Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, CiderCraig said: "Up to that point" - That's like saying "we went unbeaten, until somebody beat us"! Your trolling is poor, yes you have had bites, but that's because we are laughing at you, not annoyed by you. You aren't good enough for the Prem. anymore, your finances are ****ed and your 'saviour' Jack Grealish will be jumping ship in about 3 months time! See you back at the 'Gate soon. Up to that point - As opposed to other teams who had yo-yo'd I'm not interested in bites - I only post really to correct the nonsense that Pops posts. Our finances have never been better and if we have to go back down to move forward then so be it - We were 1 year ahead of things anyway. Another 2 windows next season & we'll be better equipped for the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Delta said: We are billy big bollocks - That's why you're all so obsessed about us - The Championship has never known anything quite like Villa being there and you don't like it when we flex our muscles. And with Grealish & Mings not being there will mean we've got even more money to burn than last time. Trust me I’m not in any way obsessed. In fact you’ll find that prior to ***ts like you coming on here and giving it the big ‘un that I’d actually stood up for Villa. Family friends who took me to most of the football I went to when I was younger were from Brum but lived down here so took me to see Villa a few times as well as City, and I have fond memories of standing on the Holte End, meeting lovely people in the supporters club before games and being treated very well. I even saw you away at Old Trafford as a young ‘un in Graham Taylor’s day. Happy memories. But unfortunately you and your ilk of jumped up ****s make it very hard for that affinity to remain. The sense of entitlement is incredible. But a proper stint in that Championship will soon sort that out. And make no mistake - that’s whats coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderwithtommy Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Delta said: Nothing to do with giving it large - Just stating a fact. Of course Villa are bigger than anything the Championship has ever seen. Ever presents in the PL up to that point and numerous top 6 finishes. “My club is bigger than yours” cool story mate, I might start supporting Real Madrid now so that I can be better than you and your tin pot team - is that how it works!? after watching last nights performance, you need to come back to your true level, and whilst I am eating tapas and watching champions league games in Madrid you will be in Rotherham! It’s so easy being a football fan now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Delta said: Up to that point - As opposed to other teams who had yo-yo'd I'm not interested in bites - I only post really to correct the nonsense that Pops posts. Our finances have never been better and if we have to go back down to move forward then so be it - We were 1 year ahead of things anyway. Another 2 windows next season & we'll be better equipped for the PL. Delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 Should we even treat HS2 income as relevant income for FFP- especially when Exceptional Operating Income appears to fall in successive seasons? I'd argue it's a debating point at least. If not for the first lot, then the 2nd. Exceptional means non-recurring and unlikely to happen again, you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, lenred said: Trust me I’m not in any way obsessed. In fact you’ll find that prior to ***ts like you coming on here and giving it the big ‘un that I’d actually stood up for Villa. Family friends who took me to most of the football I went to when I was younger were from Brum but lived down here so took me to see Villa a few times as well as City, and I have fond memories of standing on the Holte End, meeting lovely people in the supporters club before games and being treated very well. I even saw you away at Old Trafford as a young ‘un in Graham Taylor’s day. Happy memories. But unfortunately you and your ilk of jumped up ****s make it very hard for that affinity to remain. The sense of entitlement is incredible. But a proper stint in that Championship will soon sort that out. And make no mistake - that’s whats coming. The first mistake you made was to think I crave your affinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Delta said: Up to that point - As opposed to other teams who had yo-yo'd I'm not interested in bites - I only post really to correct the nonsense that Pops posts. Our finances have never been better and if we have to go back down to move forward then so be it - We were 1 year ahead of things anyway. Another 2 windows next season & we'll be better equipped for the PL. The thing is that you and some of the posters on your forum have been criticising @Mr Popodopolous for his "obsession" and complaining that we are upset with the stretching of FFP rules, without ever actually saying he is wrong in what he is saying. It seems the attitude is that "of course Villa spent loads of money, we are big club and can do what we like". The whole point of FFP is to try and create a level playing field and if you were at the other end of that attitude, you too would be asking why the rules only seem to apply to smaller clubs struggling to legimately compete with clubs with huge parachute payments. Villa are a small club in the grand scheme of things, but bigger than us, but they are currently being helped to maintain that status quo by flouting the rules that should be making things more equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said: “My club is bigger than yours” cool story mate, I might start supporting Real Madrid now so that I can be better than you and your tin pot team - is that how it works!? after watching last nights performance, you need to come back to your true level, and whilst I am eating tapas and watching champions league games in Madrid you will be in Rotherham! It’s so easy being a football fan now! Nothing to do with that - I was just stating a fact. Support who you want - I support AVFC and will be there wherever we are playing. We all know our level and it isn't the Championship. Keep kidding yourselves that it is though - It will only end in disappointment for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderCraig Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Delta said: Nothing to do with that - I was just stating a fact. Support who you want - I support AVFC and will be there wherever we are playing. We all know our level and it isn't the Championship. Keep kidding yourselves that it is though - It will only end in disappointment for you. Feel free to "self-isolate" Preferably in a room without a computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderwithtommy Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Delta said: Nothing to do with that - I was just stating a fact. Support who you want - I support AVFC and will be there wherever we are playing. We all know our level and it isn't the Championship. Keep kidding yourselves that it is though - It will only end in disappointment for you. last nights performance was so so poor, it was a championship performance- admit it! You are bang in the relegation zone because you aren’t good enough for the prem. you are so confused tho, if you support villa “no matter what” - would that make you tin pot when you are in the conference? Could we then look down our nose on you? What are the rules for “villa top trumps” I wonder? Tbh I don’t care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Delta said: We all know our level and it isn't the Championship. I can just imagine listening to you say that in a brummie accent. Thick.As.Shit Enjoy your "level" next year. You are already down mate, without little Jack to save your skin. Hilarious. Keep up the good work - you are entertaining us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAstonVillafan Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, cider-manc said: Watford and Brighton have extra 100s of million from premier league tv money - truth is no matter how many shirts you sell and how many seats you fill. Its difficult to compete wages wise. A bit like championship teams trying to compete with parachute payments (a rule I hate), it immediately tips the board in certain clubs favour. I appreciate that you hate parachute payments but they are designed to help a club deal with lower revenues while having highly paid Premier League players on the books. Something that nearly finished Portsmouth off. Birmingham City had a player on 60k a week for three years after relegation and they couldn't shift him. Also any newly relegated club will have £110m burning a hole in their pocket before parachute payments arrive. At Villa, Graham Taylor back in 2003 used to insist that the only way they could pay to strengthen the team was by filling the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said: last nights performance was so so poor, it was a championship performance- admit it! You are bang in the relegation zone because you aren’t good enough for the prem. you are so confused tho, if you support villa “no matter what” - would that make you tin pot when you are in the conference? Could we then look down our nose on you? What are the rules for “villa top trumps” I wonder? Tbh I don’t care You are Bristol City - You will never be in a position to look down your nose at us. There's another fact for you. Why don't you all whip yourselves up into a frenzy over Brentford or Luton or some other tin pot club at your level? Do you not understand the bemusement of Villa fans that you obsess over us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: The thing is that you and some of the posters on your forum have been criticising @Mr Popodopolous for his "obsession" and complaining that we are upset with the stretching of FFP rules, without ever actually saying he is wrong in what he is saying. It seems the attitude is that "of course Villa spent loads of money, we are big club and can do what we like". The whole point of FFP is to try and create a level playing field and if you were at the other end of that attitude, you too would be asking why the rules only seem to apply to smaller clubs struggling to legimately compete with clubs with huge parachute payments. Villa are a small club in the grand scheme of things, but bigger than us, but they are currently being helped to maintain that status quo by flouting the rules that should be making things more equal. He is wrong because we are compliant. We haven't stretched rules and we haven't flouted them. We sold our major asset for fair market value which is perfectly legitimate. Regardless of FFP, we will always have an advantage over teams like yours because of what we can offer players. Do you seriously think the day will ever come when a player would choose Bristol City over Aston Villa? FFP or no FFP, you'll always be looking at players that the bigger Championship sides are not interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Delta said: He is wrong because we are compliant. We haven't stretched rules and we haven't flouted them. We sold our major asset for fair market value which is perfectly legitimate. Regardless of FFP, we will always have an advantage over teams like yours because of what we can offer players. Do you seriously think the day will ever come when a player would choose Bristol City over Aston Villa? FFP or no FFP, you'll always be looking at players that the bigger Championship sides are not interested in. The method of payment and profit is a matter of debate and question- I would also ask the question about how Operating Income- classed as Exceptional, as in one off, appears in successive years in your accounts. Instalments is fine but from an accounting or even an FFP POV, how can it be classed as "Exceptional" in the second year? Fair value- Quite possible but I'd wait for the EFL hired valuer if there is one to decide on that. Having said that, unique assets are hard to pinpoint a value on- as we've seen with the wide spread of valuations/prices paid for stadia! It's also worth wondering what method of valuation was used- different types can seem to affect price/value. Lastly, how long is the Operating Lease for? IF the owners break even, let alone exceed the price 'paid' in terms of rental income received then yes, that is another issue in its favour. Fact it lists nothing beyond 5 years though makes me wonder a little. If it is extended on a rolling basis then again that counts in favour, but if it's nothing beyond 2-5 years, that raises questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderwithtommy Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Delta said: You are Bristol City - You will never be in a position to look down your nose at us. There's another fact for you. Why don't you all whip yourselves up into a frenzy over Brentford or Luton or some other tin pot club at your level? Do you not understand the bemusement of Villa fans that you obsess over us? you. are. on. our. forum. Real Madrid Fan now tho as well - so I am considerably looking down at you. See what I did! Btw Brentford will pass you by soon enough so they can look down on your tinpot club soon enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAstonVillafan Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Delta said: He is wrong because we are compliant. We haven't stretched rules and we haven't flouted them. We sold our major asset for fair market value which is perfectly legitimate. Regardless of FFP, we will always have an advantage over teams like yours because of what we can offer players. Do you seriously think the day will ever come when a player would choose Bristol City over Aston Villa? FFP or no FFP, you'll always be looking at players that the bigger Championship sides are not interested in. No Delta. They have Weimann and Baker - two players who always put a shift in for us. I'd take them back in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said: No Delta. They have Weimann and Baker - two players who always put a shift in for us. I'd take them back in a heartbeat. Read what their own fans have to say about those 2. Neither are good enough for us & Baker is always injured. He's like Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 Villa going down, mass exodus of basically all players, bankruptcy incoming, golden boy Grealish no doubt leaving the first week of the summer transfer window, can I be the first to say...... hahahahhahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The method of payment and profit is a matter of debate and question- I would also ask the question about how Operating Income- classed as Exceptional, as in one off, appears in successive years in your accounts. Instalments is fine but from an accounting or even an FFP POV, how can it be classed as "Exceptional" in the second year? Fair value- Quite possible but I'd wait for the EFL hired valuer if there is one to decide on that. Having said that, unique assets are hard to pinpoint a value on- as we've seen with the wide spread of valuations/prices paid for stadia! It's also worth wondering what method of valuation was used- different types can seem to affect price/value. Lastly, how long is the Operating Lease for? IF the owners break even, let alone exceed the price paid in terms of rental income received then yes, that is another issue in its favour. Fact it lists nothing beyond 5 years though makes me wonder a little. You ask the question about everything - HS2, ground sale, offsetting loans. Then when you've finished that, you start on your conspiracy theories: Prince William, EFL & Hollis etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Delta said: You ask the question about everything - HS2, ground sale, offsetting loans. Then when you've finished that, you start on your conspiracy theories: Prince William, EFL & Hollis etc. Very strange interpretation...very strange. Your accounts clearly contain and have contained a number of curious items. Not saying illegit, but unique among clubs. Offsetting of loans is a grey area under FFP regs. The structure of it is interesting, in your NSWE Stadium Ltd accounts released this week. Note 7- seems to split the Loans Payable into two categories, sections. Notes 5, plus 7-9 in fact break down the whole thing. HS2- Once again no other club has had the misfortune, but what I do know is that 'Exceptional Operating Income' means non-recurring- it appears that HS2 related income has been recurring. It is known that the EFL did nto enforce FFP regs correctly- see Derby and Sheffield Wednesday, fine a year ago and now under charge- so it's hardly a conspiracy theory. Prince William is flippant remarks, driven by anger at a) Your actions but b) The sheer sense of entitlement that sections of your fanbase and club seem to carry. Regardless of claims of undue influence or otherwise, the fact that Cameron, Mervyn King and Prince William all support Aston Villa is quite interesting. Sure there was someone else as well? Hollis- well given delays in compensation that are widely reported with HS2 and trouble gaining it, you've got to wonder why or how it was carried out in such a timely manner. Shell- or former shell- company obtains ownership of stadium, paid for in the form of other loans payable to Aston Villa Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said: No Delta. They have Weimann and Baker - two players who always put a shift in for us. I'd take them back in a heartbeat. Things must be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said: I appreciate that you hate parachute payments but they are designed to help a club deal with lower revenues while having highly paid Premier League players on the books. Something that nearly finished Portsmouth off. Birmingham City had a player on 60k a week for three years after relegation and they couldn't shift him. Also any newly relegated club will have £110m burning a hole in their pocket before parachute payments arrive. At Villa, Graham Taylor back in 2003 used to insist that the only way they could pay to strengthen the team was by filling the ground. I get the principle, but also think that there is a principle of responsibility to build in relegation release clauses that mean you can afford the wages on reduced incomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, AnAstonVillafan said: I appreciate that you hate parachute payments but they are designed to help a club deal with lower revenues while having highly paid Premier League players on the books. Something that nearly finished Portsmouth off. Birmingham City had a player on 60k a week for three years after relegation and they couldn't shift him. Also any newly relegated club will have £110m burning a hole in their pocket before parachute payments arrive. At Villa, Graham Taylor back in 2003 used to insist that the only way they could pay to strengthen the team was by filling the ground. Yeah I understand their purpose. But I've always believed that clubs should have been future proofing and prepared for the possibility that they wouldn't always be in the premier league. If they haven't.... well frankly that's their fault imo and I dont see why they should be given an advantage the following season. If every club had done this to begin with then football wouldn't be in this mess. Instead they all hid behind the arguement that they needed to spend big to compete with each other when essentially they were all playing high stakes gambles. If they hadn't all been so "competitive" in paying ludicrous sums that were unsustainable without premier league money, then none of them would of had to in the first place (if that makes sense). This has now trickled down the divisions, and that in part is down to parachute payments and clubs without them now having to spend big money that isnt sustainable to have any possibility of competing with clubs that spent beyond their means and failed with no plan/worry for the future. This isn't a dig at villa by the way. This is the model now and all relegated teams know the money is coming and therefore can budget around it. Its more the fact that it's always felt like the premier league essentially trying to shut up shop. Also for what it's worth... if teams now cant get their books in order after multiple seasons of 100 million a year tv revenue... then frankly they dont deserve any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 Will parachute payments affect refs viewing of Grealish’s diving, how many belly flops have not been rewarded with free kicks now the prem refs have got wise to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I get the principle, but also think that there is a principle of responsibility to build in relegation release clauses that mean you can afford the wages on reduced incomes. 9 minutes ago, cider-manc said: Yeah I understand their purpose. But I've always believed that clubs should have been future proofing and prepared for the possibility that they wouldn't always be in the premier league. If they haven't.... well frankly that's their fault imo and I dont see why they should be given an advantage the following season. If every club had done this to begin with then football wouldn't be in this mess. Instead they all hid behind the arguement that they needed to spend big to compete with each other when essentially they were all playing high stakes gambles. If they hadn't all been so "competitive" in paying ludicrous sums that were unsustainable without premier league money, then none of them would of had to in the first place (if that makes sense). This has now trickled down the divisions, and that in part is down to parachute payments and clubs without them now having to spend big money that isnt sustainable to have any possibility of competing with clubs that spent beyond their means and failed with no plan/worry for the future. This isn't a dig at villa by the way. This is the model now and all relegated teams know the money is coming and therefore can budget around it. Its more the fact that it's always felt like the premier league essentially trying to shut up shop. Also for what it's worth... if teams now cant get their books in order after multiple seasons of 100 million a year tv revenue... then frankly they dont deserve any help. Think there are often (usually?) relegation clauses but this is a) Not universal and b) May not be in line with income (mostly TV) falls. Agree though- have to be universal as a starting point. I do wonder what % wage falls can be acceptable though- PFA, agents etc etc- it's difficult. 90% + wage falls won't fly because that's what happens if No Parachute Payments, the differentials. You could exclude them from FFP calculations, make them conditional on serious offloading of players, maybe coming in staged or % based on offloading, or ringfence them to pay existing wages as opposed to spend on new players- 3 possible solutions. Or have players included in a total wage bill up to a given point eligible and not register certain high earners, putting the onus on the club to sell/loan them out. Because they would be still on the books but not be eligible in the League. On a briefly Aston Villa- and possibly soon to be Stoke related note though, I think that if Parachute Payments received to the level they are- £90 million over 3 seasons, there's no excuse- no excuse for a club needing to sell their stadium paid for in loans or receivables, or needing to sell their ground at all in fact!! Not a dig at Aston Villa, but a general point. Let's not even mention twice exceptional Operating Income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I get the principle, but also think that there is a principle of responsibility to build in relegation release clauses that mean you can afford the wages on reduced incomes. Exactly. Players who are relegated from the Prem after struggling all season can play next season for the same wage in the Championship, and have a much easier life. Of course they are ‘missing out’ on all the ‘big’ clubs but if it’s purely down to money I guess they might like winning games every week in the Championship rather than we the whipping boys of the Prem. Players expect a huge increase in wages when they are promoted, so why isn’t it automatic they get a huge cut when relegated? If they don’t want a wage cut then make sure you don’t get relegated or jump ship to a new club. If they are good enough they will get snapped up by another club, and if they aren’t they are at the fitting level and on the wages in line with that. Yup, I hate parachute payments with a passion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 10, 2020 Admin Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, RedM said: Exactly. Players who are relegated from the Prem after struggling all season can play next season for the same wage in the Championship, and have a much easier life. Of course they are ‘missing out’ on all the ‘big’ clubs but if it’s purely down to money I guess they might like winning games every week in the Championship rather than we the whipping boys of the Prem. Players expect a huge increase in wages when they are promoted, so why isn’t it automatic they get a huge cut when relegated? If they don’t want a wage cut then make sure you don’t get relegated or jump ship to a new club. If they are good enough they will get snapped up by another club, and if they aren’t they are at the fitting level and on the wages in line with that. Yup, I hate parachute payments with a passion But surely any club, especially one like Villa that has already recently experienced relegation would have clauses in all the players contracts that their salaries would drop if the side was relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, phantom said: But surely any club, especially one like Villa that has already recently experienced relegation would have clauses in all the players contracts that their salaries would drop if the side was relegated? They would, but again no parachute payments...no player will accept 90% in wage fall on relegation. Agents, PFA, modern game- is it feasible? Think 40-45% probably, perhaps 50% the upper limits. Because that, and maybe more is the differential between the two divisions in TV money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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