Jump to content
IGNORED

Learning another language as an adult?


BRISTOL86

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

This is a very good point.

I can remember my wife trying to explain how and why you construct a sentence to someone trying to learn French and they weren't interested saying just teach me some things to say and I'll build on that. It's not how it works and something I'll admit I fall down on. My French is like listening to a foreign football manager do an interview,  you can understand all of it but it's full if grammatical mistakes.

French is a lot stricter with its grammar rules and sentence structure (I mean look at the way they ask a question, it's ridiculous!), whereas English can be a lot more "laissez-faire". 

I would say Spanish is a lot easier to learn for an English speaker, similar structures etc...and easier to pronounce. 

Just don't sound like the ones in the Costa Brava who make no effort with the accent. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Yes mate definitely, I guess it's a combination of they've learnt before and its been successful so have no hang ups wheres for us it can be a bit daunting. Plus they would have had English and Dutch on their TVs etc all their lives while we only hear another language when we're abroad.

I know a lot of Brits are just lazy and as you said before there's nothing more annoying than seeing Brits make no effort when basic politeness in another language is so easy. But I have genuinely seen many retired people throw loads of money on 1 to 1 lessons in a desperate attempt to become near fluent only to fall way short. They learn enough to get by in shops and exchange greetings with neighbours but a trip to CPAM or the like is too much for them

Agree 100%

The other thing that bugs us is if we are in the PMU for a coffee and other Brits hear us talking they all of a sudden want to be best mates. All we want is to have our drink in peace.

I also find that alot of them resort to being rude when they can't make themselves understood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

French is a lot stricter with its grammar rules and sentence structure (I mean look at the way they ask a question, it's ridiculous!), whereas English can be a lot more "laissez-faire". 

I would say Spanish is a lot easier to learn for an English speaker, similar structures etc...and easier to pronounce. 

Just don't sound like the ones in the Costa Brava who make no effort with the accent. ?

Accent is a big problem. We have a friend who's French is quite good but not when spoken with a broad Northern Irish lilt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

French is a lot stricter with its grammar rules and sentence structure (I mean look at the way they ask a question, it's ridiculous!), whereas English can be a lot more "laissez-faire". 

I would say Spanish is a lot easier to learn for an English speaker, similar structures etc...and easier to pronounce. 

Just don't sound like the ones in the Costa Brava who make no effort with the accent. ?

As we lived close to the Spanish border we would regularly visit the Costa Brava, we crammed in some basic Spanish only to find out they spoke Catalan. We did find a lot, especially close to the French border spoke French too, so at least we didn't have to sound like lazy English in conversation.

But yes, on visits I've often thought Spanish would be relatively easy after French. I'd love to speak Italian and can understand a bits of written Italian when I'm there but not sure how easy it would be to learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/03/2020 at 19:47, BRISTOL86 said:

Who has done it and what method did you use? Class/self-learning through books/website? 

I have a friend who receives lessons in French and Spanish on iTalki, and swears by it. I am even tempted to apply to be a teacher on there for some £ when I finish my studies as I have the appropriate Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) qualification. 

Depends on your budget, but can often be cheaper and more convenient as it is through webcam, you’ll just need a decent internet connection for Skype. If you are learning Spanish you can get ridiculously cheap lessons from South Americans.

 https://www.italki.com

As mentioned above there is nothing better than full immersion to learn a language. But platforms such as Duolingo can only take you so far, and I can’t imagine they can’t bring you to a full conversational level (correct me if I am wrong). I feel this is the way forward to bridge the gap. 

10 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

As we lived close to the Spanish border we would regularly visit the Costa Brava, we crammed in some basic Spanish only to find out they spoke Catalan. We did find a lot, especially close to the French border spoke French too, so at least we didn't have to sound like lazy English in conversation.

But yes, on visits I've often thought Spanish would be relatively easy after French. I'd love to speak Italian and can understand a bits of written Italian when I'm there but not sure how easy it would be to learn.

I would imagine the same amount of time for Spanish or Portuguese. I was in a B2 class for Spanish at the start of when I spent a year in Granada. I had only been doing Spanish for 2 years but had picked it up very quickly because of my level of French. Some of the other foreigners had studied it in for several years. By contrast, the Italian girl had only started it in the 2 months she had already been in Granada, and had bypassed all the beginner and intermediate levels and gone straight to upper-intermediate. When the whole class acted in shock when she said, the teacher said it is pretty commonplace as all the structures, functions and grammar are pretty much identical. I am certain this would be the same in European Portuguese, which is next on my list!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

II speak fluent Brummie and Devonian. 

As others have said immersing yourself in the local culture helps, but initially struggled with random words that people snuck into conservations to throw you off the trail... ‘duck’ and ‘outdoor’ as examples.

Dabbling in Spanish now. Started with short (free) You Tube videos - numbers and basic words/phrases. Now moved on to an audiobook. Far from fluent but surprised myself as to how many words/phrases you retain in your sub-conscience from very limited, unstructured learning ‘sessions’. Borderline enjoyable doing it this way too (no teacher chucking a blackboard rubber at you as per my French learning experience) and, oddly, does give you some kind of ‘kick’ from developing knowledge. 

Well-worthwhile overall and - this maybe just me - the self-satisfaction of communicating with someone in their Country using their own language, with them thinking you are a native, is off the scale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RedRock said:

II speak fluent Brummie and Devonian. 

As others have said immersing yourself in the local culture helps, but initially struggled with random words that people snuck into conservations to throw you off the trail... ‘duck’ and ‘outdoor’ as examples.

Dabbling in Spanish now. Started with short (free) You Tube videos - numbers and basic words/phrases. Now moved on to an audiobook. Far from fluent but surprised myself as to how many words/phrases you retain in your sub-conscience from very limited, unstructured learning ‘sessions’. Borderline enjoyable doing it this way too (no teacher chucking a blackboard rubber at you as per my French learning experience) and, oddly, does give you some kind of ‘kick’ from developing knowledge. 

Well-worthwhile overall and - this maybe just me - the self-satisfaction of communicating with someone in their Country using their own language, with them thinking you are a native, is off the scale.

I get a great kick when a local compliments me on my French. Really boosts the confidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also as I have this tab still open, 

Duolingo is good up to beginner level. You will not use what you learn from Duolingo in practical use so it's good to see how things look but then to ween yourself off and onto youtube videos (thats how I did it). 

After about 3-4 months of learning I was very intrigued to find out how the sentence structure is built so I went down that route and focused on Grammar for a few months. 

Looking back, I did no where near as much grammar as other people did when I was studying in German classes yet I could speak the language a lot better and faster than the people in my class. This was essentially due to isolating myself and only living in a mini Germany of sorts. 

It's just a lot of discipline and self learning and after a year you'll get to a level where instead of it looking like random words, that you can understand a whole film etc. I often go to the cinema over here and only watch films in German and can understand everything

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/03/2020 at 16:29, Kid in the Riot said:

Same. Tried learning Spanish a few years ago but didn't get too far. Ultimately, I think you really need to immerse yourself in it and that's tricky when you don't live in the country where the language is spoken.

I agree, I used to have a home on Spain that I spent all time off work at. Over a decade my Spanish become ‘workable’ far from fluent but sufficient to get by even with interactions with local councils and trades people etc.

House is long gone but I still go to Spain on holiday once a year - love the place - but my language skills have diminished significantly, mainly because spending less time there and not needing to deal with issues outside of being a holiday maker! E.g ordering drinks and food!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/03/2020 at 21:19, BigTone said:

I speak French to an advanced level. I did this through self learning when I moved to France although spoke about 4 words when we first arrived (I was 46). Try watching a show on TV or DVD in French and turn on the English sub titles and listen to the radio etc when out in the car. For numbering I went to Lotto (Bingo) and picked it up that way. I can easily count to 10,000 in French now. Immerse yourself in their way of life and culture and you will pick it up quicker than you expect. My French got me a very nice job in Morocco for a couple of years (French is the business language there).  I also speak both Arabic and Japanese to a beginners level. Made a couple of great friends in Saudi simply because I tried to converse (Riyadh Chief of Traffic Police being one). In fairness most of them have a good level of English also even though I turned down his offer of marriage to his (rather attractive) Daughter !!

Most of all try and converse with the natives in their language and generally they will help you back. If you muck up then hey ho, I have done so many times !!!  Thought I told one lady in France that I was feeling hot when in fact I told her I was feeling randy !! We still laugh about it today and I still feel randy when I see her !!!

Ah Yes,

Je suis ou j'ai chaud.

Try telling somebody (in French) that the reason English bread stays fresher longer is because we put more preservatives in it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Ah Yes,

Je suis ou j'ai chaud.

Try telling somebody (in French) that the reason English bread stays fresher longer is because we put more preservatives in it!

Phillip please keep it clean !!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/03/2020 at 09:20, BigTone said:

If talking on the telephone I very often ask them to talk slowly so I can understand fully what they are saying. The exception to that is the ones who ring 5 times a day asking if I want insulation in my roof !! They get a slightly different response !!

What does annoy me is the number of Brits (and others) who do not try and pick up the language when they come to live here. One guy I know has been here as long as us and his French extends to ca va. Another who has been there longer cannot even order a drink when she goes to the bar. One day on the Metro in Paris we met a South African woman who was moaning that everyone only spoke French. Listening to my Wife tell her what she thought was highly amusing to say the least.

 

You miserable old so-and-so.

It only costs 1€ ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

You miserable old so-and-so.

It only costs 1€ ?

If you earn less than about €200 per year !!  No such thing as a free lunch. And whats more we have 4 houses so thats €4 ....... bloody rip off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/03/2020 at 19:47, BRISTOL86 said:

Who has done it and what method did you use? Class/self-learning through books/website? 

A pretty effective, and free, method is Duolingo. Duolingo for web is far less restrictive than the web app, if you commit 10/15 mins a day you'll pick up a decent amount of vocab plus grammar rules. Once you have this down you can then try duolingo podcasts in your chosen language or videos.

I think to fully grasp a language you need to speak it with a native speaker - for most languages you can find social meets or classes to practice speaking if you do a bit of digging. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/03/2020 at 20:37, marcofisher said:

I get the impression that they are also far better educated in the grammar of their own langage.

This allows you to identify different units in a sentence more effectively when learning other languages as well as their functions.  

I have a degree in French and Spanish and have almost finished my masters in translation.

It made me realise that learning another language increases one's grasp of English tenfold. I would hazard a guess that 95% of Brits would struggle if asked to identify different units of a sentence and tenses.

I agree entirely.

I often wonder, when English people stress about, e.g. subjunctives, whether they fail to realise they use subjunctives on an almost daily basis without even realising it.

I studied Latin to O Level, and whilst I wouldn't recommend it to anybody today, it has certainly helped me to understand foreign (Latin-rooted) languages and, indeed, the construction of sentences in German.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...