Villa's finances and FFP

[Whitchurch1966]

3 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said:

Have you ever been as close to Premier League football as you are today ?

I can accept whats happening to us. There is a contingency.

Lost the play off final to Hull City, so yes closer than now, other than a Windass wonder goal we were very close, could argue we were the better team on the day, but we lost so we can't have been can we.

[AnAstonVillafan]

5 minutes ago, Whitchurch1966 said:

Lost the play off final to Hull City, so yes closer than now, other than a Windass wonder goal we were very close, could argue we were the better team on the day, but we lost so we can't have been can we.

Fair enough. But surely, as a Bristol City fan you'd wanna get in the top 6 and have a go this year ?  For all the grief Aston Villa seems to get in this forum, I'd cheer you on. Bristol and the surrounding area could benefit from top tier football. Personally I'd like to see you guys or Forest go up. London has enough representation.

[Whitchurch1966]

Of course I want to get there, but if we do get there it will be by working within the FFP rules as they stand. Having said that the best season I have experienced in the 50 odd years I have been supporting City was a couple of years back when we won League 1 and the Tinpot cup, we played some great football while the ground was being redeveloped around us. Fighting to exist just above the bottom 3 in the Prem isn't necessarily that attractive. If we build the infrastructure, new training ground next year, phase II of the Ashton Gate development to add the Basketball arena, hotels etc, more commercial opportunities and we get to the Prem we might be in a position to stay there and compete, having done it the right way.

[AnAstonVillafan]

I have been following the Villa for just under 30 years and in the early 1990s it was unthinkable that the club could be relegated. But when our owner imposed austerity in about 2011 the following 5 years became a constant struggle against relegation while buying young lower league players in an attempt to be self sustaining. But in that league you need to spend money to stand still.

I actually don't mind the Saturday/Tuesday, lower profile and poor refereeing in the Championship and the chance to visit new grounds and win 20 times a season instead of 7 or 8. I agree that fighting to exist in the lower half is not fun. And eventually like West Brom, Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham etc.....you will drop.

Another thing is with PL standard players and seedings you might get a few cup runs. A couple of finals and maybe the odd win.

You say the right way there is no right way. Not everyone can do it like Sheffield United. Norwich had the same parachute payments as we did. Huddersfield and Brighton spent £5m. Cardiff something simliar. Reading very nearly did it the "right way" - lost a penalty shootout and were so unlucky.

If a club breaks FFP rules, they will be sanctioned. I am confident of that.
 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, AnAstonVillafan said:

You would give up a shot at promotion, just to see us go down ?

It’s a joke....but on a serious point, I think you have a better chance of staying up than we do of going up.  I think we have a better chance of play-offs, but then it’s 1 out of 4.

[Delta]

2 hours ago, AnAstonVillafan said:

You would give up a shot at promotion, just to see us go down ?

BCFC - There's a clue there.

Besides, they're not as good as the other 4 currently occupying the play off spots so their chance are are lot less than ours.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Delta said:

BCFC - There's a clue there.

Besides, they're not as good as the other 4 currently occupying the play off spots so their chance are are lot less than ours.

Not as good as the 4 occupying the play offs?

For much of 2020 we've not been as good as most of the division!

[1960maaan]

4 hours ago, AnAstonVillafan said:

Fair enough. But surely, as a Bristol City fan you'd wanna get in the top 6 and have a go this year ?  For all the grief Aston Villa seems to get in this forum, I'd cheer you on. Bristol and the surrounding area could benefit from top tier football. Personally I'd like to see you guys or Forest go up. London has enough representation.

As a City supporter, I want to win every game, but I'm still not sure I want the Prem. Maybe for some interesting away days , but so much I hate about it. My Norwich mate is really not enjoying the season and is almost looking forward to relegation.

The grief Villa get on here is due to your delusional, self entitled fans that seem to drown out the normal reasoned ones ( you may be one of the latter). Did you hear/see the call to Talksport by one of yours saying that you should have sacked the manager at Christmas and appointed Potch ? Would have jumped at the chance as you're a massive club apparently. 

TBH, I don't see us good enough, or consistent enough to go up. Over 2 legs I don't see us coming out top against any of the teams that might make it,  loved to be proved wrong though.

[Delta]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

As a City supporter, I want to win every game, but I'm still not sure I want the Prem. Maybe for some interesting away days , but so much I hate about it. My Norwich mate is really not enjoying the season and is almost looking forward to relegation.

The grief Villa get on here is due to your delusional, self entitled fans that seem to drown out the normal reasoned ones ( you may be one of the latter). Did you hear/see the call to Talksport by one of yours saying that you should have sacked the manager at Christmas and appointed Potch ? Would have jumped at the chance as you're a massive club apparently. 

TBH, I don't see us good enough, or consistent enough to go up. Over 2 legs I don't see us coming out top against any of the teams that might make it,  loved to be proved wrong though.

The set up and potential at Villa is massive.  Only 1 manager has ever left Villa for bigger things and that is SGT.

Poch may be optimistic but given he's lost his mojo now that he's been sacked, he may have to lower his own bar.

The prospect of managing Villa would be tempting to all but a very select few managers.  You should never underestimate the pulling power that Villa have.

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight, the caller was right - Smith should have gone at Christmas but Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

No doubt my comments will be seen as delusional, arrogant etc - I see it as facts in the cold light of day.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Delta said:

The set up and potential at Villa is massive.  Only 1 manager has ever left Villa for bigger things and that is SGT.

Poch may be optimistic but given he's lost his mojo now that he's been sacked, he may have to lower his own bar.

The prospect of managing Villa would be tempting to all but a very select few managers.  You should never underestimate the pulling power that Villa have.

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight, the caller was right - Smith should have gone at Christmas but Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

I suspect he had a clause that said “if you get another job, we (Spurs) stop paying you”!

No doubt my comments will be seen as delusional, arrogant etc - I see it as facts in the cold light of day.

that is a classic “I see it as facts....”

that is exactly the comment of someone delusional

as I see it (without having to label it as fact, but as an “opinion”), I think Poch would have bigger positioned clubs (at this point in time) after him.

 

[Delta]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Sometimes it's a "we stop paying you", some times it's a "you don't work for anyone else"  Often, the manager wants to take the opportunity to have a long break.

Facts are facts - Pcoh (if offered the Villa job) would a,most certainly consider it - Whether he took it or decided to wait for something else is another question.  Nobody was looking for a new manager at Christmas (there's another fact for you).

[cider-manc]

9 minutes ago, Delta said:

The set up and potential at Villa is massive.  Only 1 manager has ever left Villa for bigger things and that is SGT.

Poch may be optimistic but given he's lost his mojo now that he's been sacked, he may have to lower his own bar.

The prospect of managing Villa would be tempting to all but a very select few managers.  You should never underestimate the pulling power that Villa have.

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight, the caller was right - Smith should have gone at Christmas but Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

No doubt my comments will be seen as delusional, arrogant etc - I see it as facts in the cold light of day.

He was linked with Bayern Munich and real madrid in December.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mauricio-pochettino-bayern-munich-manager-real-madrid

But yeah I'm sure the pull of relegation threatened aston villa would have just been too much for him.

 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Delta said:

Sometimes it's a "we stop paying you", some times it's a "you don't work for anyone else"  Often, the manager wants to take the opportunity to have a long break.

Facts are facts - Pcoh (if offered the Villa job) would a,most certainly consider it - Whether he took it or decided to wait for something else is another question.  Nobody was looking for a new manager at Christmas (there's another fact for you).

facts, facts, almost, certainly - that one word destroys the other 3 you throw around with such abandon.

5 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

He was linked with Bayern Munich and real madrid in December.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mauricio-pochettino-bayern-munich-manager-real-madrid

But yeah I'm sure the pull of relegation threatened aston villa would have just been too much for him.

 

 

[Delta]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

facts, facts, almost, certainly - that one word destroys the other 3 you throw around with such abandon.

 

So 442 is the facts?

Yeah - Freddie Star eat a hmster once as well.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Delta said:

So 442 is the facts?

Yeah - Freddie Star eat a hmster once as well.

Wasn’t saying it was....but at least it came from a recognised football magazine.  Doesn’t make yours any more factual does it.

[1960maaan]

33 minutes ago, Delta said:

Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

I read that he would have to return most/all of the £12m payoff should he join another club before the end of the season. He managed Champions League runners up, linked with 2 of the Worlds biggest clubs, yep I'm sure he would jump at the chance to manage a relegation threatened, first year up Prem side FACTs. 

 

[AnAstonVillafan]

Poch would not consider Villa at this point in his career.  Not anymore than he would consider Norwich or Watford.

Having said that he did join a newly promoted Southampton from Espanyol. They were three points above the drop zone at the time.

I remember thinking Saints were crazy for sacking Adkins who I thought had done a great job.

[cider-manc]

1 hour ago, Delta said:

So 442 is the facts?

Yeah - Freddie Star eat a hmster once as well.

The article is in one of the worlds biggest football magazines and is based on reports by sky sports news and sky sports Germany.

All 3 of them have considerably more sources/reliability than a bias villa fan, who takes offence at the accusations of arrogance and then does nothing but enforce the opinion by being arrogant throughout their posts.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said:

Poch would not consider Villa at this point in his career.  Not anymore than he would consider Norwich or Watford.

Having said that he did join a newly promoted Southampton from Espanyol. They were three points above the drop zone at the time.

I remember thinking Saints were crazy for sacking Adkins who I thought had done a great job.

I thought the same, thought Adkins had been doing a decent job.It was a different Potch 7 years ago, unemployed (Wiki) after Espanyol, and I think his sights would have been set lower than they are now. I rarely see the point of sacking your manager when you struggle in the first year in the Prem. Very rarely prevents relegation, and if the manager was good enough to get the team up, surely he's worth another go with more financial backing the following year.

[GreedyHarry]

2 hours ago, Delta said:

The set up and potential at Villa is massive.  Only 1 manager has ever left Villa for bigger things and that is SGT.

Poch may be optimistic but given he's lost his mojo now that he's been sacked, he may have to lower his own bar.

The prospect of managing Villa would be tempting to all but a very select few managers.  You should never underestimate the pulling power that Villa have.

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight, the caller was right - Smith should have gone at Christmas but Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

No doubt my comments will be seen as delusional, arrogant etc - I see it as facts in the cold light of day.

Heard that before, somewhere a lot closer to home.

[steviestevieneville]

4 hours ago, Delta said:

The set up and potential at Villa is massive.  Only 1 manager has ever left Villa for bigger things and that is SGT.

Poch may be optimistic but given he's lost his mojo now that he's been sacked, he may have to lower his own bar.

The prospect of managing Villa would be tempting to all but a very select few managers.  You should never underestimate the pulling power that Villa have.

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight, the caller was right - Smith should have gone at Christmas but Potch would probably be on a clause that stops him from working again this season.

No doubt my comments will be seen as delusional, arrogant etc - I see it as facts in the cold light of day.

This is exactly why people take the piss . Delusional doesn’t cover it. Put the drugs down and walk away . You’re not the same villa of 40 years ago and probably never will be . 
whereas with us, our history is 9 years in the top flight and 1 F.A cup final. The rest of it spent in leagues 2 and 3 barring 2 years in the basement. Almost anything else is upwards for us. 

[Delta]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

This is exactly why people take the piss . Delusional doesn’t cover it. Put the drugs down and walk away . You’re not the same villa of 40 years ago and probably never will be . 
whereas with us, our history is 9 years in the top flight and 1 F.A cup final. The rest of it spent in leagues 2 and 3 barring 2 years in the basement. Almost anything else is upwards for us. 

You're delusional to keep on harping about 40 years ago.

We were as powerful, if not more so in the 90s & noughties.

We took SGT from Div1 Watford when were in Div2 and Ron Atkinson from Sheff Wed after they'd won promotion & the League Cup.  We have massive pulling power, even today and as I said, there's only a handful of managers who would walk away without at least discussing it.

You think just because we're recovering from a poor ownership that we're always going to be like this.  You are wrong loss of form is temporary but class is permanent.  Of course we'll be back - Just as 40 years ago we weren't in the same position we are today.

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, Delta said:

You're delusional to keep on harping about 40 years ago.

We were as powerful, if not more so in the 90s & noughties.

We took SGT from Div1 Watford when were in Div2 and Ron Atkinson from Sheff Wed after they'd won promotion & the League Cup.  We have massive pulling power, even today and as I said, there's only a handful of managers who would walk away without at least discussing it.

You think just because we're recovering from a poor ownership that we're always going to be like this.  You are wrong loss of form is temporary but class is permanent.  Of course we'll be back - Just as 40 years ago we weren't in the same position we are today.

You keep believing that sunshine if it makes you feel better. Football is a different animal now to even 15-20 years ago. 
you keep singing about 40 years ago and we’ll keep laughing at you. 
you’re not famous anymore

[Delta]

Not famous but still have a 7 page (and growing) thread on here.

Why laugh about a chant regarding an achievement 40 years ago? It is simply a response to tin pot fans like Spurs when they try to take the piss - Nothing for you to wet your Y fronts over.

[Steve Watts]

19 hours ago, Whitchurch1966 said:

Of course I want to get there, but if we do get there it will be by working within the FFP rules as they stand. Having said that the best season I have experienced in the 50 odd years I have been supporting City was a couple of years back when we won League 1 and the Tinpot cup, we played some great football while the ground was being redeveloped around us. Fighting to exist just above the bottom 3 in the Prem isn't necessarily that attractive. If we build the infrastructure, new training ground next year, phase II of the Ashton Gate development to add the Basketball arena, hotels etc, more commercial opportunities and we get to the Prem we might be in a position to stay there and compete, having done it the right way.

I would counter that with a belief I've always held.  I would be delighted if we secured promotion, spent very little, took the money and use it to build a team and infrastructure that could survive in the Prem and eventually surprise a few people.

[ciderwithtommy]

1 hour ago, Delta said:

Not famous but still have a 7 page (and growing) thread on here.

Why laugh about a chant regarding an achievement 40 years ago? It is simply a response to tin pot fans like Spurs when they try to take the piss - Nothing for you to wet your Y fronts over.

Haha haha Spurs are tin pot now as well. Not sure if you are an excellent wind up merchant, or just totally shot away. Either way, fair play you have been good value in this thread and perpetuated the view of Birmingham’s most irrelevant club. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

There is one notable difference in the two sets of analysis by Kieran Maguire and Swiss Ramble.

One includes the HS2 money and one does not...me I'd say Year 1 is fine as it is exceptional operating income, but a recurrence of it means that for P&S purposes it is no longer exceptional and cannot be classed as such- and the same applies to any further HS2 revenue in terms of P&S calculations.

There is some rounding in the 2nd one of course but both show Aston Villa as compliant once the stadium sale factored in.

Asset sold...loans receivable. Doesn't sit right for P&S purposes- surprised the EFL are happy about a profit being banked in such a way, certainly surprised the PL are.

Offsetting of loans against asset...how different is that to debt being written off.

[cider-manc]

2 hours ago, Delta said:

Not famous but still have a 7 page (and growing) thread on here.

Why laugh about a chant regarding an achievement 40 years ago? It is simply a response to tin pot fans like Spurs when they try to take the piss - Nothing for you to wet your Y fronts over.

This thread would have died days ago if you hadn't continuously come back to it spouting bs.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Gotta say if this in any way came to pass, the money would have to be clawed back somehow...

If this came to pass and relegation spots etc were decided as of now, Aston Villa would be in big bother once more...mind you they'd be in very good company!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting Tweet by Kieran Maguire a little while ago.

Hence, I'm a little confused still as to how the ground transaction can stand in the context of this, in the form it took.

My point is basically that this maybe a Profit in the P&L but LOANS- or offsetting loans...dodgy or at least sketchy from a P&S pov.