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Nathan ‘sick note’ Baker


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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think the total differs depending on whether you include loan or not....but I can’t be arsed to check, as I’m not debating the numbers (most unlike me) 😂😂😂

Cheers - yes the stats in your link include 15/16 loan season.

Clearly shows he has subbed during the first half 8 times whilst playing for us.

Most likely more than anyone else in our squad, but not 19!

Edited by Alessandro
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16 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Cheers - yes the stats in your link include 15/16 loan season.

Clearly shows he has subbed during the first half 8 times whilst playing for us.

Most likely more than anyone else in our squad, but not 19!

Appears we were both wrong, no idea why I put 19 further up, it should have said 16 but none the less was 15 times

8 times during the first half and 7 times at half time

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30 minutes ago, phantom said:

Appears we were both wrong, no idea why I put 19 further up, it should have said 16 but none the less was 15 times

8 times during the first half and 7 times at half time

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I was quoting sub's during the first half with the number 8.

If we're adding half-time, yes another 7, however half time substitutions are more likely to have been a tactical one - very hard to call whether Baker was taken off at half time for injury reasons or if LJ was making a tactical change....

EDIT - just realised I put in original post at half time too, so apologies, should have read during first half, which was original argument being made.

Edited by Alessandro
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11 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I was quoting sub's during the first half with the number 8.

If we're adding half-time, yes another 7, however half time substitutions are more likely to have been a tactical one - very hard to call whether Baker was taken off at half time for injury reasons or if LJ was making a tactical change....

EDIT - just realised I put in original post at half time too, so apologies, should have read during first half, which was original argument being made.

I actually think we were agreeing, but I hate to say often my point gets lost in the way I write it on here

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On 21/09/2019 at 19:26, Alessandro said:

 

 

FAKE NEWS:

In 88 appearances for City, he has been subbed during the first half or at half time:

Once this season.

3 times last season.

4 the season before, once for Steele after Frankie got sent off, so really 3 times.

TOTAL: 7 (8)

Yes he's had his fair share of injuries and suspensions, but your stat is plain incorrect.

See below post from phantom. Saying only  7 substitutions is fake news. Implying the half time substitutions were tactical is farcical. 

43 minutes ago, phantom said:

Appears we were both wrong, no idea why I put 19 further up, it should have said 16 but none the less was 15 times

8 times during the first half and 7 times at half time

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I’m glad you’ve posted this. I originally said 16 times in the first half, based on the fact that I read about a year ago that he’d gone of 14 times in first half and since then he’d gone off twice more  (I included not coming back for the second half as meaning he went off at half time. I’ve tried to find the article that detailed his injury based substitutions but, as yet, I’ve been unsuccessful. It was a Bristol Post article so it’s out there somewhere 

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36 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

See below post from phantom. Saying only  7 substitutions is fake news. Implying the half time substitutions were tactical is farcical. 

I’m glad you’ve posted this. I originally said 16 times in the first half, based on the fact that I read about a year ago that he’d gone of 14 times in first half and since then he’d gone off twice more  (I included not coming back for the second half as meaning he went off at half time. I’ve tried to find the article that detailed his injury based substitutions but, as yet, I’ve been unsuccessful. It was a Bristol Post article so it’s out there somewhere 

I would think somewhere between 0-2 inclusive we’re tactical imho

Edited by Davefevs
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25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would think somewhere between 0-2 inclusive we’re tactical imho

I’m happy to settle for that. Whatever to true figure is, there must be a fundamental problem with Baker that results in the number of times he fails to last 90 minutes. There’s no real pattern to his injuries so he may be unlucky inasmuch as he’s just someone who has a body too weak for professional sport, or it may be physiological. Some players can play on with an injury and other can’t 

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2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

See below post from phantom. Saying only  7 substitutions is fake news. Implying the half time substitutions were tactical is farcical. 

I’m glad you’ve posted this. I originally said 16 times in the first half, based on the fact that I read about a year ago that he’d gone of 14 times in first half and since then he’d gone off twice more  (I included not coming back for the second half as meaning he went off at half time. I’ve tried to find the article that detailed his injury based substitutions but, as yet, I’ve been unsuccessful. It was a Bristol Post article so it’s out there somewhere 

What you originally said was he has been substituted 16 times in the first half - that is still incorrect - the number is 8.

I muddied the water by adding "and during half time" - which makes the answer now 14 or 15. I've put my hands up on that part, but the number 8 still stands as factual for during the first half.

I didn't say all the half time substitutions were tactical, but some may well have been if you look back at specific games, case in point when he came off for Steele when Frankie was sent off.

Still I think we all agree that it is more than anyone else in our squad and a high number.  

Edited by Alessandro
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35 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Wouldn't be surprised if every single sub was due to injury. 

I wonder if Baker earns himself a new contract. Think it is up end of next season. Really would not mind selling in the summer. Bring in a centre back more like Webster.

Yep runs out in Summer 2021.  Lot of time between now and then.  He’s played well this season and been an integral part.  I’m being a bit facetious when I say Baker has started 7 leagues games this season, all undefeated.  The 2 games he didn’t start....Leeds (League), QPR (Cup).

Think we have to judge whether this a minor knock, back quickly and a one-off....or whether it becomes commonplace.  If we get 7 out of him, miss 1 or 2, then another 7, miss 1 or 2, etc, etc, I think that is acceptable.  But that’s my view.

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep runs out in Summer 2021.  Lot of time between now and then.  He’s played well this season and been an integral part.  I’m being a bit facetious when I say Baker has started 7 leagues games this season, all undefeated.  The 2 games he didn’t start....Leeds (League), QPR (Cup).

Think we have to judge whether this a minor knock, back quickly and a one-off....or whether it becomes commonplace.  If we get 7 out of him, miss 1 or 2, then another 7, miss 1 or 2, etc, etc, I think that is acceptable.  But that’s my view.

I agree completely.  I think it's testament to Bakes that we've lost Kalas, but we've not felt the loss as badly as we were expecting.  He has been outstanding this season.  Shades of the Baker we thought we were signing.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep runs out in Summer 2021.  Lot of time between now and then.  He’s played well this season and been an integral part.  I’m being a bit facetious when I say Baker has started 7 leagues games this season, all undefeated.  The 2 games he didn’t start....Leeds (League), QPR (Cup).

Think we have to judge whether this a minor knock, back quickly and a one-off....or whether it becomes commonplace.  If we get 7 out of him, miss 1 or 2, then another 7, miss 1 or 2, etc, etc, I think that is acceptable.  But that’s my view.

I think he has been much more like the Baker we signed up till Xmas 2017. He had a poor 18 months, and now he seems back to the old Baker.

I do have concerns about the regular injuries. And really hope his form continues as it is.

I do think that LJ will want more ball playing centre backs in the future. Baker at 28, so i guess 30 when his deal expires. I predict he wont get a new deal.

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

What you originally said was he has been substituted 16 times in the first half - that is still incorrect - the number is 8.

 

I said it was approx 16 times that Baker had come off in the first half. If he goes off at half time and doesn’t come back that counts as going off in the first half for me. 
 

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4 minutes ago, scrumpy88 said:

My player of the season. 

The quiet unsung hero. Always puts his body on the line. Probably a little underrated due to his injuries. 

Difficult agree with the POTS shout given the number of games he has played but has been consistently good when on the pitch. Will be interesting to see who makes way for Benkovic as my personal feeling is that Williams remains in the team for his experience until such time as Kalas returns.

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I think he's been far better in the last 4 or so games. Even today he got caught a couple of times and then seemed to go into warrior mode last 30 mins. He was then outstanding like Reading game. 

Really hope he keeps this up. Nice problem for LJ.

For me though best defender overall this season has been Williams. Been solid in most games and played much more. He has been fantastic since Brentford nightmare imo.

Edited by JonDolman
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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think he's been far better in the last 4 or so games. Even today he got caught a couple of times and then seemed to go into warrior mode last 30 mins. He was then outstanding like Reading game. 

Really hope he keeps this up. Nice problem for LJ.

For me though best defender overall this season has been Williams. Been solid in most games and played much more. He has been fantastic since Brentford imo.

True i think kalas is a great player for us but interesting to note williams and Baker have been the pairing in our four clean sheets.

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3 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

True i think kalas is a great player for us but interesting to note williams and Baker have been the pairing in our four clean sheets.

I expect the plan is to play Kalas and the new guy. Bit hard to do at the moment though! 

To be fair if LJ wants to start trying to play more expansive and push up higher, play it out the back etc then by all means change it. But obviously would be harsh on the current pair. 

I am very intrigued as to what LJ is planning. 

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In a backs against the wall scenario he's the best we've got.  In fact, I'd back him more in a relentless "head it, kick it" period of play when we were really up against it for an extended period (such as today..) rather than an easier game where he's less called upon to be constantly engaged as a defender.  I think he has limitations for sure but I still really like Baker and personally speaking I hope he's not a victim of the recent signing as I think we're a stronger defensive unit with him than without, especially in tough games. 

Edited by Magicdaps
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25 minutes ago, Lez said:

Top player but clearly has some mental challenges with injuries....whether its him thinking he is sick or injured but against certain teams really useful.

Don’t agree with this - the paranoia about Baker and injuries is laughable on here - just been going through the matchday thread today and someone (think it may have been @Super) posted ‘Baker injured?’ - instantly @gordie jumps in with ‘What a surprise!’ - yet if he or she had been at Loftus Road they’d have seen Baker win an immense header, land awkwardly and just go off momentarily to recover from being winded. Was that alright with you @gordie ??!

The lazy ‘oh Baker’s injured again’ brigade are just lazy, misguided and ill-informed - @Up The City! even questioned Baker’s mental health on here recently regarding his perceived injuries!!! That was just pathetic yet predictable from her.

Nathan is a top defender at this level, he puts his body on the line and he gives everything. He is a better defender than Aden Flint and he’s the best centre half we have right now in my opinion .... just wish more of our fans could recognise his contribution ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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I saw somewhere that before today our points per game in games when baker has started is the same as West Brom’s points per game over the season. The games where he hasn’t started the points per game is considerably less. Unfortunately I can’t find the details right now

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Don’t agree with this - the paranoia about Baker and injuries is laughable on here - just been going through the matchday thread today and someone (think it may have been @Super) posted ‘Baker injured?’ - instantly @gordie jumps in with ‘What a surprise!’ - yet if he or she had been at Loftus Road they’d have seen Baker win an immense header, land awkwardly and just go off momentarily to recover from being winded - the lazy ‘oh Baker’s injured again’ brigade are just lazy, misguided and ill-informed - @Up The City! even questioned Baker’s mental health on here recently regarding his perceived injuries!!! 

Nathan is a top defender at this level, he puts his body on the line and he gives everything. He is a better defender than Aden Flint and he’s the best centre half we have right now in my opinion .... just wish more of our fans could recognise his contribution ...

Hes a top defender against a certain type of team.....if you're playing against a hugill jutkievitcz Smith etc then yes.

Against teams will quick pacey strikes he gets found out which is ultimately why he is a good championship defender at this level.

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Baker has been very good.

Regarding injuries - I am certain he is a player who is 100% aware of his body, and when he goes off, it's not because he is 'weak' or 'mentally soft'  but knows that a minor tweak could lead to a 4 week strain if he doesn't ice himself up.

So he goes off to stop a minor problem becoming a month long issue.

Some players are much better than others at knowing when to rest a niggle, or play on and risk a far worst injury.

Bailey Wright being a perfect example.

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