Jump to content
IGNORED

The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


Loderingo

Recommended Posts

29 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Most Self employed people are due a lump sum. Those not working, are no worse off than last month and nobody needs to have been laid off. That’s what the Furlough status measures are for. 

Except for those unlucky ones laid off in the week or two before the measures announced...

In the queue for Universal Credit- saw on the news someone was 9,000 (!?) in the online queue. 475,000 applications for it in that week. 

I digress but ex employees of companies who made swift and brutual yet probably necessary decisions...bad luck.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Except for those our buggers laid off in the week or two before the measures announced...

In the queue for Universal Credit- saw on the news someone was 9,000 (!?) in the online queue. 475, 000 applications for it in that week. 

I digress but ex employees of companies who made swift and brutual yet probably necessary decisions...bad luck.

I think they've now said you can contact your ex-employer and get them to retrospectively put you on a furlough, so you can be paid.

It's good this happened. It's poor it wasn't thought of in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Except for those unlucky ones laid off in the week or two before the measures announced...

In the queue for Universal Credit- saw on the news someone was 9,000 (!?) in the online queue. 475,000 applications for it in that week. 

I digress but ex employees of companies who made swift and brutual yet probably necessary decisions...bad luck.

So should those who are now overworked processing Universal Credit claims get free football hospitality?

  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

So should those who are now overworked processing Universal Credit claims get free football hospitality?

Thought they'd shut job centres, surely people largely applying online. 

They're the last ******* I'd offer any perks to. Stuff about them online... 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thought they'd shut job centres, surely people largely applying online. 

They're the last ******* I'd offer any perks to.

So you wouldn't want to reward those packed in to some desperate call centre like battery hens, dealing with massively distressed members of the public who might be scared as to where the next meal comes from, trying to help them navigate the minefield of questions that could release the funds to feed their children, whilst indirectly providing reassurance and pastoral care for little more than minimum wage, but you would treat a senior nurse on a salary close to 40k to an afternoon watching City, with a meal and a glass of fizz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Pops - why have you quoted me into a conversation of which I have no previous? 
You are a strange chap. 
Why do you have a bee in your bonnet about me working in private healthcare? It’s my job, it pays me handsomely, but it doesn’t rule my politics or my morals. 
 

Since you’ve brought me into your conversation, I actually agree with Bristol Rob on his points toward you. If football clubs want to offer free tickets to NHS staff then great, that’s their lookout. But you seem to be on a mission to ‘expect’ all clubs to do this. Why? Why is it footballs responsibility to do something? 
I admire the NHS folks who are currently ploughing through a tonne of shit. I’d also point out that private healthcare is also putting everything to this cause too. Non urgent appointments have all been cancelled, no new appointments are to be booked, client premiums are going to be refunded for the fact that no claims can be made whilst this is ongoing and those refunds of premiums actively impact on my commission earned, thus my own take home pay. But I’m not bothered about that, as I know my industry is doing the right thing for the greater good. 

Rob’s point about profits in football is a valid one. Most clubs don’t make money. Most actually lose a lot of money. There are multiple reasons for that, mainly player wages. Football might have a kick up it’s backside after this to sort itself out. But right now, most clubs make a loss - why are you expecting loss making businesses to offer up free stuff. 
Many retail outlets have been feeling the pinch lately, making losses - maybe River Island should start making face masks instead of menswear and give 10 million of them away to every nhs worker, every delivery driver, every shop assistant, etc. 
 

Why is it footballs job? 

It's an indicator, are we all in it together as a society? No, we are not. If not football tickets for key workers, why not have clubs show flexibility on ticket deadlines etc.

Burnley players donated to a foodbank- some players have a wider sense of things, many do not... 

Nothing personal to you and your commission, but it's about time with Private Health. Do they train doctors and nurses?

Heard a statement that BUPA have trained zilch. So no, I'm not a fan of the sector as a whole. 

That's disingenuous. Most loss making industries and even profitable ones have made major cutbacks. Emergency cutbacks. Yet the biggest cost in football must be honoured at all costs.

Some football have too- one article I read that fan pressure played a role in Barca salary cut, I assume Barcelona as a city is suffering quite heavily with this virus. Leeds I applaud,  deferral or not they did it for the greater good, much like your industry.

Saw an article that suggested Deal between Government and Private Health sector was £2.3m per day at cost. Fine, but in Spain it was requisitioned. I think paying at cost is reasonably fair BTW but then again in a global pandemic...

How.many retail staff have been laid off? % wise? Greater % than highly paid footballers I'd suggest. 

Saw on the news tonight that bank dividends may not be paid due to Coronavirus. Plus, cash bonuses to bank executives may also not be paid.

I'd turn it on its head. Why should football be an exception here? 

I'm sure certain journos would be interested in it, the differentials here, at this club. Bristol Sport.

Football has long had an imbalance. Hope this brings in some good changes.

Strange chap? Get ****** in one respect.

@Bristol Rob

Okay not maybe then. Free tickets as opposed to corporate hospitality. Free tickets at an average ticket price, 1,000 of these might cost £30-35k. Applications online surely now, the freshly unemployed- vast bulk would be.

NHS is the best thing about this country full stop IMO. Full stop.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’m pretty sure all, if not most of them have some access to money/credit cards, until they get their lump sum back dated to 1st March. 
I’m not sure why you think footballers should shoulder guilt for it. 

I'm not saying footballers should shoulder guilt, you were questioning if thousands were struggling and I said yes I think they are and not everyone has access to money, a lot of people live week to week and have no back up money.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my thought of the day..

The govt covers 80% of one's salary. This is a fairly generous amount and quite an incentive to stay at home regardless of a shut down. 

This month the govt are looking at bringing in the 100,000 or so seasonal, predominantly East European, labourers to harvest our food crops. Does this not portent to importing the potential covid 19 in far greater numbers from countries who may not be doing the same rigourous lock downs?

Back to the 80% figure; a huge disincentive to be a part time food harvester and help in the national effort... Hence why we need those foreign labourers.

Seems to me the govt has pandered to public demand and paid out an over generous emergency fund while not considering the implications. This being just one.

Damned if they do and don't.

Edited by havanatopia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Like who..? 
A 20% wage drop for (some) furlough workers - with very little to spend money on at present..? 
I’m struggling to think of many that will be struggling as a result of this, who don’t generally anyway..?

Peoples who get payed commission and bonuses who will only get 80 percent of there basic wage I think they may struugle

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thought they'd shut job centres, surely people largely applying online. 

They're the last ******* I'd offer any perks to. Stuff about them online... 

There are still people processing the claims, just because you apply online doesn’t mean it’s done by robots. Most of the assessments is done in Belfast, there is a phone line to call too. There are still JCPs, with people who see claimants on a regular basis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Except for those unlucky ones laid off in the week or two before the measures announced...

In the queue for Universal Credit- saw on the news someone was 9,000 (!?) in the online queue. 475,000 applications for it in that week. 

I digress but ex employees of companies who made swift and brutual yet probably necessary decisions...bad luck.

But even that’s been covered. Anyone laid off immediately prior to the announcements can and have been encouraged to be taken back on as furlough employees. So that they get the 80% government funding. 
of course there will be the odd exception, but generally people are being looked after. 

  • Hmmm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, weepywall said:

I'm not saying footballers should shoulder guilt, you were questioning if thousands were struggling and I said yes I think they are and not everyone has access to money, a lot of people live week to week and have no back up money.

Of course they do. But they aren’t usually self employed. Self employed people can even use their deferred tax money to tide them over until the lump sum arrives. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Robin Wood said:

Peoples who get payed commission and bonuses who will only get 80 percent of there basic wage I think they may struugle

Yes, true. 
I’m not sure how they stand. I think they probably get 80% of an average pay cheque though. Similar to self employed people who get 80% of a 3 year average (capped) as their income/profit fluctuates according to workload. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Of course they do. But they aren’t usually self employed. Self employed people can even use their deferred tax money to tide them over until the lump sum arrives. 

I cant be bothered mate...you questioned if " thousands are really struggling" I said yes I think they are and I know plenty that are struggling at the moment, they may not be struggling in June but they are now, my family members run a street food market, been self employed for about a year, their income stopped overnight, they are on I think £94 a week but haven't received anything yet, their landlord hasnt confirmed a rent holiday yet, they have no access to back up money, they are struggling, now they may well be the only 2 people out of the population in that position but I would be surprised if that was the case.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Honest question, why would a football club furlough non playing staff but not the players?  Is the reason they don’t want to annoy the players (god forbid), or is it because of contracts (or bad contracts), just seems massively unfair 

Great question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's an indicator, are we all in it together as a society? No, we are not. If not football tickets for key workers, why not have clubs show flexibility on ticket deadlines etc.

Because clubs have to budget in advance and without some indication of their income, that could prove problematic as they try and comply with FFP etc

 

Burnley players donated to a foodbank- some players have a wider sense of things, many do not... 

Charitable donations are a personal thing generally not something people openly discuss. Am example being, I am happy to donate to the British Legion, but due to how they have previously spent monies received, I choose not to donate to Help For Heroes.

Nothing personal to you and your commission, but it's about time with Private Health. Do they train doctors and nurses?

Universities and academic facilities train Doctors and Nurses, they then enter the workspace to gain experience, this is likely to be the NHS in the first instance.

Heard a statement that BUPA have trained zilch. So no, I'm not a fan of the sector as a whole. 

That's disingenuous. Most loss making industries and even profitable ones have made major cutbacks. Emergency cutbacks. Yet the biggest cost in football must be honoured at all costs.

So you advocate reducing the amount of money the treasury receive at this difficult time because some people have been forced to take a wage cut.

Some football have too- one article I read that fan pressure played a role in Barca salary cut, I assume Barcelona as a city is suffering quite heavily with this virus. Leeds I applaud,  deferral or not they did it for the greater good, much like your industry.

The only benefit from a deferment is to the entity that pays/underwriters the salary, the money will need to be returned to the individual at some point, meanwhile less tax is collected.

Any furloughed colleagues will receive 80% of their income and are now able (if they want to) take temporary employment elsewhere.

Saw an article that suggested Deal between Government and Private Health sector was £2.3m per day at cost. Fine, but in Spain it was requisitioned. I think paying at cost is reasonably fair BTW but then again in a global pandemic...

Private care companies reduce the burden the NHS faces every year by means of offering an alternative, however it sounds like they have recognised the need of the NHS and both sides have a deal in place they are comfortable with. I haven't heard that it was a difficult negotiation, and I haven't heard if this is done at cost or for profit.

How.many retail staff have been laid off? % wise? Greater % than highly paid footballers I'd suggest. 

More shops, more people. So the numbers will be high. Maybe ask the question, 'average length of a professional footballers career and the average length of a retail workers career'

Saw on the news tonight that bank dividends may not be paid due to Coronavirus. Plus, cash bonuses to bank executives may also not be paid.

I'd turn it on its head. Why should football be an exception here? 

Because footballers don't work in global economics and have a responsibility for pension funds or to share holders. They are paid to do a specific job. Bankers are paid to do specific jobs as well. But the industries aren't comparable.

I'm sure certain journos would be interested in it, the differentials here, at this club. Bristol Sport.

Football has long had an imbalance. Hope this brings in some good changes.

Strange chap? Get ****** in one respect.

@Bristol Rob

Okay not maybe then. Free tickets as opposed to corporate hospitality. Free tickets at an average ticket price, 1,000 of these might cost £30-35k. Applications online surely now, the freshly unemployed- vast bulk would be.

Not sure what you are suggesting here

 

NHS is the best thing about this country full stop IMO. Full stop.

Some thoughts embedded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Honest question, why would a football club furlough non playing staff but not the players?  Is the reason they don’t want to annoy the players (god forbid), or is it because of contracts (or bad contracts), just seems massively unfair 

Not 100% sure but I read a quote from the pfa chairman saying clubs who deferred payment to players would be embargoed from signing new ones. If that is the case that would probably explain it. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, weepywall said:

I cant be bothered mate...you questioned if " thousands are really struggling" I said yes I think they are and I know plenty that are struggling at the moment, they may not be struggling in June but they are now, my family members run a street food market, been self employed for about a year, their income stopped overnight, they are on I think £94 a week but haven't received anything yet, their landlord hasnt confirmed a rent holiday yet, they have no access to back up money, they are struggling, now they may well be the only 2 people out of the population in that position but I would be surprised if that was the case.

Granted. My initial point was other people not meaning that footballers should shoulder guilt over being paid. 
There are options for self employed people to get by - with guaranteed income funding due, it’s not reckless to get a loan or get by on credit cards until that comes through. Banks are offering interest free over draught extensions. 
Half the risk of being self employed is getting through slow periods. It’s always a struggle to an extent, by nature. 
At least this time around there’s guaranteed income due in June. 
 

I hope they sort out getting by until that comes their way. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think they've now said you can contact your ex-employer and get them to retrospectively put you on a furlough, so you can be paid.

It's good this happened. It's poor it wasn't thought of in the first place.

It was announced with the first list of criteria for the Furlough status. 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Honest question, why would a football club furlough non playing staff but not the players?  Is the reason they don’t want to annoy the players (god forbid), or is it because of contracts (or bad contracts), just seems massively unfair 

I'm guessing, it will be because players still have to work, they'll be training every day, doing the digital homework they get set, forced to follow a strict diet and all that sort of thing.

Whereas there isn't any work or expectation of work for a lot of other employees.

'Tis only a guess however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Not 100% sure but I read a quote from the pfa chairman saying clubs who deferred payment to players would be embargoed from signing new ones. If that is the case that would probably explain it. 
 

I would expect the majority of footballers would actually feel pretty uncomfortable taking their full salary whilst non playing staff they know and work with, who they know get paid a fraction  of the players wages, are getting 80% at best.  The PFA look out of touch with current events to me, it’s more about the morality of enforcing that players still get paid full whack, than the legality I think

Edited by Tinmans Love Child
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yes, true. 
I’m not sure how they stand. I think they probably get 80% of an average pay cheque though. Similar to self employed people who get 80% of a 3 year average (capped) as their income/profit fluctuates according to workload. 

No they get 80% of basic commission and bonuses not included 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I'm guessing, it will be because players still have to work, they'll be training every day, doing the digital homework they get set, forced to follow a strict diet and all that sort of thing.

Whereas there isn't any work or expectation of work for a lot of other employees.

'Tis only a guess however.

I read on here somewhere, with some evidence, that the government have agreed that footballers are not working from home as their "work" is on a match day - rightly or wrongly that was the outcome apparently.

They can therefore technically be on furlough.

I have no idea of contractual situations and legalities but I don't see why they should be treated differently.

As an aside, people are saying that staff get 80% of their salary on furlough from the government which is incorrect as I understand it. The company gets the 80% to pay staff and there is nothing stopping them topping it up with the other 20% if they wish/can afford it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I read on here somewhere, with some evidence, that the government have agreed that footballers are not working from home as their "work" is on a match day - rightly or wrongly that was the outcome apparently.

They can therefore technically be on furlough.

I have no idea of contractual situations and legalities but I don't see why they should be treated differently.

As an aside, people are saying that staff get 80% of their salary on furlough from the government which is incorrect as I understand it. The company gets the 80% to pay staff and there is nothing stopping them topping it up with the other 20% if they wish/can afford it.

 

I thought the 80% was capped at £2,500 per month. Which probably won't pay for the monthly car insurance premiums some of them pay.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do you work in private health like @Harry

Would explain a few things. Suspect he'd be less than enthusiastic too, about the idea. 

Regarding football, I give Burnley the award so far.

1) Paying casual staff (last time I looked). 

2) If they're paying casual staff then surely regular staff are being paid. 

3) Donated to foodbank. Unsure if it was cash or food.  Their foodbank thing is football related BTW.

4) Joined the NHS tickets thing.

Now granted they're in PL and their income streams are great but Burnley FC!! :clap:

The actions of a proper ‘community’ club when it’s actually desperately needed.  Actions rather than words. Good on them. 

  • Like 1
  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I thought the 80% was capped at £2,500 per month. Which probably won't pay for the monthly car insurance premiums some of them pay.

Very true (which I overlooked...Doh !)

But still a sizeable saving for a club with say 30 professionals on the books and would show some moral fortitude and empathy with non playing staff.

 

  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...