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Nathan ‘sick note’ Baker


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24 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Not saying you’re wrong chief - but you’ve just posted a link to a report from The Bristol Post - a publication that has called our home ground “Aston Gate” and has called our club “Bistol City” and has called our record appearance holder “Lewis Carey” and has called our owner “Landsdown” .... their attention to detail is not exactly top notch and that report doesn’t list the 20 games

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21 hours ago, freezer said:

I think you called it incorrectly and are trying to backtrack and cover yourself.

You obviously were referring in part to today. The guy went off with concussion. He had to. He got that because, unlike others, he got stuck in.

I can't fault him for that.

If it's of any help, I too, at the time thought, oh off he goes again, but waited to hear why.

 

 

This is the main point that I raised that I wanted you to answer. 

2 hours ago, freezer said:

@RobboredCare to reply to this mate? 

 

You did by saying.... 

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Again?   

Never did get a reply to my first question. 

2 hours ago, freezer said:

To the points I raised. 

Youve chosen, again, to not reply. I've backed you up in the past. I would appreciate a reply to my first question to yourself. If you could admit that you maybe got it wrong on this occasion. Maybe even slightly wrong, that would be great.

If though, you can speak no wrong, that's fine as well. 

At least I know where we are at. 

After all. He did go off with concussion. 

 

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2 minutes ago, freezer said:

This is the main point that I raised that I wanted you to answer. 

You did by saying.... 

Never did get a reply to my first question. 

Youve chosen, again, to not reply. I've backed you up in the past. I would appreciate a reply to my first question to yourself. If you could admit that you maybe got it wrong on this occasion. Maybe even slightly wrong, that would be great.

If though, you can speak no wrong, that's fine as well. 

At least I know where we are at. 

After all. He did go off with concussion. 

 

At the time none of were aware that he was concussed but when one our players stayed down (we couldn’t tell who it was) to receive treatment a groan went up and one guy said ‘I bet it’s Baker’.....and lo and behold it was indeed Baker going off  -  again.......

A lengthy discussion took place at half time about ‘sick note’ Baker going off  early once more but I kept quiet about the same thing happening at Villa.

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Not saying you’re wrong chief - but you’ve just posted a link to a report from The Bristol Post - a publication that has called our home ground “Aston Gate” and has called our club “Bistol City” and has called our record appearance holder “Lewis Carey” and has called our owner “Landsdown” .... their attention to detail is not exactly top notch and that report doesn’t list the 20 games

You could of course go and check yourself?  When I say check yourself, I don’t mean check yourself, I mean check a reputable source:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nathan-baker/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/62638/verein/698

Heres a head-start....it’s quite a lot of times!!

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On 07/03/2020 at 15:20, Robbored said:

What’s the matter with the guy? Is he made of glass ffs.........:disapointed2se:

Im struggling to remember when he last played a full 90 mins

I did hear from a reliable source that Baker had the same injury issues at Villa and they felt that his injuries were in his head and they wanted him to see a psychologist but he refused...................:cool2:.

Thats one hell of a statement there babber. Prior to knowing the facts. 

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

At the time none of were aware that he was concussed but when one our players stayed down (we couldn’t tell who it was) to receive treatment a groan went up and one guy said ‘I bet it’s Baker’.....and lo and behold it was indeed Baker going off  -  again.......

A lengthy discussion took place at half time about ‘sick note’ Baker going off  early once more but I kept quiet about the same thing happening at Villa.

Still no admission that you got it wrong then.

Maybe you, and your 'mates' did come to this conclusion. Again, prior to knowing the facts of the matter. 

To also insinuate that there was a connection with the, 'Villa' mental thing was shocking. 

You are obviously refusing to acknowledge that you got it wrong. 

No probs. I'll give up in giving you the opportunity to admit it. 

Shame really. That's why I mentioned in previous posts that you should of waited to hear why he went off. 

I can see now, unfortunately why most think you talk rubbish. 

It takes a man to admit when he's got it wrong. 

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You could of course go and check yourself?  When I say check yourself, I don’t mean check yourself, I mean check a reputable source:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nathan-baker/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/62638/verein/698

Heres a head-start....it’s quite a lot of times!!

I only count 12 times where Bakes has played less than 45 minutes, (in the league) and I believe that 1 of them is a red, he's gone off at half time a fair chunk, and I'm sure probably a couple of them are due to injury but we all know how often Johnson has to rip up his system at half time as its all wrong so I would hazard a large chunk are "tactical" (for clarity I ignored the 2 games in a row where he played a total of 3 minutes, as I can only assume that they were late subs on)

I've said it before and before we decide he has mental issues are we sure he as a player does not just understand his body and is unwilling to play through and potentially make it worse? Let's face it if Man U, finish 6th and England are crap at the Euros how happy will everyone be that Rashford played through an injury and ****** himself? 

Most players will pick up a minor injury and then push though usually ending up with a worse injury as a result, are we sure that Baker just isn't willing to do that as he's had plenty of injuries in the past?

Does he come of more than most, yep. Even with that in mind he should still be one of the first names on the team sheet as the man is a bloody good centre back and will put his head in where none of our other defenders will. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

I only count 12 times where Bakes has played less than 45 minutes, (in the league) and I believe that 1 of them is a red, he's gone off at half time a fair chunk, and I'm sure probably a couple of them are due to injury but we all know how often Johnson has to rip up his system at half time as its all wrong so I would hazard a large chunk are "tactical" (for clarity I ignored the 2 games in a row where he played a total of 3 minutes, as I can only assume that they were late subs on)

I've said it before and before we decide he has mental issues are we sure he as a player does not just understand his body and is unwilling to play through and potentially make it worse? Let's face it if Man U, finish 6th and England are crap at the Euros how happy will everyone be that Rashford played through an injury and ****** himself? 

Most players will pick up a minor injury and then push though usually ending up with a worse injury as a result, are we sure that Baker just isn't willing to do that as he's had plenty of injuries in the past?

Does he come of more than most, yep. Even with that in mind he should still be one of the first names on the team sheet as the man is a bloody good centre back and will put his head in where none of our other defenders will. 

 

Unfortunately Spud it’s not as simple as that. 

Baker had a similar pattern of going off early at Villa. It’s a long standing issue with him. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Unfortunately Spud it’s not as simple as that. 

Baker had a similar pattern of going off early at Villa. It’s a long standing issue with him. 

 

I never said it wasn't a long standing issue, just because it is does not mean it has to be psycological. 

It could all relate to his long standing back issues, as that can translate into continual injury problems. Lee Matthews was one of the most naturally gifted strikers I have ever seen at AG bar probably Tammy, but he had a long standing back issue that plagued his entire career meaning he was never far away from his next injury lay off, and they usually lasted weeks or months, if Baker has a similar issue with his back then rather than be out for weeks or months at a time it could be that he decides to come off when he feels something is about to go rather than waiting until it does. 

The way people act its as if the man goes off every game, when it is although more often than we would like it's really not that bad. 

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12 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Maybe so, but firstly it HAS been discussed at length on here before. Odd timing to bring it up after a run of months without going off injured and only doing so because of an apparent concussion?

Secondly like I say, someone whose worked in that profession should know better than ridicule a guy with a “certain” psychological problem.

perhaps if the aim was to make people aware of this inside secret then the thread could have worded better with a bit more compassion rather than title it with “sick note”. I’m sure no footballer enjoys being injured, especially if it’s something that cant just be fixed with surgery/treatment like a physical problem might.

Did he? I didn't read it like that. 

There has long been talk (could be rumour on here - I don't know but his time at AV has been mentioned in the past) about NB's injury problems and whether it is more psychological than physical, CoD has been 'accused' of the same by LJ. I would think it means 'not to play through injury' as some other players might do. I'm not condemning NB or CoD for not (before anyone starts), they know their body better than anyone else. 

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1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

I never said it wasn't a long standing issue, just because it is does not mean it has to be psycological. 

It could all relate to his long standing back issues, as that can translate into continual injury problems. Lee Matthews was one of the most naturally gifted strikers I have ever seen at AG bar probably Tammy, but he had a long standing back issue that plagued his entire career meaning he was never far away from his next injury lay off, and they usually lasted weeks or months, if Baker has a similar issue with his back then rather than be out for weeks or months at a time it could be that he decides to come off when he feels something is about to go rather than waiting until it does. 

The way people act its as if the man goes off every game, when it is although more often than we would like it's really not that bad. 

Back issues affect so many parts of the body. 

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6 hours ago, Spud55 said:

I only count 12 times where Bakes has played less than 45 minutes, (in the league) and I believe that 1 of them is a red, he's gone off at half time a fair chunk

@Spud55 This was posted last September so has since increased but look at post 122 it was 8 BEFORE half time and 7 DURING half time, not including reds 

 

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17 hours ago, Robbored said:

I was not ridiculing Baker at all - that’s your twisted perception of what I was pointing out and since then this thread has developed into and interesting read with several posters appreciating my point but it seems you’re not one of them.
 

“What’s wrong with this guy”

”is he made of glass ffs”

”sick note”

Then a smarmy sunglasses emoji after saying he had psychological issues

I’d say that’s ridiculing him by the definition to mock or make fun of someone.

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14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

That's a crazy amount.

I'm pretty certain it is not the same problem every time. Seems like it is often different parts of his body and he walks off.

He went off quite a bit when he was on loan with us too I think. I remember people talking about it and wondering if he wanted to play for us. But he was like that at Villa too.

It's one of the reasons I'd look to move him on. We need players we can rely on.

I don’t disagree that he does seem to go off an usual amount of times and I’ve said that above. What I took issue with is someone with a history working in mental health mocking someone for having (in that posters words) a psychological issue.

If he does have a problem in his head we should look to support him, in fact even if it was a physical problem we should. I doubt any player enjoys being injured whether it’s a physical problem or a mental one.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I don’t disagree that he does seem to go off an usual amount of times and I’ve said that above. What I took issue with is someone with a history working in mental health mocking someone for having (in that posters words) a psychological issue.

If he does have a problem in his head we should look to support him, in fact even if it was a physical problem we should. I doubt any player enjoys being injured whether it’s a physical problem or a mental one.

Marcus - I was not mocking him - that’s your twisted take on my point....,,..........:cool2:

Baker has been offered  ‘support’ at Villa but declined. Who knows if he’s been offered support at City as well but has also turned that down? Helping anyone who doesn’t want said help is a big problem.

The fact remains that it’s an issue that needs resolving.

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Harsh to criticise him for being ‘injury prone’ when he’s got what possibly could be a serious underlying concussion problem. LJ is clearly frustrated at the problem but I wouldn’t risk my health for a game of football. Hopefully Bakes will get it resolved as a fully fit Nathan Baker gets into any team in this division.

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Anyone actually know if he does have a psychological issue?

He might just not be up for playing through a slight knock.

Lee Johnson did suggest he didn't have a clue why he keeps coming off in one post match interview earlier in the season.

 

RR is “certain”

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Anyone actually know if he does have a psychological issue?

He might just not be up for playing through a slight knock.

Lee Johnson did suggest he didn't have a clue why he keeps coming off in one post match interview earlier in the season.

I think Baker himself doesn’t think it’s psychological and why he’s turned down offers of professional help.

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat........what would you conclude from that?

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3 hours ago, phantom said:

@Spud55 This was posted last September so has since increased but look at post 122 it was 8 BEFORE half time and 7 DURING half time, not including reds 

 

And how many games since then has Baker played and come off in the first half or even at half time in the league? It's once and that was on Saturday, so not sure what point you are trying to make? as I said I counted 12 times in the league that Baker played less than 45 minutes, and I now know for certain that one of them was Barnsley away when he actually came on with half and hour to go, so that's down to 11 and I can probably reduce that further if I could be arsed to go through every game he played less than 45 minutes. 

The half time subs are difficult as unless you actually remember an injury taking him off it is entirely possible that we have had to change system at half time, as that is hardly something we have not had to do numerous times over the past few years. So as I said I'm sure a few of them are injuries but some will not be as well. 

All I am saying is that people are making it out as if the man never completes 90 minutes, and that is clearly bollocks, does he go off more than most? Of course, but it's not as bad as people are making out. 

The loss of 1 sub really isn't the end of the world, as let's face it unless we are getting dicked Johnson makes a couple of subs between 63 and 80 minutes and then the pointless give Semenyo 30 seconds sub on 91+ minutes, so he's hardly having all his tactical options ripped away from him by Baker going off once in 6 months is he?

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4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat.... what would you conclude from that?

Unlike all our other long term "sick notes", that he is a quick healer and has amazing powers of recovery. ?

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19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think Baker himself doesn’t think it’s psychological and why he’s turned down offers of professional help.

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat........what would you conclude from that?

It's as well your not employed by the club any longer....

You may have been in line for a 'chat' with Lee in his office (minus the coffee).

You'd be able to give marks out of ten on family Johnson "Bollockometer".

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1 minute ago, Frenchay Red said:

Unlike all our other long term "sick notes", that he is a quick healer and has amazing powers of recovery. ?

Or that he simply comes off when he feels something before it goes, rather than just blindly carrying on. 

Look at most of the old football players who would play through anything just having a cortizone injection and now can barely walk as their knees are ****** beyond repair. 

Maybe Baker isn't willing to do that? 

How many games did Kalas miss because he played before he was ready? He's missed 11 games since his first injury this season (which saw him miss 9 games) both times because he played while still injured and not ready to play, how much better off could we be if he didn't play when not fit? 

Whereas Baker has come off in the first half twice this season. But has been back for the next game. 

Which one would you rather? 

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9 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

It's as well your not employed by the club any longer....

You may have been in line for a 'chat' with Lee in his office (minus the coffee).

You'd be able to give marks out of ten on family Johnson "Bollockometer".

I was never employed by the club Bob and I’d love a chat with LJ. We’d able to discuss the why and wherefores of Bakers issues............:cool2:

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10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I was never employed by the club Bob and I’d love a chat with LJ. We’d able to discuss the why and wherefores of Bakers issues............:cool2:

Your continued use of these snide emojis when discussing someone’s possible issues - either physical or mental - is crass and pathetic. Give it up. 

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2 hours ago, Spud55 said:

And how many games since then has Baker played and come off in the first half or even at half time in the league? It's once and that was on Saturday, so not sure what point you are trying to make? as I said I counted 12 times in the league that Baker played less than 45 minutes, and I now know for certain that one of them was Barnsley away when he actually came on with half and hour to go, so that's down to 11 and I can probably reduce that further if I could be arsed to go through every game he played less than 45 minutes. 

@Spud55 I'm not sure why you are ignoring the facts 

Follow the link i posted above and as mentioned look at post 122 it shows he STARTED the games as I numbered and went off in the first half 

It's VERY black and white there's a problem with his injuries 

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1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Or that he simply comes off when he feels something before it goes, rather than just blindly carrying on. 

Look at most of the old football players who would play through anything just having a cortizone injection and now can barely walk as their knees are ****** beyond repair. 

Maybe Baker isn't willing to do that? 

How many games did Kalas miss because he played before he was ready? He's missed 11 games since his first injury this season (which saw him miss 9 games) both times because he played while still injured and not ready to play, how much better off could we be if he didn't play when not fit? 

Whereas Baker has come off in the first half twice this season. But has been back for the next game. 

Which one would you rather? 

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

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5 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

I think in fairness to @Spud55 he’s debating whether it’s psychological or physical.

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13 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

I have never claimed he does not have injury problems, as  I have said numerous times in all of my posts, but I guess that's gone over your head somehow. What numerous facts and figures have I ignored? The ones I have pointed out where he has gone off before half time 11 times since he's been here? And as Phantom said something like 8 times at half time although we cannot be certain that all of them are injury related. 

As I have acknowledged he has gone off more than any other player, I just don't think that this necessarily meant he has mental issues, he could just know his own body and not be prepared to play through injury. 

I know its seen as a good thing generally to play through injury, but when you actually think about it it's really not, would we be in a better place if Kalas had missed 11 games instead of 9 when he was previously injured and come back fit rather than coming back carrying an injury and then relapsing and missing double the amount of games he may have done otherwise? Would we be better off if Nagy didn't play when not fit and just had his ankle op and came back the player he left or the shadow of the player he looks now? 

I am merely posing the point that maybe having a player who does go of "injured" more than others but is almost always then fit for the next game is not as deserving of the stick that Baker gets, if it isn't psychological it certainly makes Baker an oddity within sport as most sportsmen will often to their own detriment continue to compete through pain and make their injury worse. 

Just because someone offered him Psychological help at Villa, as I have no reason to doubt Robbored or the genuine nature of his source, does not mean that his problems are not physical, Villa might have got it wrong, hence the refusal. But none of us know that, as none of us know Nathan Baker, so i take issue with the ascertations that it must be psychological when there are perfectly reasonable physical explanations. 

The only thing that I have disagreed with in this thread is JonDolman asserting that Benkovic looks to be an upgrade currently on Baker which I do not agree with. 

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