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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I have to say, until scientists have been able to do more analysis, we don't know who or what caused the virus. We may never know. The causes of many great pandemics, including "Spanish flu", are just conjecture.

The dominant theory is that it began in Wuhan in November/December and may have some connection to the city's "wet market" and either bats or pangolins.

But there are problems with this: the form of bat coronavirus found in the kind of bats eaten in central China is only 96% a DNA match with Covid-19. That isn't normally close enough for a mutated virus to "jump species". As for pangolins, it's the scales that are ground up and used in (already banned) traditional medicine. These would be very unlikely to carry the virus, and pangolins only have a 90.3%match with the genetic material carried by Covid-19. Unlikely that they are either its direct source or even the "bridge" to forest bats. They are critically endangered for one thing.

Also, multiple reports suggest that neither bats or pangolins were sold in the wet market in Wuhan. Bat-eating being much more of a rural thing; something that is dying out in modern China.

You don't need to blame the peculiar eating habits of some Chinese for these zoonotic diseases. They are much more likely to come from everyday farm animals that everyone eats: chickens (SARS/MERS); pigs (Swine Fever), etc.

Moreover, research on many virus outbreaks has suggested they may have circulated for decades at a low-level before a mutation made them more dangerous and a "super-spreader" burst them into an epidemic. Although AIDS was first identified in New York in 1981, evidence now shows it was present in the Congo basin area in the 1930s and had reached the US by the 1960s. Deaths from it were chalked up to different causes.

So I personally wouldn't "blame China" for a virus mutation over which they would've had no control, and which may not even have originated there.

If there's blame to be attributed, we need to await the "inquest" on all this: and that may be years away.

I've told you before @Red-Robbo don't be bringing facts and logic into debates on here.

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25 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

It is stunning. Worth a visit when all this shite is behind us.

Makes you wonder when this is all over, if any of the airlines are still standing/flying, whether the age of low cost fights will be temporarily forgotten as Ryanair, EasyJet etc hike their fares up as people book like crazy....

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4 hours ago, Kykoliko said:

So, let me get this straight. You "hope China burns" because you think a virus was born because "some sick minded Chinese person" ate a bat or lizard? What makes them sick-minded to you?

You claimed that this has been predicted by "the experts" for many years. Despite the warnings, you have nothing to say about the governments that failed to adequately prepare?

Nothing to say about the people ignoring governmental instructions when they finally came?

Nothing to say about the fact that the situation in China has been relatively well managed, compared to the rest of the world?

 

If you truly want what is best for the world right now, please keep your narrow-minded, bigoted and downright xenophobic thoughts to yourself. We don't need people like you.

Watch pandemic on Netflix, scarily accurate. Was released 22nd January, but filmed over the last 2 years. 

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2 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Makes you wonder when this is all over, if any of the airlines are still standing/flying, whether the age of low cost fights will be temporarily forgotten as Ryanair, EasyJet etc hike their fares up as people book like crazy....

I was chatting to my boss yesterday about holidays, and it came up that even if you picked a place open for business for tourism, would there actually be a carrier able to take you there. In assessing the possible long term fall-out of this situation, the only limitation is one's imagination.

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3 hours ago, Vincent Vega said:

Only thing absurd here is your defense of China, the country of origin of this virus that's pretty much ****** the world.

You might like to have a look at your own government, who deemed it appropriate to allow holidaymakers to gallavant all over the place until a couple of weeks ago. 

That was reckless in the extreme. All for the sake of a bit of sun and ski. Ridiculous. 

They knew it was coming weeks ago. I certainly did and made plans to move out of my home 5 weeks ago. I'm glad I did. I stopped all unnecessary movement 4 weeks ago including Ashton Gate. Except there were 20,000 idiots there well after me. 

Blame the Chinese government if you have to. Not the Chinese. Our government are dangerous a**holes who care nothing for the poor, but I'm not having my name associated with them, any more than a chinese person should with their dictatorial government. 

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7 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Makes you wonder when this is all over, if any of the airlines are still standing/flying, whether the age of low cost fights will be temporarily forgotten as Ryanair, EasyJet etc hike their fares up as people book like crazy....

Or they will be so desperate to get people on their services that flights are even cheaper?

When all this first started to break many flights prices were dropping through the floor

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2 minutes ago, phantom said:

Or they will be so desperate to get people on their services that flights are even cheaper?

When all this first started to break many flights prices were dropping through the floor

Easyjet already offering £29 flights in their winter schedule for October.

 

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Or they will be so desperate to get people on their services that flights are even cheaper?

When all this first started to break many flights prices were dropping through the floor

I think demand will be there, but supply will be limited. The risk of another surge in Coronavirus will be ever-present and airlines will want to be much smaller and financially frugal for the time being. 

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17 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

You might like to have a look at your own government, who deemed it appropriate to allow holidaymakers to gallavant all over the place until a couple of weeks ago. 

That was reckless in the extreme. All for the sake of a bit of sun and ski. Ridiculous. 

They knew it was coming weeks ago. I certainly did and made plans to move out of my home 5 weeks ago. I'm glad I did. I stopped all unnecessary movement 4 weeks ago including Ashton Gate. Except there were 20,000 idiots there well after me. 

Blame the Chinese government if you have to. Not the Chinese. Our government are dangerous a**holes who care nothing for the poor, but I'm not having my name associated with them, any more than a chinese person should with their dictatorial government. 

I can't blame my government for starting a worldwide pandemic.  They have no responsibility for it . Sorry you don't like it, but I and many others blame China simply because it's their fault.

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26 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I have to say, until scientists have been able to do more analysis, we don't know who or what caused the virus. We may never know. The causes of many great pandemics, including "Spanish flu", are just conjecture.

The dominant theory is that it began in Wuhan in November/December and may have some connection to the city's "wet market" and either bats or pangolins.

But there are problems with this: the form of bat coronavirus found in the kind of bats eaten in central China is only 96% a DNA match with Covid-19. That isn't normally close enough for a mutated virus to "jump species". As for pangolins, it's the scales that are ground up and used in (already banned) traditional medicine. These would be very unlikely to carry the virus, and pangolins only have a 90.3%match with the genetic material carried by Covid-19. Unlikely that they are either its direct source or even the "bridge" to forest bats. They are critically endangered for one thing.

Also, multiple reports suggest that neither bats or pangolins were sold in the wet market in Wuhan. Bat-eating being much more of a rural thing; something that is dying out in modern China.

You don't need to blame the peculiar eating habits of some Chinese for these zoonotic diseases. They are much more likely to come from everyday farm animals that everyone eats: chickens (SARS/MERS); pigs (Swine Fever), etc.

Moreover, research on many virus outbreaks has suggested they may have circulated for decades at a low-level before a mutation made them more dangerous and a "super-spreader" burst them into an epidemic. Although AIDS was first identified in New York in 1981, evidence now shows it was present in the Congo basin area in the 1930s and had reached the US by the 1960s. Deaths from it were chalked up to different causes.

So I personally wouldn't "blame China" for a virus mutation over which they would've had no control, and which may not even have originated there.

If there's blame to be attributed, we need to await the "inquest" on all this: and that may be years away.

What you can blame China for is that in this day and age is that there are so many starving people there that they have no choice but to eat bats and the like,tried it when I was travelling years ago and I thought that tastes effing awful(it was a blind taste) even rat tasted better 

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17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Easyjet already offering £29 flights in their winter schedule for October.

 

Like the mysterious cheap tickets on Eurostar that are almost impossible to find!  Who knows how this will end up.  Less planes, less seats, more demand, higher prices?

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1 hour ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

I saw a pic this morning from a friend who lives at Laguna Del Mar: some idiot was paddle-boarding up 7MB, clearly part of the "rules don't apply to me" camp.

Sad isn't it. IMO whether you agree with the restrictions or not you still have a duty to abide by them as a citizen (or in my case guest) in a country. I don't necessarily agree with the restrictions, but I'm acting as instructed regardless. Cayman is tiny as you know and with such limited hospital care if this thing gets out we'll be hit hard at a time where we cannot rely on the US or UK for assistance. 

I saw the reports of the 20k+ applications for waiver: not bad from a workforce that can't be much over 30k.

And the CIG had one bloke monitoring one email inbox to deal with them ?

My wife got over to England the day before the airport closed, but our dogs are still there, enjoying foster lockdown life at various places across the island.

Glad you managed to get your wife off the island. To be honest it's not been too bad here really. I've been fairly impressed with McLaughlin's leadership (for probably the first time sine moving here) - and he seemed embarrassed and exasperated at the number of "essential" applications the other day. Have to say I am glad I don't have a pet right now. 

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3 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

What you can blame China for is that in this day and age is that there are so many starving people there that they have no choice but to eat bats and the like,tried it when I was travelling years ago and I thought that tastes effing awful(it was a blind taste) even rat tasted better 

There are indeed lots to "blame" the government there for. Invading Tibet and virtually destroying its culture for one thing. I don't think we can necessarily blame 'em for a viral mutation though.

Interested you ate bat (and rat!), JJT.  I'd be too squeamish. I wimped out of the old locust-on-a-stick in Vietnam.

I'd be hopeless on I'm A Celebrity...

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20 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Like the mysterious cheap tickets on Eurostar that are almost impossible to find!  Who knows how this will end up.  Less planes, less seats, more demand, higher prices?

Cyprus from Bristol 28/10 - 08/11 for £57 return.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I can't blame my government for starting a worldwide pandemic.  They have no responsibility for it . Sorry you don't like it, but I and many others blame China simply because it's their fault.

The argument of a simpleton some might say. 

It wasn't a pandemic until the world ignored it. 

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Regarding the number of deaths dropping, the numbers were based on a much smaller window, rather than a full 24 hours. I think it went from 1pm the previous day to 9am . . . I'm sure the number of deaths in the 24 hour period were still higher. That's probably why it wasn't reported. 

I'd love to test myself with the new home testing kit. I am adamant I had something freakily similar 'over Christmas' - my Dad was even hospitalised with it just before. It was weird the way he was treated, but not until now I've ever really thought about it.

Cant explain it, but the whole thing makes me feel strange. I'm not a conspiracist, but I think this has been 'going round' a lot longer than we know. 

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Glad you managed to get your wife off the island. To be honest it's not been too bad here really. I've been fairly impressed with McLaughlin's leadership (for probably the first time sine moving here) - and he seemed embarrassed and exasperated at the number of "essential" applications the other day. Have to say I am glad I don't have a pet right now. 

Having dealt with CI Gov for 20+ years I'm surprised they even had an email inbox for the curfew exemptions.

Stay safe and good luck. Not expecting the airport to open anytime soon.

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5 hours ago, Stortz said:

Well that's because it hasn't gone down, they've just changed the way they report them:

image.png.3090d565712e46c75c9f22c9bb549257.png

Yes, I'm sure that you know more than every scientist and emergency planner in the world eh.

Give me strength.

Before you castigate me a week ago the so called experts were talking deaths in the hundreds of thousands (in this country) after at least three weeks into this outbreak we are at less than 500, do you still honestly believe that many are going to die? scientists and so called experts have been wrong too many times to count in the past why should we believe them now? the evidence I see tells me that was a massive over reaction, and as I said to another poster judge me in three weeks I will apologise if I'm wrong will you?

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2 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

To$$er. He should have been arrested years ago for having a name like Cody Pfister.

I suspect he's going to find out what pfisting is in the near future

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5 hours ago, BanburyRed said:

Not sure what you don't agree with?  That Hospital Nightingale is the new name for ExCel Centre?  Or that it's going to have 4000 beds across 2 wards? Or that it's going to contain a morgue?  Or that maybe we haven't seen anywhere near the number of fatalities from this virus (in your opinion)...?  I suggest if you know more than the doctors, nurses and scientists involved in this, you immediately head up the NHS task force.

An over reaction wait an see before you judge me.

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51 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I have to say, until scientists have been able to do more analysis, we don't know who or what caused the virus. We may never know. The causes of many great pandemics, including "Spanish flu", are just conjecture.

The dominant theory is that it began in Wuhan in November/December and may have some connection to the city's "wet market" and either bats or pangolins.

But there are problems with this: the form of bat coronavirus found in the kind of bats eaten in central China is only 96% a DNA match with Covid-19. That isn't normally close enough for a mutated virus to "jump species". As for pangolins, it's the scales that are ground up and used in (already banned) traditional medicine. These would be very unlikely to carry the virus, and pangolins only have a 90.3%match with the genetic material carried by Covid-19. Unlikely that they are either its direct source or even the "bridge" to forest bats. They are critically endangered for one thing.

Also, multiple reports suggest that neither bats or pangolins were sold in the wet market in Wuhan. Bat-eating being much more of a rural thing; something that is dying out in modern China.

You don't need to blame the peculiar eating habits of some Chinese for these zoonotic diseases. They are much more likely to come from everyday farm animals that everyone eats: chickens (SARS/MERS); pigs (Swine Fever), etc.

Moreover, research on many virus outbreaks has suggested they may have circulated for decades at a low-level before a mutation made them more dangerous and a "super-spreader" burst them into an epidemic. Although AIDS was first identified in New York in 1981, evidence now shows it was present in the Congo basin area in the 1930s and had reached the US by the 1960s. Deaths from it were chalked up to different causes.

So I personally wouldn't "blame China" for a virus mutation over which they would've had no control, and which may not even have originated there.

If there's blame to be attributed, we need to await the "inquest" on all this: and that may be years away.

Interesting Robbo. I've read a few papers speculating that the original bat virus was passed on to humans after a  period in pangolins, but as you say we may never know. And although they are endangered, hundreds of thousands of pangolins are traded in China per year.

With regards to SARS and MERS, I thought it was commonly accepted that the former came via civet cats and the latter dromedary camels, not chickens? Is that not right?

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5 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

It may look encouraging and I'll take any positive from this situation.

But the reality is that it is more than likely to go up from here for quite a while if you take into account what the experts are saying. If we have anywhere around 20k fatalities then, in their eyes, that would be a huge relief. Italy and Spain are on their way to those sort of figures and they are a bit in front of us in terms of time. I'm not sure that figures coming out of China are accurate tbh.

The experts seem to think that if this lock down works, and the analysis from the retrospective testing is positive, then the NHS will cope. But, for me, the Chancellors resolution for the self employed will also have a bearing on that. Get it right and the lock down is strengthened, get it wrong and, without legislation to stop hundreds of thousands of people going out to earn money, it could go horribly wrong.

 

20,000 casualties, it will be less than half that unless there is a massive downturn ( by that I mean a lot more cases) I think we have seen if not the worse of it at least the beginning of the end, it may be a bit bad for a week or two more but I'm not of the were doomed brigade which puts me in a minority of one on here so it seems. I'm talking overall deaths not contagion because the number of deaths per contagion is not accurate there are a lot more people who have got it than reported which means the percentage of deaths per contagion is a lot lower than published.

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4 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Can you imagine if he's stuck in the state pen, when he walks in and his fellow inmates ask him his name, and he says Pfister!

More likely, it will be pointed out that there is a rumour that he likes licking things and he will be invited to demonstrate

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5 minutes ago, pillred said:

Before you castigate me a week ago the so called experts were talking deaths in the hundreds of thousands (in this country) after at least three weeks into this outbreak we are at less than 500, do you still honestly believe that many are going to die? scientists and so called experts have been wrong too many times to count in the past why should we believe them now? the evidence I see tells me that was a massive over reaction, and as I said to another poster judge me in three weeks I will apologise if I'm wrong will you?

I would be delighted to apologise if I'm wrong, and I'd certainly be in the exalted company of every epidemiologist,  scientist, doctor and emergency planner on the planet.

Incredible that somebody with such unique knowledge as you should be on otib. What are your medical or scientific qualifications? A Nobel prize at least, I'm presuming?

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5 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Interesting Robbo. I've read a few papers speculating that the original bat virus was passed on to humans after a  period in pangolins, but as you say we may never know. And although they are endangered, hundreds of thousands of pangolins are traded in China per year.

With regards to SARS and MERS, I thought it was commonly accepted that the former came via civet cats and the latter dromedary camels, not chickens? Is that not right?

I think the civets were the bridge animal to chickens. I may be wrong.

Like the current virus, i'm not sure definitive conclusions have been reached. Incidentally, the current coronavirus is a form of SARS, so you do wonder.

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