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Interesting comments from LJ...


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2 hours ago, Riaz said:

Wages and agents fees do come into it, but the club are in a much healthier financial position since LJ has been in charge, you cant deny that.

Of course, Mark Ashton takes some credit too, for his negiotiating skills, but LJ is the person who has overseen the coaching of these players

 

I’d suggest that the people who deserve credit for any apparent ‘healthier financial position ‘ starts and rests pretty firmly at the feet of Steve Lansdown

Firstly for his financial propping and underpinning , and for his considerable investment in the infrastructure (Stadium) and thus a considerable improvement in terms of revenue in respect of things such as hospitality and catering

Seeing some figures the other day one , and from a financial perspective , could argue Mark Kelly is possibly £ for £ value the best performing employee at the Club. 
 

LJ certainly isn’t 

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20 minutes ago, Riaz said:

He saved us from relegation

He delivered a top half finish - something only managers with the name Johnson has been able to acheive at this club since 1992.

Improved league position every year, despite losing his best player or players every summer.

Apart from that , what has Lee Johnson ever done for Bristol City ? 

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23 minutes ago, Riaz said:

He saved us from relegation

He delivered a top half finish - something only managers with the name Johnson has been able to acheive at this club since 1992.

Improved league position every year, despite losing his best player or players every summer.

League cup semi final while knocking out man utd in the process, how many championship managers have managed similar?

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’d suggest that the people who deserve credit for any apparent ‘healthier financial position ‘ rest pretty firmly at the feet of Steve Lansdown

Firstly for his financial propping and underpinning , and for his considerable investment in the infrastructure (Stadium) and a considerable improvement in terms of revenue in respect of things such as hospitality and catering

Seeing some figures the other day one , and from a financial perspective , could argue Mark Kelly is possibly £ for £ the best performing employee at the Club. 
 

LJ certainly isn’t 

Dear oh dear.

You just refuse to give him any credit dont you?

The last set of accounts we made a profit for the first time in how long?? Overall the profit was £10.95m

The PROFIT on players disposal in that period was £38.2m

And the manager who had been in charge for 3 years, had zero impact on that???

Really?????

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5 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Dear oh dear.

You just refuse to give him any credit dont you?

The last set of accounts we made a profit for the first time in how long?? Overall the profit was £10.95m

The PROFIT on players disposal in that period was £38.2m

And the manager who had been in charge for 3 years, had zero impact on that???

Really?????

Yes 

Really

The same as your desperate defences of him , using selective parts of the picture are amusing

We have a group of fans who seem to support Lee Johnson , Not the Club

I have , and will praise , question or criticise whoever the manager / head coach is where I think justified

In all my years I’ve never known a infatuation with a Manager that some currently have - Bizarre 

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I think the point that @Riaz is trying to make is simply that despite people claiming time and time again that Johnson has been "backed more than any other City manager ever", the club have received more in transfer fees than they have spent during his time as manager. 

I would have thought that was a fairly straightforward (and easily proven) argument, so not sure why we need to delve deeply in to the accounts or be a qualified accountant to take part in this discussion? :dunno:

If you have queries regarding whether you believe he has spent money wisely, or his treatment of the players he has signed, that's another discussion completely, which is totally unrelated to the point being made.

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes 

Really

The same as your desperate defences of him , using selective parts of the picture are amusing

We have a group of fans who seem to support Lee Johnson , Not the Club

No, there are many criticisms of lee johnson that are legitimate and i agree with. I just feel the positives outweigh them,

There are also opinions i respect, but dont agree with. Like, those that say Lee Johnson wont take us up. I think he will, but its a fair opinion, which only time will tell.

But what your doing is discrediting everything and giving credit to everyone but him really undermines your points you are making.

2 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

I think the point that @Riaz is trying to make is simply that despite people claiming time and time again that Johnson has been "backed more than any other City manager ever", the club have received more in transfer fees than they have spent during his time as manager. 

I would have thought that was a fairly straightforward (and easily proven) argument, so not sure why we need to delve deeply in to the accounts or be a qualified accountant to take part in this discussion? :dunno:

If you have queries regarding whether you believe he has spent money wisely, or his treatment of the players he has signed, that's another discussion completely, which is totally unrelated to the point being made.

Exactly this.

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1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I don’t know. I think his dejection is starting to show lately. I think he knows deep down that there’s a degree of ‘nothing will be good enough’ here so unless we have an absolutely stellar season where we over achieve to a ridiculous degree, he’ll get pelters.

At best we have a lower top six squad.

I agree, we are in that broad group of teams of similar ability (Squad-wise) that are probably 4/5th to 10th. We are kind of mid-table in that group.  There are some teams, eg Derby, Stoke, Boro massively underperforming.

We’re two points off 6th with 10 to play and there are genuine calls for him to be sacked. I wonder if the most fervent or those voices have ever stopped to think how absurd that actually is in the wider context, or how crazy they’d think that was at any other club of our size.

That is always my sanity check.  I’m pretty critical of LJ, but mainly from a point I think he ought to get more out of what he has, but I am in no way “LJ Out”.  I do have my views on what I’d like him to improve to remove some of my criticism.

I do get an element of the ‘entertainment versus league position’ argument, but it’s a results business. And the result of this season is as yet to be confirmed. Only at the end of the season can an objective assessment of performance be made.

I agree, rather be 7th and in the mix with four football than 12th playing open football.  Even during 17/18 we were attritional for long periods, but it was high tempo, and that gave an element of excitement.

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does. I think it’s in his own interest to pursue a new challenge.

I think you to live and breathe another club to know whether that’s true or not.

Comments above.

53 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Again, I'll repeat, I'm not looking at this from an accounting point of view. Whoever does that when analysing a manager in the transfer market.

People who understand that “net spend” is not very good / true method of evaluating a manager’s performance ??‍♂️ In the modern game 

Oh well done, you've mentioned the exception to the rule ? 99.99% of all managers then ?‍♂️

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

 

People who understand that “net spend” is not very good / true method of evaluating a manager’s performance ??‍♂️ In the modern game 

 

Its one part of looking how he's done.

Also when people say he's been backed more than any other manager its not true - he's only spent what the club has earned in transfer fees. With a bit spare.

My overall evaluation would be that he's slowly improving us, while losing his best players constantly, while having a negative net spend.

I'm sure there are chairmen of other clubs out looking at the job he is doing here favourably,

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58 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

The relevance in the comparison is should somebody have purchased outright and for a relative pittance a bedsit in Wigan when they lost their job or retired, they'd have a roof over their head. Should they have spent a fortune they didn't have to rent a 3 bed semi in London, when in an identical position they'd rapidly become homeless.

It's an age thing. Prudence. Many of us old 'uns get criticised for being well-off, comfortable, for not having accumulated masses of debt. And whilst I've every sympathy for yung 'uns being burdened with State imposed debt I've no sympathy for a prevalent attitude of 'live now pay later' (invariably meaning I'll let somebody else pick up debt of my making.) That's why the unprecedented levels of spend Johnson has incurred ARE relevent. He's spent, spent badly, delivered little in return (including entertainment) and other than us having a most benevolent benefactor he would have gone a long way toward finishing this club off.

I cannot take this seriously when you finish it up with that absolute nonsense. 

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16 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

I think the point that @Riaz is trying to make is simply that despite people claiming time and time again that Johnson has been "backed more than any other City manager ever", the club have received more in transfer fees than they have spent during his time as manager.

But “backing” is wider than net spend!  The wage bill has grown 60% in Tge first three of his four years here (and that’s without this seasons new players as we will have to wait for 19/20s accounts) and the commitment to amortised contracts (yes I know it’s boring) has gone up 250% in the same time.

I would have thought that was a fairly straightforward (and easily proven) argument, so not sure why we need to delve deeply in to the accounts or be a qualified accountant to take part in this discussion? :dunno:
 

if you want to take a simplistic view that is fine, but acknowledge the fact that it might be flawed as a way if defining his success.  It’s a good starting point.

If you have queries regarding whether you believe he has spent money wisely, or his treatment of the players he has signed, that's another discussion completely, which is totally unrelated to the point being made.

Please see above. 

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43 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I totally concur with the abuse such as the twitter sh** you’ve posted

As for your staunch defence , am I incorrect thinking that you wanted a change some weeks back ?
Have you changed again ?

I’m not going to pretend I haven’t had emotional post match reactions but there’s a huge difference between pulling people up on hyperbolic nonsense and ‘staunch defence’. 

FWIW I’m not a defender/fanboy of Johnson at all. I think he makes a lot of mistakes and often doesn’t seem to learn from them. But sitting here completely objectively, he’s doing at the very worst an average job. 

I think for the purposes of fan unity and his own wellbeing, we should part ways in the summer, barring a miracle, but so I think he deserves to be sacked for poor performance? No, absolutely not. 

If we were to part ways, I’d have absolutely no faith whatsoever that what’s to come will be better, as the ‘anyone but Johnson’ camp think. 

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Comments above.

 

All fair comments Dave. My comment about not getting this level of flack elsewhere is purely down to the fact that his time as a player here was divisive, and there’s absolutely a large element who have never got past that and simply refuse to consider his time here objectively. 

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33 minutes ago, hodge said:

League cup semi final while knocking out man utd in the process, how many championship managers have managed similar?

That was fantastic but who can , hand on heart , say we’ve advanced since then ? 
 

We’ve gone from ‘ hit ‘ to ‘ shit ‘ faster than you can say ‘ identity ‘ . 
 

We need a ‘ reboot ‘. 

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36 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

I think the point that @Riaz is trying to make is simply that despite people claiming time and time again that Johnson has been "backed more than any other City manager ever", the club have received more in transfer fees than they have spent during his time as manager. 

Yes the club have received more in transfer fees. Agreed.

But it does NOT disprove the first point - that Johnson has been backed more than any other City manager ever!!!!!!!

Why?

Because - as too many people have had to explain - when you factor in wages etc etc etc, the whole financial picture indicates he HAS been backed more.

But in the face of these numerous explanations he responds with yet more bollux. As per.

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2 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

What cracks me up about people having a pop about Johnson and spend, are the same people who were crying out for us to sign those players in the first place! 
Who's wages do you think increased the wage percentage....

Kala - Everyone was DESPERATE for him to sign
Dasilva - Everyone wanted him to sign 
Wells - Everyone was desperate for him to sign
Afobe - Rejected by the fans but was worth every penny. 

So, I don't get that argument.  People cry and cry and cry about signing these top end players, then blame Johnson for the wage increase for the players that they (the fans) wanted.  Mental. 

?????????

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The "losing your best player every summer" thing - this is instead of the old (Bristol City) thing, where you didn't sell your best player when you could've got a good fee for him, instead holding on to an increasingly resentful player who decides to see out his contract and see his form drop off a cliff in the meantime (whilst shipping his offspring out of the areal for fear of the crippling cost of future corrective elocution lessons for said sprogs; if only supporters knew what was going on in players' lives/inhibiting their ability to pass to each other and run around...), and the club are left without the funds to buy in reasonable replacements.

Or, you sell Andy Cole, and you get Ian Baird.

 

Most of the time, let's be clear, you get/have Ian Baird.

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2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes the club have received more in transfer fees. Agreed.

But it does NOT disprove the first point - that Johnson has been backed more than any other City manager ever!!!!!!!

Why?

Because - as too many people have had to explain - when you factor in wages etc etc etc, the whole financial picture indicates he HAS been backed more.

 

But then he has lost more in terms of quality players than any other manager, so he's often replacing our best players!

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38 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes 

Really

The same as your desperate defences of him , using selective parts of the picture are amusing

We have a group of fans who seem to support Lee Johnson , Not the Club

I have , and will praise , question or criticise whoever the manager / head coach is where I think justified

In all my years I’ve never known a infatuation with a Manager that some currently have - Bizarre 

I don’t believe that’s true at all. I’ve never met anyone ‘infatuated’ with Johnson. I think the overwhelming majority of us fall into your point about ‘have and will praise/criticise whoever the manager is’ 

I’ve met lots who simply refuse to give him any credit whatsoever but I don’t think I’ve ever come across anyone who thinks he’s absolutely brilliant at everything. I think even the loudest ‘balanced’ voices, for want of a better term, would be able to list a number of faults. 

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2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes the club have received more in transfer fees. Agreed.

But it does NOT disprove the first point - that Johnson has been backed more than any other City manager ever!!!!!!!

Why?

Because - as too many people have had to explain - when you factor in wages etc etc etc, the whole financial picture indicates he HAS been backed more.

 

But its a causality, if we hadn't been receiving more than we ever had Johnson wouldn't have had so much to spend. Its not like we've just allowed him to spend and spend without sacrifice either, he's had to replace that which he's lost at the same time so the expectation of rapid improvement because of his spend is also harder because all the money can't just go on improving the rest of the squad.

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

All fair comments Dave. My comment about not getting this level of flack elsewhere is purely down to the fact that his time as a player here was divisive, and there’s absolutely a large element who have never got past that and simply refuse to consider his time here objectively. 

Not completely accurate ;

This has been done many times before but I believe that we were misled by the club into thinking that we were looking for the ‘ best ‘ coach out there but brought in , in an indecent hurry , a man who , whilst a promising young coach , had achieved the sum total of nothing in his fledgling career. 
 

It looked very much like a ‘ comfort ‘ signing and a step back from the edgy , driving force that was Cotts . 
 

Add that into the mix and it is no wonder that he struggles, even today, to unite the fan base. 
 

There is always the suspicion that there’s someone better than LJ who can take the club by the boot straps and get us into the Prem whilst playing sexy football. 
 

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4 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

The "losing your best player every summer" thing - this is instead of the old (Bristol City) thing, where you didn't sell your best player when you could've got a good fee for him, instead holding on to an increasingly resentful player who decides to see out his contract and see his form drop off a cliff in the meantime (whilst shipping his offspring out of the areal for fear of the crippling cost of future corrective elocution lessons for said sprogs; if only supporters knew what was going on in players' lives/inhibiting their ability to pass to each other and run around...), and the club are left without the funds to buy in reasonable replacements.

Or, you sell Andy Cole, and you get Ian Baird.

 

Most of the time, let's be clear, you get/have Ian Baird.

*cough* Nicky Maynard *cough* 7m would have been useful

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14 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

All fair comments Dave. My comment about not getting this level of flack elsewhere is purely down to the fact that his time as a player here was divisive, and there’s absolutely a large element who have never got past that and simply refuse to consider his time here objectively. 

Possibly, possibly not. What about the people on here who rated him as a player? The reverse could be true.

I only saw him play 45 minutes live so I’m Agnostic!!!

 

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4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

There is always the suspicion that there’s someone better than LJ who can take the club by the boot straps and get us into the Prem whilst playing sexy football.

However that's more than likely a unicorn on the date/marry scale

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7 minutes ago, hodge said:

But its a causality, if we hadn't been receiving more than we ever had Johnson wouldn't have had so much to spend. Its not like we've just allowed him to spend and spend without sacrifice either, he's had to replace that which he's lost at the same time so the expectation of rapid improvement because of his spend is also harder because all the money can't just go on improving the rest of the squad.

Yes it is a causality but it doesn't change the point - he's been backed more than any other manager in City's history when you look at the WHOLE picture, not just transfer fees in and out.

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2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I agree with you, yes he has.

But it's not the point we were arguing!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Its the point i'm making when people are saying he's been backed more than any other manager.

Reason being, other managers havent lose their best player on such a regular basis and it needs to be taken into account.

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3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes it is a causality but it doesn't change the point - he's been backed more than any other manager in City's history when you look at the WHOLE picture, not just transfer fees in and out.

He's the first manager/head coach we've had since a boom in finances both in terms of our club and in terms of divisional spending so its hardly a surprise he's had more to spend than others, the telling thing will be whoever comes after and if they're allowed to spend similar, but until then its hard to compare him to those who came before because they simply didn't have the resources available, you think Cotts, McInnes or GJ wouldn't have spent if they had similar to what LJ has had at his disposal? 

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4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I agree with you, yes he has.

But it's not the point we were arguing!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

To be fair you've just said you have to look at the whole picture, you acknowledge that more money has come in than ever before under LJ, but still only focus on one particular point

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