieved anything.

The irony is it’ll be the same people that say ‘results aren’t everything’ are using a lack of ‘results’ (ie promotion) to suit their argument. 

We have come a long way since LJ took over and I can’t believe for a minute that there’s any way you can’t see that unless you’re wilfully ignoring it. 

‘Enough to take us any further?’ is a completely separate argument, but to say he’s achieved nothing or failed is simply insulting. It’s that viewpoint that would have me saying ‘**** them’ and looking for something else where at least the overall picture will be considered objectively. 

I’d love to see the correlation between those who didn’t like him as a player and those who take this hard line viewpoint. I imagine it’s very strong. I don’t think he’ll ever get over that prejudice that he faced as a player here even now, which was a concern of mine when he was appointed. 

I totally concur with the abuse such as the twitter sh** you’ve posted

As for your staunch defence , am I incorrect thinking that you wanted a change some weeks back ?
Have you changed again ?

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