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Loderingo

The Coronavirus and how it impacts on sport

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24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Gonna be interesting how this one plays out in detail.

Thanks for sharing.

Certainly will. Plenty of self employed don't put all their earnings through the books and will now only receive 80% of what they have? 

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I recommend everyone to watch Trump’s press conference just then. Like nothing I’ve ever seen before.  USA first day over 100 deaths. Trump talking about virus in past tense. Says normal flu kills more people.  Says economy is back. Moving on. More people will commit suicide if economy is bad than will die from covid. USA wasn’t built to be shut down apparently. 

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5 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Certainly will. Plenty of self employed don't put all their earnings through the books and will now only receive 80% of what they have? 

Or circa £3000, whichever is lower 

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9 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Certainly will. Plenty of self employed don't put all their earnings through the books and will now only receive 80% of what they have? 

And so they should.

If anyone doesn't declare all of their earnings to HMRC then they'll lose out, but they gained by not paying their taxes correctly in the first place. 

No sympathy here I'm afraid. 

 

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9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Or circa £3000, whichever is lower 

What time period is the 80% or circa £3000 over? 

Edited by freezer

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1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Atalanta vs Valencia probably didn't help either....

https://www.football-italia.net/151489/atalanta-valencia-worsened-coronavirus

Was behind closed doors, the 2nd leg but can't have helped!

At the very least, I recall about 30% of the Valencia squad got it.

OTOH, just read the article and it may have exacerbated the spread more widely- indeed within a week of that first game, Milan had reopened bars etc to normal hours. :doh:

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, freezer said:

And so they should.

If anyone doesn't declare all of their earnings to HMRC then they'll lose out, but they gained by not paying their taxes correctly in the first place. 

No sympathy here I'm afraid. 

 

Agreed. Can’t believe many will have sympathy. 

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Averaged over 3 years

Sorry, I meant the payment. Monthly, weekly, how is it paid? 

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28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Gonna be interesting how this one plays out in detail.

Thanks for sharing.

Indeed.

The devil will be in the detail and in the administration of it. 

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no faith that any of the schemes being put in place will be easy to obtain.

Apparently the "business loans" which were launched with a fanfare last week aren't necessarily business loans as banks are asking for personal guarantees - may as well be a personal loan secured on your own home. Not that I qualify for that anyway but it is a signal for how things are.

I'm waiting to see the detail for the business rate relief grants for which I qualify - I'm not holding my breath that they will be grants and, even if they are, I'm certain the bureaucracy will be arduous as local government have been tasked with administering it and they couldn't organise a straightforward piss up in a brewery. 

The self employed/soul trader/freelancer payments should be straightforward as the HMRC have all the returns - but I bet they will take a closer interest in peoples accounts if they apply for these payments. I don't care about that, all above board, but I'm absolutely positive that it will be a drawn out hassle and could lead to people being investigated later on.

Sorry for being negative, and I think the Government have pitched things just right so far, but my experience of past dealings with government agencies leads me to think it will be a huge cock up.

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Sorry not sure.  Guess all will be revealed tomorrow 

Thanks. I'm self-employed. If the payments work I'll stay at home to protect myself and potentially others and tighten the purse strings. 

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7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Sorry not sure.  Guess all will be revealed tomorrow 

I think it's monthly that the figures are referring to. 

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I can only speak of my own experience in France, but I believe the 'lockdown' is working quite well over here.

The lockdown rules are broadly similar (although outlets such as Sports Direct are not considered essential, so have been forced to close!).

Two comments, though:

Firstly, should one wish to leave the house one must fill in and sign a form (on a daily basis) and, after a few days' lenience, the Police have now become much more strict in ensuring people adhere both to the law and to the spirit of the law - they became exasperated by people going shopping several times a day for a few bottles of beer. The lockdown has undoubtedly had some effect on drug dealing, with the effect that some towns have been obliged to enforce curfews and, of course, this has brought about its own tension.

Secondly, there is a fixed system of fines (€135 for a first offence, but rising to €3,750 and even 6 months imprisonment for repeat offenders), which is enforced because, of course, people are obliged to carry official ID papers in France. Good Luck with enforcing your lockdown in the UK - I envisage loads of warnings and requests to disperse, but no real change for weeks.

One further difference, although I am sure there are many, is that our supermarkets are full: due to the lockdown, population movement has obviously decreased, but whenever I have gone shopping since our lockdown commenced, people have waited patiently in the queues to enter the supermarkets (5 minutes max, and 'policed' by polite security guards), so there has been no 'need' to storm through past nurses and OAPs as people know they will find all they want inside - and this includes fresh fish, meat, fruit and vegetables, all delivered daily! 

Be aware, though; be aware and, if not afraid, be very respectful of this virus.

I hope I am wrong, but should people not self-distance you are all going to see some horrific figures.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was behind closed doors, the 2nd leg but can't have helped!

At the very least, I recall about 30% of the Valencia squad got it.

OTOH, just read the article and it may have exacerbated the spread more widely- indeed within a week of that first game, Milan had reopened bars etc to normal hours. :doh:

The second leg was behind closed doors, but the first leg, in Milan, attracted some 40,000 Atalanta supporters, who, of course, hail from Bergamo!

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Well tonights announcement was inevitable. It was always going to happen. And whilst I agree that this is necessary, it should not be something to be celebrated or cheered. Today is a dark day for personal freedoms and liberty, regardless if it is essential and needed.

I would like to say that people like Piers Morgan has absolutely not helped in the last couple of weeks. I am sure he feels like he is vindicated now, but tonights decision was always going to happen. All he has done is help to create unnecessary panic, and potentially helped create situations like panic buying at supermarkets. I agree about scrutinising the government but the way he went about it was completely wrong. 

Also, after this does subside. The world need to look at China. It is not racist to acknowledge this started in China. And its not the first time. Repercussions need to happen. We cant have a situation where a state is allowing these so called wet markets to exist. Or to have a government like China's that try to suppress the outbreak for as long as it did. As we are seeing now, it is killing innocent people across the world. 

 

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I recommend everyone to watch Trump’s press conference just then. Like nothing I’ve ever seen before.  USA first day over 100 deaths. Trump talking about virus in past tense. Says normal flu kills more people.  Says economy is back. Moving on. More people will commit suicide if economy is bad than will die from covid. USA wasn’t built to be shut down apparently. 

He is right about a few of those remarks. Just not PC is it. What a shame.

9 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

https://www.heathrow.com/arrivals

I can understand flying back Britons from wherever - but all these flights can't be that can they ?

 

8 hours ago, freezer said:

Why oh why are flights from China, Italy and Iran still allowed to land in this country. 

Absolute madness! 

There are at least 10 million Britons living abroad. Might take a while to fly back that many don't you think?

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Evening... Just looking for some advice and anyone in the know. I currently have shared custody of my 2 children but as of today are with their mum. Anyone know where I would stand with collecting them and spending time with them? Me and their mum both live on our own so the kids would only come into contact with us but I’m not sure what the rules are?? Any advice would be appreciated.

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The only thing that annoys me with what Johnson has said, is that we should only shop when we need to and infrequently. Use food delivery when we can. Well we already know that delivery is out of the question in many areas. And to suggest to shop so infrequently is literally going to encourage more panic bulk buying, which means a huge influx of a mass of people at supermarkets that will try to bulk buy. This needed to be worded/explained better, or have a better understanding and co-ordination with supermarkets. 

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So for people that want to be sensible and not selfish. That are worried about being in close proximity with a huge amount of people. This will mean visiting more quieter/local stores, but much much more frequently. 

Edited by Atticus

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15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What you are overlooking here is that zero hours or certain jobs, don't work and don't get paid. 

Plus a proportion of these will be supermarket- necessary, limited number of teachers- necessary, key workers- necessary. 

These are people who cannot, literally cannot take time off work, or work from home for varying reasons..what, exactly, do you suggest?

There is also a saying that society is 9 meals from anarchy. Now I don't know how true that is, but things can start to breakdown- rapidly at that- if people cannot feed themselves let alone their children.

Clearly as many people as possible need to stay at home but short term, how feasible? 

Lastly, Daily Mail said 28 tube stations were shut. That can present a misleading picture.

I agree things need shutting down BUT you're taking a part of the situation in isolation here. More nuanced.

TfL said it was 40, including DLR and overground, and these were mostly stations with no connections to other lines, all interconnecting stations were open. The services were drastically reduced to a train every 15 minutes, where in rush hour they’re approximately usually every two. You’re going to have large amounts of people travelling at the same time, there are hospitals, supermarkets, pharmacies and other vital industries all over London. If the tube is shutdown, they’d have to have special buses but even then they pose a risk too

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3 hours ago, walsh left foot said:

Evening... Just looking for some advice and anyone in the know. I currently have shared custody of my 2 children but as of today are with their mum. Anyone know where I would stand with collecting them and spending time with them? Me and their mum both live on our own so the kids would only come into contact with us but I’m not sure what the rules are?? Any advice would be appreciated.

This one is also causing problems in Spain and last i heard the govt are reviewing it. Sorry....doesnt help you at all but at least you know you arent the only one in this situation. I'd imagine it was simply overlooked and will be added to the "essential" list soon. Good luck fella!

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3 hours ago, walsh left foot said:

Evening... Just looking for some advice and anyone in the know. I currently have shared custody of my 2 children but as of today are with their mum. Anyone know where I would stand with collecting them and spending time with them? Me and their mum both live on our own so the kids would only come into contact with us but I’m not sure what the rules are?? Any advice would be appreciated.

That is a tough one. Would you not all maintain that you are effectively one 'household' and therefore movement between the two homes is a natural thing for all of you? Think of it literally then as one home but different parts of it. This is a humanitarian family issue and I would think if outlined in this way the powers that be would fully accept and support that the welfare of children is paramount. 

Let's not forget, this is not the bubonic plague.

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3 hours ago, walsh left foot said:

Evening... Just looking for some advice and anyone in the know. I currently have shared custody of my 2 children but as of today are with their mum. Anyone know where I would stand with collecting them and spending time with them? Me and their mum both live on our own so the kids would only come into contact with us but I’m not sure what the rules are?? Any advice would be appreciated.

According to BBC website, moving children under 18 between parents homes is included in the allowed measures.

Coronavirus: UK wakes to strict new curbs on life https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52014472

Edited by Stedge

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4 hours ago, walsh left foot said:

Evening... Just looking for some advice and anyone in the know. I currently have shared custody of my 2 children but as of today are with their mum. Anyone know where I would stand with collecting them and spending time with them? Me and their mum both live on our own so the kids would only come into contact with us but I’m not sure what the rules are?? Any advice would be appreciated.

You can drop children to each other’s house. That’s allowed in the guidelines.

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Michael Gove just advised that construction work will continue on sites but not in private property where people are living in. He was challenged on whether site working was compulsory and mass gathering ....... he didn’t answer the question 

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7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You can drop children to each other’s house. That’s allowed in the guidelines.

Michael Gove just said cant move children between parents, it isn’t in the guidelines!

Edited by daored

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

 

44ABCEBD-07ED-49B6-B8C7-6F6D6F119959.png

He was challenged on the guidance and advised its not on there!! It’s extremely unclear what is and what isn’t allowed on many fronts 

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3 minutes ago, daored said:

He was challenged on the guidance and advised its not on there!! It’s extremely unclear what is and what isn’t allowed on many fronts 

Crazy isn’t it.  More likely he is wrong I guess as lots saying it’s on there and there is Official looking text to back that up. 

I don’t think the guidelines are strong enough and police have no powers it seems. 

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7 minutes ago, daored said:

He was challenged on the guidance and advised its not on there!! It’s extremely unclear what is and what isn’t allowed on many fronts 

Very unclear. Will be a total lockdown by Friday 

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4 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Very unclear. Will be a total lockdown by Friday 

None of it is unclear if you actually read the government docs on the gov.uk website 

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4 hours ago, havanatopia said:

He is right about a few of those remarks. Just not PC is it. What a shame.

Ignoring the fact, that this has absolutely nothing to do with being PC or not, what do you think he is right on?

Recapping on what @And Its Smith said:

"Trump talking about virus in past tense. Says normal flu kills more people.  Says economy is back. Moving on. More people will commit suicide if economy is bad than will die from covid. USA wasn’t built to be shut down apparently. "

1) The virus is increasing in America (and indeed the world). It is not in the past tense.

2) It has killed more people over time because this is a new disease but the evidence so far suggests this is both more contagious and has a higher mortality rate over time. Normal flu has killed more people as it has had more time to do so. This is more deadly than flu.

3) Some analysts believe the US stock market might recover if a recovery package is announced and there are a few early signs of reasons for positivity after one of the biggest stock market crashes in history but the economy is in no way "back".

4) You can't really say the economy is moving on at this point.

5) It is likely an economic crash will cause suicides. It is far from clear how many people will die from COVID-19 at the moment but fivethirtyeight found the average consensus amongst epedemiologists was 200, 000 US deaths. It is hard to know how that will compare with the suicide rate.

6) The US is not an exception here. No country was built to be shut down but it not clear how the US could cope with an overwhelmed health service if they do not enact these measures.

So where do you actually think he is right?

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12 hours ago, pillred said:

It's advisory surely?

Surely it’s quite clear by now this ISNT advisory, its government orders. You play with your own health by all means but if someone at risk doesn’t care about catching it but then ends up in hospital is taking a bed from someone else. Why take the risk ffs

11 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

This isn’t a subject for Levity.

But Edwina Currie having no idea is very, very funny:

 

 

I’m fairly sure she knew it wasn’t real

11 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Excluding funerals...

That's handy

I’m grateful for this, still not sure I should be travelling across the country next Wednesday for a funeral, but I missed my last chance to see my Nan due to this virus, not sure I could miss the funeral.

9 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Trades are supposed to stop, unless it’s essential work, simple as.

During that time the government will cover 80% of wages for employers to help prevent redundancies.

That’s not what Michael Gove has just said, this isn’t clear from the government.

8 hours ago, QuedgeRed said:

As reported by The Sun online

88961674-7D8F-423C-AFA1-8F10ADC8CA36.thumb.jpeg.be3022013e5371ead7aad681e047b1e3.jpeg

Where are the Sun getting this? They’ve made this up as far as I can see.

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

6E21872D-997B-4349-88E1-4D2812F4C8A6.png

Promising news but can’t find that original tweet now, only one I found says a proposal.

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5 minutes ago, Super said:

Michael Gove just said the opposite!

I honestly mean no offence to Gove here but these are new and complex guidelines drawn in the last 24 hours. Not every minister will be fully briefed on them and remember every detail in an interview. Don't forget the Chancellor announced shops were closed in error last week in the announcement around the pubs.

I'd trust the official guidance on gov.uk websites over what ministers say in interviews as there will be points when they get confused. 

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7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Where are the Sun getting this? They’ve made this up as far as I can see.

Re the list from The Sun, taken from here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf 

See exceptions list on table. 

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9 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

image.thumb.jpeg.aea81e66656d12e255ebc35241526d26.jpeg
 

London this morning. Speechless 

People have to go to work, there’s many hospitals, police stations, pharmacies, vital industries in London. I don’t expect they’re doing it for a laugh. The frequency of trains has been reduced dramatically, there will be an increase of people on each train even though the actual numbers of people have fallen

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5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

People have to go to work, there’s many hospitals, police stations, pharmacies, vital industries in London. I don’t expect they’re doing it for a laugh. The frequency of trains has been reduced dramatically, there will be an increase of people on each train even though the actual numbers of people have fallen

Don’t think many are blaming the people themselves 

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4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Don’t think many are blaming the people themselves 

I don’t know how people are supposed to get around London unless they put special work buses on, a lot of people won’t have cars. 

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