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Loderingo

The Coronavirus and how it impacts on sport

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1 hour ago, pillred said:

If you believe the government (I know I know) they say they have increased spending on the NHS above the rate of inflation for the past ten years. If that's the case where the hell has all the money gone? and why are they always saying they need more? I would be genuinely interested to hear from someone that knows about these things.

I think the core problem PR is that demand has been rising even faster than spending because of our ageing population. There are subsidiary problems caused by cuts in social care - frail elderly patients "bed blocking" because there is no care package in place to look after them in their own homes. It's one of the things De Pfeffel promised to fix in his election manifesto, yet a huge budget was unveiled recently with zero proposals on the issue.

45 minutes ago, downendcity said:

My wife is secretary to a consultant surgeon in his private practice.

He says that the private hospital in which he does his private work is gearing up to be utilised in dealing with coronavirus. They are cancelling elective surgery at the local NHS hospital and he expects that surgery at the private hospital will stop shortly, because anaesthetists will be needed in treating CV patients. The consultant is an orthopaedic surgeon but is getting training in using ventilators.

 

That is cheering news indeed, DC. Thanks for sharing.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Words fail me...I'm assuming she hasn't exactly grasped the seriousness of this situation.

She's blaming it on being under stress as she was in Spain trying to get her brother home, as he suffers from dementia.

In such circumstances, the best thing to do would be to stay off twitter.

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15 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

You certainly aren’t letting the facts get in the way. You have made the weird and arrogant decision that you understand businesses’ insurance policies better than those businesses themselves. 

A lot of small theatres and music venues are small independent businesses - in many cases essentially doubling up as  a town’s local pub. From what people do involved with them tell me, their insurance would be affected. Not just large events like Glastonbury.

These people know their businesses. You very evidently do not know their businesses. I am really not clear why posters who have never seen their insurance policies feel they know best here but I can promise you don’t.

Hardly a fringe point either.

 

If you don’t know pubs, bars and venues’ insurance policies, maybe admit that rather than pretending you do for political convenience? 
 

So let’s not let the facts get in the way indeed.

I will admit it’s 30 years since I left the insurance industry, but this article backs up my point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51927691

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Great post. 👍🏻
 

edit: so far in two speeches he’s been reactive, 1) initially on Thursday 2) yesterday was a change of message, one positive is he appears to be reactive to the mood post-speech.

What will be get today.  Another change of message in reaction to being woolly yesterday, e.g. a message of financial support available, not just a suggestion?

At some point, hopefully today, he needs to get on the front foot and lay out what is going to happen, not use each press conference as a chance to rectify the poor message of the previous day.

 

Just my meandering thoughts on this FWIW - not aimed directly at you Mr. Fevs, just that it was the last post I looked at.

I think this crisis is moving incredibly fast and its likely we'll always be a day behind playing catch up as things develop. 

But yes, its obvious that SMEs, pubs etc, and people with debts to pay but no means of doing so through no fault of their own will need huge support. The measures put in place (but yet to materialise and they need to get them in place very soon) are very welcome but, as I said, its moving at a pace and its changing daily but its obvious that more needs to be put in place and I would hope that more on that will come today. The banks were bailed out earlier this century and its now time for payback. But I wouldn't have expected everything to be in place from day one and those that do think that are being naive imo. It'll never be enough for some though.

Seems like the public are being sensible in the main by not socialising in pubs etc (or at least cutting it down), and reducing journeys on public transport (buses in Bristol about to announce cut down services as London has done). Businesses also, in the main, appear to be acting responsibly and following the Government guidelines. Much better that we aren't under some sort of martial law and still have some freedoms and normal life whilst trying to keep this virus under control. 

The self isolation issue seems to have be clarified but they are still people who are under the impression its some sort of house arrest. That needs further clarification. 80 year old on the radio yesterday was up in arms about staying indoors for 3 months and wouldn't listen to reason - its ageist apparently. Another aspect of this is care homes stopping relatives visiting - a bit of common sense and compassion is required. One lady on the radio said she can't see her husband who has dementia so she asked if she could go to his window so he could at least see her. Heart rending stuff which isn't necessary if the correct risk assessments are in place. 

It would help if people and elements of the media were a bit more circumspect and stop the scare mongering, banging on about millions being homeless in the future, 500,000 deaths etc etc . Stuff like that really doesn't help - and neither does people trying to score petty political points which is pathetic.

I'll get me coat.

 

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48 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Can our ******* Government actually make a ******* decision.  Advice does not help, our employers need support and be told to send those at risk, or those that live with those at risk home.
I could easily do my job from home.

**** Boris is not going to be remembered fondly.

Theresa May ‘I was crap’, Boris ‘Hold my Beer’.

Not that I think Jeremy Corbyn would have done any better.  We have such low grade politicians at the moment.

Well I thought the ‘advice’ was quite clear yesterday. 
If you have the ability to work from home then you should. That was made quite clear. 
As for those “at risk”, it’s also quite clear that those who are in at risk categories should stay away from work or any kind of social gathering. 

Whilst this is just ‘advice’ at this stage, I think you are incorrect to say that it’s not been made clear. It’s really quite, quite clear that if you have the ability to work from home (which you have said you can easily do) then you should. I don’t know what is in any way ambiguous about that? 
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

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Just while we are at the biggest crisis since WW2 we are lumbered with the most incapable PM imaginable who has no concept of what life is like for the ordinary man/woman on the street. 

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Surprising news which shows what we all know but confirms that it transcends politics.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/03/the-economy-and-the-virus-tear-up-the-rulebook-we-need-big-state-government-on-a-scale-unknown-in-modern-times.html

Penny appears to be dropping- not quite dropped but it's rolling- it's teetering...

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23 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I will admit it’s 30 years since I left the insurance industry, but this article backs up my point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51927691

Fair enough - sorry for grumpily dragging you and @PHILINFRANCE into an argument with another poster. I obviously only know what the bars and venues I know have told me they believe to be true. I obviously haven't read the actual insurance docs themselves so cannot be certain who is right. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surprising news which shows what we all know but confirms that it transcends politics.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/03/the-economy-and-the-virus-tear-up-the-rulebook-we-need-big-state-government-on-a-scale-unknown-in-modern-times.html

Penny appears to be dropping- not quite dropped but it's rolling- it's teetering...

Bit like the jackpot counter on tipping point 😐

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11 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Just my meandering thoughts on this FWIW - not aimed directly at you Mr. Fevs, just that it was the last post I looked at.

I think this crisis is moving incredibly fast and its likely we'll always be a day behind playing catch up as things develop. 

But yes, its obvious that SMEs, pubs etc, and people with debts to pay but no means of doing so through no fault of their own will need huge support. The measures put in place (but yet to materialise and they need to get them in place very soon) are very welcome but, as I said, its moving at a pace and its changing daily but its obvious that more needs to be put in place and I would hope that more on that will come today. The banks were bailed out earlier this century and its now time for payback. But I wouldn't have expected everything to be in place from day one and those that do think that are being naive imo. It'll never be enough for some though.

Seems like the public are being sensible in the main by not socialising in pubs etc (or at least cutting it down), and reducing journeys on public transport (buses in Bristol about to announce cut down services as London has done). Businesses also, in the main, appear to be acting responsibly and following the Government guidelines. Much better that we aren't under some sort of martial law and still have some freedoms and normal life whilst trying to keep this virus under control. 

The self isolation issue seems to have be clarified but they are still people who are under the impression its some sort of house arrest. That needs further clarification. 80 year old on the radio yesterday was up in arms about staying indoors for 3 months and wouldn't listen to reason - its ageist apparently. Another aspect of this is care homes stopping relatives visiting - a bit of common sense and compassion is required. One lady on the radio said she can't see her husband who has dementia so she asked if she could go to his window so he could at least see her. Heart rending stuff which isn't necessary if the correct risk assessments are in place. 

It would help if people and elements of the media were a bit more circumspect and stop the scare mongering, banging on about millions being homeless in the future, 500,000 deaths etc etc . Stuff like that really doesn't help - and neither does people trying to score petty political points which is pathetic.

I'll get me coat.

 

The government has had since November to plan for this. They’ve self manufactured a crisis in the NHS that has been at breaking point for years cancelling routine operations every winter. Frankly they’ve been asleep at the wheel since Johnson and Gove caused Brexit. 

 

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2 hours ago, wood_red said:

I am sort of hoping that some of the bids on some items are just not real per se, and certain accounts are bidding stupidly on purpose to pee off the seller, so they just won't pay at the end of the auction.

To try and get people to pay just isn't worth the hassle, even though it is so say "a binding contract". The scummy seller then has to start over again.

 

I hope so to - that item I alluded to just ended - check the price

 
 
 
12 X Hand Gel Sanitiser Carex 50ml Aloe Vera 70% Ethanol Bacterial Alcohol Rub
Condition:
New
Ended:
17 Mar, 2020, 12:51:31 GMT
Price:
£1,020.00

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

My wife is secretary to a consultant surgeon in his private practice.

He says that the private hospital in which he does his private work is gearing up to be utilised in dealing with coronavirus. They are cancelling elective surgery at the local NHS hospital and he expects that surgery at the private hospital will stop shortly, because anaesthetists will be needed in treating CV patients. The consultant is an orthopaedic surgeon but is getting training in using ventilators.

 

One of our private hospital customers in London, and we're talking REALLY posh, has turned some of their wards over to the NHS due to coronavirus. Whether they'e charging for this I don't know but would hope they're not.

Edited by Ska Junkie

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bit more eloquent than what I just posted on twitter with effs and jeffs 😂

It's going to backfire on the insurance companies if there are no bailouts. All those policies that wont be renewed when companies go out of business. And policies cancelled if they survive.

That said companies really should do more homework on what they are signing up to.. but seem to be far to busy to buy correct protection or do not read what they are signing up to.

A lot of lessons to be learned through heartbreak I think :(

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10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Fair enough - sorry for grumpily dragging you and @PHILINFRANCE into an argument with another poster. I obviously only know what the bars and venues I know have told me they believe to be true. I obviously haven't read the actual insurance docs themselves so cannot be certain who is right. 

We may well have been "arguing" but ffs, the tone of your "I am right and you 3 are clueless blundering in on subjects you all know nothing about" was ridiculous imo. I put my point across and told you why I made that point (due to owners of pubs I knew, along with an Insurance company owner) with what I was told. @Maesknoll Red  and @PHILINFRANCE were basically saying the same thing that they wouldn't be covered so you never dragged them into an argument.

That still wasn't good enough and, yet even now when it seems to be a fact that "MOST" wouldn't be covered with a forced closure, you still cannot be certain who is right? Bizarre.

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Just seen BJs latest ‘advice’ that people shouldn’t travel unless ‘absolutely necessary’

I can see all the families cancelling their £5k holidays now, at their own expense ...... NOT. 

He needs to make it LAW or people will stay travelling - and I can understand why when it’s one of the most expensive and anticipated purchases a family has every year. 

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Does seem a bit optimistic

At a videoconference meeting held on Tuesday, directors decided that the Champions League final should be held on June 27 and the Europa League final on June 24.

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I am fed up of Boris saying we are two weeks behind alot of Europe so drastic measures aren't needed just yet.......no you fool, we are two weeks AHEAD of Europe in that we have more time to try and contain it. Give it a week or two, the amount of people infected and dying will continue to shoot up, and then action will be taken.

Edited by BCFC Grim
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8 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Just seen BJs latest ‘advice’ that people shouldn’t travel unless ‘absolutely necessary’

I can see all the families cancelling their £5k holidays now, at their own expense ...... NOT. 

He needs to make it LAW or people will stay travelling - and I can understand why when it’s one of the most expensive and anticipated purchases a family has every year. 

If they can tbh. How many holidays are still viable, air traffic has dropped right off.

Even then if you get through that you may face travel bans to various countries, or quarantine when you arrive- see Vietnam.

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Mods can we ditch all the political stuff to the other thread and just keep it to football related?

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24 minutes ago, Super said:

Mods can we ditch all the political stuff to the other thread and just keep it to football related?

Er - there isn’t any football happening at the moment - or for the foreseeable future. Might as well shut the entire forum 😜

Edited by bcfcredandwhite
Comedy typo
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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Well I thought the ‘advice’ was quite clear yesterday. 
If you have the ability to work from home then you should. That was made quite clear. 
As for those “at risk”, it’s also quite clear that those who are in at risk categories should stay away from work or any kind of social gathering. 

Whilst this is just ‘advice’ at this stage, I think you are incorrect to say that it’s not been made clear. It’s really quite, quite clear that if you have the ability to work from home (which you have said you can easily do) then you should. I don’t know what is in any way ambiguous about that? 
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Well can someone tell my employers please?  

You know, those people that pay me.  
 

That’s the difference between ‘advice’ and ‘an order’

Edited by RumRed
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2 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Er - there isn’t any football happening at the moment - or for the foreseeable future. Might as well shit the entire forum 😜

Just keep it for how it's affecting football. The politics point scoring should be on another thread.

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10 minutes ago, Super said:

Mods can we ditch all the political stuff to the other thread and just keep it to football related?

This left the football arena pages back. Let it go I reckon. F all else to talk about!

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3 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Well can someone tell my employers please?  

You know, those people that pay me.  

Yes, indeed- I was in yesterday and Friday, despite misgivings.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If they can tbh. How many holidays are still viable, air traffic has dropped right off.

Even then if you get through that you may face travel bans to various countries, or quarantine when you arrive- see Vietnam.

Just listened to that travel guru on radio (can remember his name now) and he is now stuck in Yemen "potentially for months".

Best of luck to anyone who goes forward with their holidays (if they can get a flight) as it'll be the longest holiday they've had.

*Simon Calder

Edited by bcfc01

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Here's a football related story!

The top 6 in the Championship, apparently are looking at legal action against the Football League, the Premier League or perhaps both, if promotion denied/season cancelled.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/leeds-united-promotion-coronavirus-voided-17935890

@bcfc01 Yemen's a warzone or has been, god knows what he's playing at- unless reporting from there?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think the core problem PR is that demand has been rising even faster than spending because of our ageing population. There are subsidiary problems caused by cuts in social care - frail elderly patients "bed blocking" because there is no care package in place to look after them in their own homes. It's one of the things De Pfeffel promised to fix in his election manifesto, yet a huge budget was unveiled recently with zero proposals on the issue.

That is cheering news indeed, DC. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the explanation, it can be a bit difficult getting to the truth where the NHS is concerned.

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16 minutes ago, Super said:

Mods can we ditch all the political stuff to the other thread and just keep it to football related?

Do you not realise that there is no football to talk about instead of crying to mods? 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here's a football related story!

The top 6 in the Championship, apparently are looking at legal action against the Football League, the Premier League or perhaps both, if promotion denied/season cancelled.

@bcfc01 Yemen's a warzone, god knows what he's playing at- unless reporting from there?

Heard that last night but that it was just toward the Prem only if they we’re to declare the season null and void.  Got to be bull at this stage I’d imagine but no doubt whatever happens it’ll get messy! 

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3 hours ago, pillred said:

If you believe the government (I know I know) they say they have increased spending on the NHS above the rate of inflation for the past ten years. If that's the case where the hell has all the money gone? and why are they always saying they need more? I would be genuinely interested to hear from someone that knows about these things.

I'm not for a minute claiming to be an expert on this, but as I understand it health spending in the U.K. has increased over the past decade, as it has over the past 70 years , whether you measure that before or after inflation. There have been a few short periods, 2010/11 ish being the last, where that didn't happen, but overall upwards. However, it's gone up by less in the past decade than it had before that.

The problem is that tells only a small % of the story.

Over the same time we've grown older, we live longer, we get more illnesses in old age etc etc. When the welfare state was introduced after the war I believe that the average person lived for three years after their state pension age. That's an issue for pensions, but it's also a hell of a lot of hip replacements not to mention longer term illness.

In addition, we've got far far better at treating people, but at a cost. I know a little about cystic fibrosis, for example. 20 years ago if you had CF you'd probably die by the age of 20, and you'd have few drug options beyond anti-biotics. Nowadays, you might live twice that long (with all the hospitalisation that involves) and there are specialist drugs now coming on the market. One, Orkambi, was the subject of a recent campaign to get approval for its use by the NHS, and there are second and third generations now being trialled. They cost literally hundreds of thousands of pounds per patient each year. 

So, just keeping up with inflation, or even a little above it, is way way short of what's needed.

Lastly, it depends what you spend on, as well. The government recently announced capital funding for new hospitals. That's all well and good, but if you keep revenue funding (day to day spending) at its current levels, as we are, then you won't have any nurses or doctors to work there.

The US as a whole spends more on healthcare per capita than just about anywhere else, but has some of the worse outcomes because their system is completely disfunctional.

We spent, in 2017 (latest data apparently) just under £3000 per person, which is around the OECD average, but less than the old EU15 average. 

Edited by italian dave

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7 minutes ago, lenred said:

Heard that last night but that it was just toward the Prem only if they we’re to declare the season null and void.  Got to be bull at this stage I’d imagine but no doubt whatever happens it’ll get messy! 

It will 100% get messy, unless football can somehow have the right number of games under whatever circs.

At this stage, but they've had a meeting...doubtless it's one of options that was discussed, or a contingency of some kind.

There will be a host of clubs at least looking at the legal options- just in case.

Then there are broadcasters- not even considered sponsors, etc etc.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here's a football related story!

The top 6 in the Championship, apparently are looking at legal action against the Football League, the Premier League or perhaps both, if promotion denied/season cancelled.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/

@bcfc01 Yemen's a warzone or has been, god knows what he's playing at- unless reporting from there?

Not sure if this link works;

https://twitter.com/simoncalder?lang=en

But he is definitely in Yemen.

 

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With news of the Euros being postponed by a year, and all the talk this morning of how long this will last, I can't help thinking that this season re-start again next March, and we'll just not have a 20-21 season

Bit annoying, as I've just bought my season ticket!

 

Edited by italian dave
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3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I'm not for a minute claiming to be an expert on this, but as I understand it health spending in the U.K. has increases over the past decade, as it has over the past 70 years , whether you measure that before or after inflation. There have been a few short periods, 2010/11 ish being the last, where that didn't happen, but overall upwards. However, it's gone up be less in the past decade than it had before that.

The problem is that tells only a small % of the story.

Over the same time we've grown older, we live longer, we get more illnesses in old age etc etc. When the welfare state was introduced after the war I believe that the average person lived for three years after their state pension age. That's an issue for pensions, but it's also a hell of a lot of hip replacements not to mention longer term illness.

In addition, we've got far far better at treating people, but at a cost. I know a little about cystic fibrosis, for example. 20 years ago if you had CF you'd probably die by the age of 20, and you'd have few drug options beyond anti-biotics. Nowadays, you might live twice that long (with all the hospitalisation that involves) and there are specialist drugs now coming on the market. One, Orkambi, was the subject of a recent campaign to get approval for its use by the NHS, and there are second and third generations now being trialled. They cost literally hundreds of thousands of pounds per patient each year. 

So, just keeping up with inflation, or even a little above it, is way way short of what's needed.

Lastly, it depends what you spend on, as well. The government recently announced capital funding for new hospitals. That's all well and good, but if you keep revenue funding (day to day spending) at its current levels, as we are, then you won't have any nurses or doctors to work there.

The US as a whole spends more on healthcare per capita than just about anywhere else, but has some of the worse outcomes because their system is completely disfunctional.

We spent, in 2017 (latest data apparently) just under £3000 per person, which is around the OECD average, but less than the old EU15 average. 

Have run out of likes but thankyou for taking the time to answer my question, put like that it's easy to see how we have got to this.

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17 minutes ago, Super said:

Just keep it for how it's affecting football. The politics point scoring should be on another thread.

It’s affecting football because it’s stopped it. 
I can’t see any football matches taking place until 2021 to be honest. Apparently this virus can be caught again, so as long as there is someone on the planet with it, it will just cycle around and around until the boffins find a cure. 

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13 minutes ago, Galway Red said:

Do you not realise that there is no football to talk about instead of crying to mods? 

Er how it is actually affecting football? Which is what the title says. Try reading it next time.

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4 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s affecting football because it’s stopped it. 
I can’t see any football matches taking place until 2021 to be honest. Apparently this virus can be caught again, so as long as there is someone on the planet with it, it will just cycle around and around until the boffins find a cure. 

First time I've seen that other than the false report about a lady in China (?).

Where did you see this - be interested to read about it.

 

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6 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s affecting football because it’s stopped it. 
I can’t see any football matches taking place until 2021 to be honest. Apparently this virus can be caught again, so as long as there is someone on the planet with it, it will just cycle around and around until the boffins find a cure. 

Heard a so called expert yesterday on Breakfast news and when it was put to him about re infection said it would only be in exceptional cases as the bodies immune system in the vast majority of people would not let that happen.

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