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GTFABM

Season Ticket refund

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Probably not an easy answer but has anyone read through the T’s and C’s of your season ticket to have an idea if season is cancelled if there will be a refund for remaining games? Apologies if it’s already in the Coronavirus thread.

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5 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Probably not an easy answer but has anyone read through the T’s and C’s of your season ticket to have an idea if season is cancelled if there will be a refund for remaining games? Apologies if it’s already in the Coronavirus thread.

Have posted the idea of refund to the SLO to take to the board. He promises an update.

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3 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Have posted the idea of refund to the SLO to take to the board. He promises an update.

let’s hope it doesn’t get that far and we can get the season done i guess.

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My guess is that for now the season has been postponed so there will be no refunds.  The games will eventually take place.

If the season is cancelled, I'm fairly sure that there will be no refunds either.

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1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said:

My guess is that for now the season has been postponed so there will be no refunds.  The games will eventually take place.

If the season is cancelled, I'm fairly sure that there will be no refunds either.

Yeah agree it’s premature and i hope the season gets finished especially with the euros being postponed. Just didn’t know if it said anything in the small print. Clearly not the clubs fault so harsh for them to lose a massive amountbof money if they had to refund.

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2 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

Well if they do cancel the season, I would want any refund that is due,if due, to go to charity,I’ve already paid for it so wouldn’t miss the money. Children’s Hospice or Hospital would do nicely.

Very valid point, and this would be a great gesture from our club

"IF" the season gets cancelled, I wonder if other clubs that really rely on this income, whether they will ask supporters to let them keep the money to help them survive?

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The uncertainty of this situation makes an immediate decision unlikely. I know we would all like our money back but no one knows how long this will go on. Until the EFL make a decision on this season, City have to just wait. There may not be any more games this season or even next season if it escalates too much.

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2 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Yeah agree it’s premature and i hope the season gets finished especially with the euros being postponed. Just didn’t know if it said anything in the small print. Clearly not the clubs fault so harsh for them to lose a massive amountbof money if they had to refund.

Can't believe there would be anything in the T&C's about a league not being completed

A pandemic was certainly not expected to hit the whole world, I guess the only similar event could have been a world war

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

Can't believe there would be anything in the T&C's about a league not being completed

A pandemic was certainly not expected to hit the whole world, I guess the only similar event could have been a world war

Cancellation works both ways though. If we cancelled we would be expected to pay in full still so wasn’t sure if there was something the other way. 

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Very valid point, and this would be a great gesture from our club

"IF" the season gets cancelled, I wonder if other clubs that really rely on this income, whether they will ask supporters to let them keep the money to help them survive?

I expect quite a few of the smaller club’s fans would be willing to do so,it could actually save them from going under.

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I think we have about 14000 or 15000 season ticket holders,at say an average of say £50,that’s about £700,000,WOW,what a difference that would make.

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4 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

I think we have about 14000 or 15000 season ticket holders,at say an average of say £50,that’s about £700,000,WOW,what a difference that would make.

We’ve never seen the split of age group and free tickets.

I’m only guessing that there is a decent proportion of free and u12/u19 cheaper Season Cards....but you’re talking 20% of games missed if no more home games (5/23).

Edited by Davefevs

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10 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Cancellation works both ways though. If we cancelled we would be expected to pay in full still so wasn’t sure if there was something the other way. 

I wouldn't expect so.

The vast majority pay for their season card up front, I guess it is no difference to anyone missing a game due to holiday / illness etc

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15 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

let’s hope it doesn’t get that far and we can get the season done i guess.

Sorry guys, not clear from me.

I requested SLO to seek a total refund for  those who have already paid for NEXT season's tickets who may suffer financial difficulties in the future due to loss of earnings.

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As the Euros are now confirmed off for this year then depending if the worst of this is over in May we may have enough room to see out 5-8 games, even with summer hols truncated.

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4 minutes ago, phantom said:

I wouldn't expect so.

The vast majority pay for their season card up front, I guess it is no difference to anyone missing a game due to holiday / illness etc

It’s a bit different though isn’t it

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20 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

Well if they do cancel the season, I would want any refund that is due,if due, to go to charity,I’ve already paid for it so wouldn’t miss the money. Children’s Hospice or Hospital would do nicely.

A lot might welcome some money back at the moment.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We’ve never seen the split of age group and free tickets.

I’m only guessing that there is a decent proportion of free and u12/u19 cheaper Season Cards.

I’ve tried to average it out Davefevs,my ticket works out at roughly £15 a game in the South stand,5 games left equals £75.With the other stand being more expensive ,who knows,all I do know is it would be a considerable sum of money.

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8 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

I think we have about 14000 or 15000 season ticket holders,at say an average of say £50,that’s about £700,000,WOW,what a difference that would make.

I would go higher than that

OK these are next seasons figures, but on these prices the 'mean' average figure on adult tickets is £20

image.png

 

 

We have 5 home games left so would be double what you used - nearer £100 a person

Obviously this seasons prices are slightly less and this doesn't factor in all the concessionary tickets

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3 minutes ago, Super said:

A lot might welcome some money back at the moment.

Yes I realise that Super,just that if I had the choice that’s what I’d want.

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4 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Sorry guys, not clear from me.

I requested SLO to seek a total refund for  those who have already paid for NEXT season's tickets who may suffer financial difficulties in the future due to loss of earnings.

This thread is talking about refunds on THIS seasons season ticket IF the season is cancelled

Something different to the question that you raised. I fully understand your question, I assume those that have paid upfront will have already had their transactions completed?

Getting a refund on this money would be down to some kind of Government ruling I would imagine

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7 minutes ago, phantom said:

I would go higher than that

OK these are next seasons figures, but on these prices the 'mean' average figure on adult tickets is £20

image.png

 

 

We have 5 home games left so would be double what you used - nearer £100 a person

Obviously this seasons prices are slightly less and this doesn't factor in all the concessionary tickets

So if only half agreed to do so,we’re still talking big bucks,especially as if we do get into a recession,charities will be hit hard.

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How about this for all those who pay by monthly direct debit and pay £25 to do so.

Cancel the direct debit and see if Mr L comes a calling.........

Might well give it a go myself. Imagine that conversation with some poor soul from Bristol Sport.....😳

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1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

Probably not an easy answer but has anyone read through the T’s and C’s of your season ticket to have an idea if season is cancelled if there will be a refund for remaining games? Apologies if it’s already in the Coronavirus thread.

Get that, not sure what the club will or can do about it. Im more worried ive forked out for a new 2020/21 ticket and football wont start in August?

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, phantom said:

This thread is talking about refunds on THIS seasons season ticket IF the season is cancelled

Something different to the question that you raised. I fully understand your question, I assume those that have paid upfront will have already had their transactions completed?

Getting a refund on this money would be down to some kind of Government ruling I would imagine

Or the generosity of corporate or individual bodies.  🤞

Quick calculation of 14,000 STs sold to date. Half claiming refund on avg of £500 think comes to £3.5 million. Big bucks to us but not to everyone.

I'm sure any recipient of a refund will purchase a ST when/if next season comes around.

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My guess would be that this season will be completed, whether it's in front of fans or not, that's the question.
I also suspect that it will be a condensed finish where two games are played per week.

As to refunds, I can see a 'credit' being issued and that can be used to buy City merchandise, beer tokens etc. i.e. the business still keeps it but fans feel that they've got something back.

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10 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

My guess would be that this season will be completed, whether it's in front of fans or not, that's the question.
I also suspect that it will be a condensed finish where two games are played per week.

As to refunds, I can see a 'credit' being issued and that can be used to buy City merchandise, beer tokens etc. i.e. the business still keeps it but fans feel that they've got something back.

Didn’t think of this solution! Good idea that.

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Chance are Force majeure, but I''ve also read online that English law doesn't contain Force majeure- but Internet eh!

However, the Club Charter indicates the following:

Quote

RETURNS/REFUNDS

Match tickets are non-refundable apart from in exceptional circumstances, in which case our Supporter Services team will assess each case on its individual merits. In the event of a refund being agreed the club must receive the tickets back prior to the day of the game. NO refunds will be given after the purchase of a season ticket.

I don't know the status of Force Majeure in English law but I assume that this is covered in some respect through this.

Basic definition:

Quote

Force majeure. The happening of events outside the control of the parties, for example, natural disasters or the outbreak of hostilities. It is usual for parties to provide in a contract that such events will not make the defaulting party liable if they prevent it from performing its obligations.

I believe that there is no legal obligation/compulsion on the part of a club basically.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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As players and staff of clubs will expect to be paid their wages , any refunds could have a devastating effect on financies. Only today Barnet have announced that 60 of their non playing staff have been made redundant. Many more clubs could follow over the next weeks if they can not generate income.

Edited by fatchers
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The money is gone anyway - would rather see some form of competition to decide the championship - if the league does not Allow the remaining games to be played with spectators that’s fine with me - as long as we are not asked to pay for streaming! 
Any revenue surplus could then be shared with local grass root sports, starting with our own Accadamy!

Slightest chance we could end up getting to the Prem - go for it!

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The season will be played to a finish, at some time.

Now the next question could be, will refunds be available for rearranged games the same as if a concert is postponed/cancelled ? I would doubt it , I imagine it would be treated the same as any rearranged fixture that may have been called off for other reasons. 

As I understand it, the plan is to get domestic and European games completed then have a month gap for July before the season starts in August. There is a lot of talking to be done though, contracts usually run until June 30th, so carrying the season over into July would mean many sides having to agree on how to do it. But with a bit of juggling the season will be completed.

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3 hours ago, NOTBLUE said:

Well if they do cancel the season, I would want any refund that is due,if due, to go to charity,I’ve already paid for it so wouldn’t miss the money. Children’s Hospice or Hospital would do nicely.

I'd be happy for this too. I suspect that even if this seasons final matches get played then, unless there is some miraculous cure, I may have seen my last game. I'm in an at risk category and my health (life) will take precedent over football. 

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In terms of the £s impact on City, looking at 2019’s accounts:

2644A849-2214-4EDF-A592-C3399C793B5C.thumb.jpeg.79c7708d2d1ffd5afa6a54f1800068a8.jpeg

5/23 pro-rata of £3,622,414 = £787,481 cost!!

in terms of average season card cost, based on 14.5k SC holders (irrespective of price / age band):

£249.82 average cost.

So average refund = £54.31

Good guesswork @NOTBLUE

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4 hours ago, sephjnr said:

As the Euros are now confirmed off for this year then depending if the worst of this is over in May we may have enough room to see out 5-8 games, even with summer hols truncated.

I don't think this will be over by May.

I'm more concerned about the £500 I've just forked out for next season, which I think might not happen.

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Chance are Force majeure, but I''ve also read online that English law doesn't contain Force majeure- but Internet eh!

However, the Club Charter indicates the following:

I don't know the status of Force Majeure in English law but I assume that this is covered in some respect through this.

Basic definition:

I believe that there is no legal obligation/compulsion on the part of a club basically.

When did that change Mr P? I used to have Force Majeure as a condition in the Contracts I used to draft and they were based on English law

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This is a situation I thought I'd never see, even at City! 

Paid for my season card on Sunday, thread on getting a refund for it on Tuesday.

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2 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

This is a situation I thought I'd never see, even at City! 

Paid for my season card on Sunday, thread on getting a refund for it on Tuesday.

I meant it as a thread for potential refund on this seasons tickets IF the season got cancelled.

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10 minutes ago, Busterrimes said:

When did that change Mr P? I used to have Force Majeure as a condition in the Contracts I used to draft and they were based on English law

It’s in my contract.

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3 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

I meant it as a thread for potential refund on this seasons tickets IF the season got cancelled.

Yeah I get that, though there was a post saying they'd asked about next season. 

I was just trying to be light hearted in what is a bit of a grim time

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1 hour ago, Busterrimes said:

When did that change Mr P? I used to have Force Majeure as a condition in the Contracts I used to draft and they were based on English law

FM clauses are still used. 

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2 hours ago, Busterrimes said:

When did that change Mr P? I used to have Force Majeure as a condition in the Contracts I used to draft and they were based on English law

Okay thanks. 

Had read one or two things online, but it seems like I thought maybe the case, the Internet wrong. Force majeure would clearly cover this then. 

In which case, would it cover the Sky and football contracts I wonder- hence saving a shitload of legal issues?

I did mention force majeure last week as possible but wasn't sure either way.

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To clarify my law confusion. 

It said force majeure isn't part of English common law once I looked again. I skimread it, law verbatim was what I thought.I 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In terms of the £s impact on City, looking at 2019’s accounts:

2644A849-2214-4EDF-A592-C3399C793B5C.thumb.jpeg.79c7708d2d1ffd5afa6a54f1800068a8.jpeg

5/23 pro-rata of £3,622,414 = £787,481 cost!!

in terms of average season card cost, based on 14.5k SC holders (irrespective of price / age band):

£249.82 average cost.

So average refund = £54.31

Good guesswork @NOTBLUE

Are those figures for the years the wrong way round? I find it difficult to believe last years matchday revenue was over a million down on 2018.

Edited by pillred
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4 hours ago, pillred said:

Are those figures for the years the wrong way round? I find it difficult to believe last years matchday revenue was over a million down on 2018.

The cup games?

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I’m really regretting buying my season ticket for next season, I’m self employed and think my works going to dry up soon. Would’ve been really handy to have that money in my account still.

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I read something a couple of weeks ago that if games are resumed and played behind closed doors that season ticket holders would receive free streaming of the game. ( therefore no refunds)

Imo this season will finish before August and next season will start in Sept / Oct.

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