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Interesting comments from LJ...


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9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s so easy for people to snipe at managers, throwing out often vicious comments based on speculation or prejudice.  I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to see the best in them, and for that reason I am prepared to believe:

  • Lee Johnson is an honourable man. People who throw others under the bus to save their own skins are not honourable.
  • Lee Johnson loves Bristol City and wants to do his best for the club. I love city a damn site more than LJ ever will. 
  • Things have gone on this season that we don’t know about or don’t fully understand, and we will not know what all those things are unless someone who does know all about them tells us. Just like any workplace.  Usually they are dealt with internally and the 'boss' doesn't use them as excuses for his own inadequacies. 
  • If Steve Lansdown thought that it was better for the club to have a different manager, then he would have sacked Lee Johnson by now. Not necessarily. 
  • People who work for Bristol City know more about football than I do. You underestimate yourself. 

I suggest that while we are in touch with the playoffs we get behind everyone concerned and see what can be delivered in the remains of the season.  We have seen pretty miraculous turnarounds before, after all.

I therefore suggest that everyone chills out and gets behind the team.

 

 

 

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Read all a'bat it !   Read all a'bat it !

Johnson forthcoming trilogy will reveal what a wonderful person he is, what a fantastic job he's done, in the most difficult circumstances ever encountered by any human being on this planet, whilst facing unwarranted criticism and hostility from ungrateful players, fans and journalists.

Hogwarts !

 

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

In a conversation about creativity goals do not really come into it, so i discounted goals, and considering Pato is a number 10 I would be miffed if he hadn't scored more goals than an out and out winger. 

But even if we bring goals into the equation, our most creative player is *checks notes* Niclas Eliasson. 

This is not to say he's the best thing since sliced bread as he does have areas to improve, however bar WBA I have not to my knowledge this season seen a game where he was flat out bad, I've seen games where he has not had a great impact, because he's been double or triple teamed, and because of the abjest lack of attacking intent through other channels he stays double and triple teamed for 90 minutes, as we don't have a coach with the nouse to see that and then instruct the other players to attack the space created then I'm not sure that is justification to say the Nic is the one who is anonymous. 

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3 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think LJ's biggest critics are simply too harsh when it comes to the mitigating circumstances, especially for a club in our position/budget/size etc. Ultimately, fighting for the top 6, he's outdone what many thought he was capable of. So much so that they've started getting the excuses in early, if we were to be promoted. That's a sign of progress for me.

But LJ does not help himself with the constant chopping and changing regardless - and although more improved recently, the transfer policy needs to be much more closely aligned to what style of play LJ actually wants. Or does he sign 'the best available and affordable' player in any position and then try and shoe horn them into the team? If so, that needs to change. 

Choose it, stick to it, buy to work in it. When LJ talks about identity I feel he means ethic or ethos. Fans want to see a playing identity and he doesn't help himself with that changing the team and formation all the time, regardless of injuries etc and unknown book content matters.

 

And on repeat.

Lee Johnson has stated he wanted a playing identity running through the club from the academy to the XI. 

He was making parallels between academy teams high pressing in 2017 and the XI.

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11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And on repeat.

Lee Johnson has stated he wanted a playing identity running through the club from the academy to the XI. 

He was making parallels between academy teams high pressing in 2017 and the XI.

Have you got a link to that comment? Not doubting it just can't recall it, the academy don't really play with a uniform style. Under Cotts everyone played 352 iirc.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s so easy for people to snipe at managers, throwing out often vicious comments based on speculation or prejudice.  I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to see the best in them, and for that reason I am prepared to believe:

  • Lee Johnson is an honourable man.  ✔️ 
  • Lee Johnson loves Bristol City and wants to do his best for the club. ✔️ 
  • Things have gone on this season that we don’t know about or don’t fully understand, and we will not know what all those things are unless someone who does know all about them tells us. ✔️ 
  • If Steve Lansdown thought that it was better for the club to have a different manager, then he would have sacked Lee Johnson by now. Spot on! ✔️ 
  • People who work for Bristol City know more about football than I do. ✔️ 

I suggest that while we are in touch with the playoffs we get behind everyone concerned and see what can be delivered in the remains of the season.  We have seen pretty miraculous turnarounds before, after all. Right again! ✔️ 

I therefore suggest that everyone chills out and gets behind the team. 
Good advice but this is otib - pretty much everybody knows better than the professionals in charge..........:cool2:

 

Edited by Robbored
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i wish people would stop using assists as an argument for a player to be included. Assist stats are ridiculous. If player A does exactly the same as player B but the chance created by player A is scored, how is player A then better than B ?  

Also if player Y runs past four players and tees up a striker who misses from 6 yards why is he then rewarded less than player Z who passes ten yards to someone who scores from 30 yards?

The assist stats have huge flaws in it and it’s lazy to use them. 

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19 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Have you got a link to that comment? Not doubting it just can't recall it, the academy don't really play with a uniform style. Under Cotts everyone played 352 iirc.

One from 2016 -  https://www.coachesvoice.com/lee-johnson-bristol-city-oldham-athletic/ Scroll to the end. 

I would disagree about the academy. They clearly are playing with football that mirrors age related priorities. Its illogical for its football not to be generally uniform. 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

i wish people would stop using assists as an argument for a player to be included. Assist stats are ridiculous. If player A does exactly the same as player B but the chance created by player A is scored, how is player A then better than B ?  

Also if player Y runs past four players and tees up a striker who misses from 6 yards why is he then rewarded less than player Z who passes ten yards to someone who scores from 30 yards?

The assist stats have huge flaws in it and it’s lazy to use them. 

You just need to look at the dangerpings from Elliasson to see his threat.

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15 minutes ago, RedDave said:

i wish people would stop using assists as an argument for a player to be included. Assist stats are ridiculous. If player A does exactly the same as player B but the chance created by player A is scored, how is player A then better than B ?  

Also if player Y runs past four players and tees up a striker who misses from 6 yards why is he then rewarded less than player Z who passes ten yards to someone who scores from 30 yards?

The assist stats have huge flaws in it and it’s lazy to use them. 

A very good point. 

It's a bit like a keeper having many clean sheets, all the while playing behind the very best team of outfield players. Stats don't tell you everything, far from it. A bit like being 7th in the table doesn't I suppose. 

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11 minutes ago, mozo said:

You just need to look at the dangerpings from Elliasson to see his threat.

Teams have now seemingly nullified him a lot easier. Doubling up and onto him quickly.  Cant really remember many chances he has created or games where he has threatened of late.  Delivery been poorer as well.  

Edited by RedDave
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7 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

A very good point. 

It's a bit like a keeper having many clean sheets, all the while playing behind the very best team of outfield players. Stats don't tell you everything, far from it. A bit like being 7th in the table doesn't I suppose. 

How can you say that ? What a load of complete and utter bollox. We are 7th in the table through form and merit. Nowt to do with stats FFS or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here ?

Edited by BigTone
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6 minutes ago, BigTone said:

How can you say that ? What a load of complete and utter bollox. We are 7th in the table through form and merit. Nowt to do with stats FFS or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here ?

I'm suggesting 7th doesn't tell you anything about how you got there, the level of luck, bad luck, your current form, your level of performance etc etc. 

Relax. Ain't worth having a coronary over. 

Edited by CotswoldRed
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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s so easy for people to snipe at managers, throwing out often vicious comments based on speculation or prejudice.  I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to see the best in them, and for that reason I am prepared to believe:

  • Lee Johnson is an honourable man.
  • Lee Johnson loves Bristol City and wants to do his best for the club.
  • Things have gone on this season that we don’t know about or don’t fully understand, and we will not know what all those things are unless someone who does know all about them tells us.
  • If Steve Lansdown thought that it was better for the club to have a different manager, then he would have sacked Lee Johnson by now.
  • People who work for Bristol City know more about football than I do.

I suggest that while we are in touch with the playoffs we get behind everyone concerned and see what can be delivered in the remains of the season.  We have seen pretty miraculous turnarounds before, after all.

I therefore suggest that everyone chills out and gets behind the team.

 

 

That suggests we aren’t chilled and not gonna get behind the team?  Never not got behind our boys.

I think there has been some pretty good debate over the weekend.  Haven’t seen anyone get particularly ‘arsey’ with anyone else.  So what, if it’s critiquing the head-coach (predominantly) and the players (less so)?  That’s because in a lot of our opinions we haven’t been very good over a number of games.

I think a lot of us still think there is a lot to play for, just worried about the trend of our own team.  Perhaps other teams will contrive to make our own form less crucial.  Great if that happens.

But raiding questions / concerns does not mean we aren’t in support.  OTIB is a platform to discuss these.  It’s a subset of the fan base, probably not a true cross-section of fans, but on the flip-side, we don’t know the “quiet ones” aren’t thinking similarly either.

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11 minutes ago, BigTone said:

How can you say that ? What a load of complete and utter bollox. We are 7th in the table through form and merit. Nowt to do with stats FFS or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here ?

We are 7th based on.....

.....results. 👍🏻

In some respects that all that matters, but if our opinions had to be directly related to results, it’d be pretty dull round here 😂

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are 7th based on.....

.....results. 👍🏻

In some respects that all that matters, but if our opinions had to be directly related to results, it’d be pretty dull round here 😂

We will NOT have nuance here thank you

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43 minutes ago, RedDave said:

i wish people would stop using assists as an argument for a player to be included. Assist stats are ridiculous. If player A does exactly the same as player B but the chance created by player A is scored, how is player A then better than B ?  

Also if player Y runs past four players and tees up a striker who misses from 6 yards why is he then rewarded less than player Z who passes ten yards to someone who scores from 30 yards?

The assist stats have huge flaws in it and it’s lazy to use them. 

I agree...a lot of stats need greater depth.

The same for winning headers...you can win your dual, but it's where the ball goes next that counts.

As for the quote by LJ, I'll take it as genuine and not looking for excuses.

None of us know what goes on behind the scenes and why certain players are dropped or picked.

The recent game where we had illness and had to change 4 players in the morning is a prime example...some were head spinning when the team was announced.

It's the same every week. There's always something.

What irks me the most is when certain people say the likes of Eliasson or Palmer should be picked. LJ does just that and they end up playing very ordinary or poorly.

The Coach can't win.

It's worth noting...we are dealing with mid to high Championship level players. The reason they are at that level is because they are inconsistent...not Prem Standard. 

And it reflects in what we watch most weeks...one game someone plays a blinder, the next they are pants. And so it goes on.

I still think so many fans expect us to play the same way as when we had Reid up front...yes it was entertaining...but we're we any higher in the league? No.

Yes we've been poor...but we've also been excellent.

Fingers crossed we find our mojo again on Saturday.

I just hope the fans will be up for it...and it's not dour in our support.

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6 hours ago, spudski said:

...and I'm sure some will use it as ' more excuses'...

From today's presser...

You've made 87 changes this season - Lee Bowyer is the only manager that's made more. Is it a case that those players have shown you that if they perform like that, you'll keep them?

Yeah, absolutely. You don't want to make those changes. The starting point is that you won't believe what's happened to us this year; there's three books, let alone one, and one day, maybe in five years' time, that'll all come out.

All bullshit the real truth is like many who have left and some of this group don't believe in JOHNSON and his tactics. Like I posted before and backed up another poster recently about not being a happy camp and it's not and that's a fact. Get to May and get him gone he's  clueless and out of his depth and his body language on the touchline every game shows that. 

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53 minutes ago, RedDave said:

i wish people would stop using assists as an argument for a player to be included. Assist stats are ridiculous. If player A does exactly the same as player B but the chance created by player A is scored, how is player A then better than B ?  

Also if player Y runs past four players and tees up a striker who misses from 6 yards why is he then rewarded less than player Z who passes ten yards to someone who scores from 30 yards?

The assist stats have huge flaws in it and it’s lazy to use them. 

An assist is an absolute in the same way that a goal is. The laziness lies in using them as a crutch for an argument without delving into the depth and nuance of the statistic. As an example it was lazy for people to say "Eliasson must play with Fam up top" when Eliasson had all those assists. Why lazy? Underlying statistics showed that actually Eliasson rarely assisted Diedhiou goals - at the time I think they had partnered for one goal and since then have one more. That lazy assertion was based on preconceptions that a big bloke works well when a little bloke is hitting crosses in.

In fact alongside the development of xG has been a concept of xA - expected assists - which does do exactly what you ask in that it attributes different values to different types of potential assist. It has some flaws as naturally whether a pass becomes an assist depends not only upon the player making the pass but also upon the one taking the shot - but the idea is there.

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7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

An assist is an absolute in the same way that a goal is. The laziness lies in using them as a crutch for an argument without delving into the depth and nuance of the statistic. As an example it was lazy for people to say "Eliasson must play with Fam up top" when Eliasson had all those assists. Why lazy? Underlying statistics showed that actually Eliasson rarely assisted Diedhiou goals - at the time I think they had partnered for one goal and since then have one more. That lazy assertion was based on preconceptions that a big bloke works well when a little bloke is hitting crosses in.

In fact alongside the development of xG has been a concept of xA - expected assists - which does do exactly what you ask in that it attributes different values to different types of potential assist. It has some flaws as naturally whether a pass becomes an assist depends not only upon the player making the pass but also upon the one taking the shot - but the idea is there.

Eliasson has assisted as many Weimann headed goals as he has Fam this season!!!

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Eliasson has assisted as many Weimann headed goals as he has Fam this season!!!

Yep, and at the time of the peak of the clamour for him to play I am pretty sure he'd assisted more headed goals for Weimann than Fam. That's the point re the lazy use of statistics.

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29 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

It would be a lot easier if the team gave us something to get behind.

They have - the head coach, with a knife! :shocking:

That's metaphorically, of course.

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