Worst sacking of a City manager ever

[Guest]

13 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Tony Fawthtop...

Didn’t he resign ?

[The Coach]

43 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Reid, Bryan and Kelly were all academy graduates.

I’ll give LJ credit for Kelly. Bryan we all knew would go on to do better and we were extremely lucky with Reid and pulled Cardiff’s pants down.

[alexukhc]

59 minutes ago, TomF said:

Didn’t he resign ?

My bad

[DSTAF]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

Didn’t he resign ?

Yes. But not entirely his decision if I recall correctly. Resign or be pushed was muted. 

[Dr Balls]

15 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Or less. We could've bombed Dicksy out in '74, and approached Brian Howard Clough, languishing in Div 3 at Brighton, or in the four months he was doing nothing between leaving Leeds and going to Forest. 

Or in '78, we might've approached St. Mirren, asking to speak to their young, up and coming manager.

"It doesn't work like that, mate" I know, I know ..... too much time on me hands ..... need to get out more .....

 

AD was undone by losing Norman Hunter and not having a half decent replacement for 79/80. And considering that he had managed to keep us in the 1st Division in 76/77, after losing his top striker in the first home game of the season, and then made a bit of progress in terms of league position in the following 2 seasons you could see why he was still in credit with the board. And I am not sure that AD was primarily responsible for the long contracts that caused so much financial difficulty 2 years later.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

There`s an argument for Joe Morrell - he just needs to be given a chance IMO. Max O`Leary too.

True, there’s an argument for Joe Morrell but there’s also a counter argument. Why didn’t LJ bring him back from Lincoln in January instead of signing the midfield on loan (he was so poor I can’t remember his name)?   He had hardly played a proper game all season and was nowhere near match fit. IMO a manager who really believed in youth would have gone with an in form match fit player - ie Joe Morrell. (If there wasn’t a recall clause in Morrell’s loan, then my apologies to LJ)

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

True, there’s an argument for Joe Morrell but there’s also a counter argument. Why didn’t LJ bring him back from Lincoln in January instead of signing the midfield on loan (he was so poor I can’t remember his name)?   He had hardly played a proper game all season and was nowhere near match fit. IMO a manager who really believed in youth would have gone with an in form match fit player - ie Joe Morrell. (If there wasn’t a recall clause in Morrell’s loan, then my apologies to LJ)

It was more an answer to the question about which academy players could break into the first team and be classed as a success really.

[RobintheRed Red]

On 11/04/2020 at 21:34, Portland Bill said:

Cotterill getting sacked totally changed my way of thinking re City. 

I honestly thought we were better than that.

He had given us long suffering fans the best season in decades ( imo) and deserved to be treated with far more respect than I feel he got given. 

That was the moment I thought I just couldn’t carry on travelling to Ashton Gate after 40 years of doing it. 

I still say he shouldn't have been backed by SL, and worst of all SL bought in a manager that was a ‘mate’ rather than actually looking around for quality. 

 

Totally agree mate was shit on he wanted three players to take the club further lansdown told him he was moving too quick cotts  threw  a sulk and was stubborn sacked himself to bring in  lansdowns family friend and here we are fifty odd players later playing dull an unatractive football.

[Portland Bill]

On 12/04/2020 at 10:33, Robbored said:

Brownhill, bought young and relatively cheap. 

We have to remember that it’s not always first teamers that fill the sustainability bill and nor are these players all academy graduates. 

The question was “through the academy”.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

The question was “through the academy”.

The three academy graduates that earned moves to the PL was Reid, Bryan and Kelly. I certainly can’t think of any others.

However many academy players that aren’t quite Championship quality forge professional careers elsewhere. 

[Portland Bill]

On 11/04/2020 at 21:44, Robbored said:

SCs sacking has been discussed on here numerous times so I must assume that you missed those threads..........

Cotterill was sacked because he reneged on his assurances at interview that he’d implement SLs strategy of buying youngsters, developing them into Championship quality or selling them on if they don’t make the grade.

He failed deliver and because of that SL lost any trust in him and employed a man who knows Bristol City well and who he trusts to implement his sustainability strategy and nobody can deny that LJ has done exactly what it says on the tin.

He was sacked because he had real ambition for the club, unfortunately the owner didn’t feel the same at the time, NO other Championship club would have bought in LJ, he had done nothing, and four years later it’s the same. 

We were on the crest of a wave after just winning a title, the club was buzzing and SC was looking to bring in real top quality signings. SC wasn’t backed by the owner, and the rest is history.

We then bring in a mid table league one novice manager, the owner gives him untold riches, the novice manager then spends the next 4 years playing dull sterile football, except for a 3 month period when injuries force him to pick a settled side, ( he still hasn’t learn the lesson from that period ) once his overloaded squad are all available again he tinkers with the team on a weekly basis, and we go back to the dull boring dross and safety first football. 

 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

He was sacked because he had real ambition for the club, unfortunately the owner didn’t feel the same at the time, NO other Championship club would have bought in LJ, he had done nothing, and four years later it’s the same. 

We were on the crest of a wave after just winning a title, the club was buzzing and SC was looking to bring in real top quality signings. SC wasn’t backed by the owner, and the rest is history.

We then bring in a mid table league one novice manager, the owner gives him untold riches, the novice manager then spends the next 4 years playing dull sterile football, except for a 3 month period when injuries force him to pick a settled side, ( he still hasn’t learn the lesson from that period ) once his overloaded squad are all available again he tinkers with the team on a weekly basis, and we go back to the dull boring dross and safety first football. 

 

Clearly you’re  one of LJs critics..........and clearly a fan of SC.............

Nonetheless we are where we are and we fans just have to accept the things we cannot change. 

Whilst discussing historical matters on here is interesting enough it doesn’t actually change anything - we are where we are.........

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Clearly you’re  one of LJs critics..........and clearly a fan of SC.............

Nonetheless we are where we are and we fans just have to accept the things we cannot change. 

Whilst discussing historical matters on here is interesting enough it doesn’t actually change anything - we are where we are.........

Your correct, I don’t rate LJ as a manager or coach. Regarding SC, I personally think he shouldn't have been sacked.

I think any manager/coach who loses TEN games in a row ( remind you of anyone? ) is not at my club for his qualities, he is here because he’s being looked after by the man at the top.

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

7 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Your correct, I don’t rate LJ as a manager or coach. Regarding SC, I personally think he shouldn't have been sacked.

I think any manager/coach who loses TEN games in a row ( remind you of anyone? ) is not at my club for his qualities, he is here because he’s being looked after by the man at the top.

 

With all due respect, why would Lansdown pump In £40m of his own cash on a stadium rebuild and countless millions on players and paying off debt etc to risk it all by looking after LJ?  The only reason is that he trusts LJ to get the results, which whether you like it or not, he has delivered since coming in, albeit with dull football.  There is no way Lansdown would stick with LJ and risk the investment and progress made off the field to just help out LJ’s career.  During the losing streak Lansdown has said publicly that LJ was close to the chop.

Re: SC, there were no guarantees he was keeping us up, we had been on or near the bottom 3 all season and didn’t really show too many signs of getting out of it, plus SC had little precious at that level, so for me it was the correct design to sack.  That said, and despite comments on LJ above, to sack SC only to bring in an inexperienced manager was definitely a gamble at that time, but it worked no question. 

[ashton_fan]

On 10/04/2020 at 20:23, archie andrews said:

maybe dicks should have had more time.....

AD wasn't actually sacked, he was offered a job as "General Manager" (sort of Director of Football) but viewed it as being moved upstairs and left

[BS13 Robin]

Gonna divide opinions on this one......but I think Derek McInnes should have been given longer there were signs of what he was trying to do and signs that it was starting to happen!

 

[ashton_fan]

3 hours ago, BS13 Robin said:

Gonna divide opinions on this one......but I think Derek McInnes should have been given longer there were signs of what he was trying to do and signs that it was starting to happen!

 

His main problem was that he only knew about players in Scotland and signed a lot of dross while he was here (Ricky Foster, Mark Wilson, Stephen McManus, Stephen Pearson, Jody Morris etc), it was the players he brought in that sealed his fate

[tin]

I always thought Fawthrop was onto a good thing, same with Benny.

Wilson and Cotterill were both hard done by, but they were my favourite managers since '92 as they played football how I like it to be played. If either of those two were given the cash or the blind faith handed to LJ, we'd have enjoyed the ride a damn sight more that the turgid stale guf served up at home over most of the last four years (2017/18 excluded). 

[alexukhc]

6 hours ago, tin said:

I always thought Fawthrop was onto a good thing, same with Benny.

Wilson and Cotterill were both hard done by, but they were my favourite managers since '92 as they played football how I like it to be played. If either of those two were given the cash or the blind faith handed to LJ, we'd have enjoyed the ride a damn sight more that the turgid stale guf served up at home over most of the last four years (2017/18 excluded). 

Brains of Burnside, coached by Leroy and managed by Fawthrop

[pongo88]

11 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

His main problem was that he only knew about players in Scotland and signed a lot of dross while he was here (Ricky Foster, Mark Wilson, Stephen McManus, Stephen Pearson, Jody Morris etc), it was the players he brought in that sealed his fate

I could understand why McInnes did that when he arrived. but he didn't learn the lessons from his initial mistakes.  He kept signing Scottish dross. To misquote Oscar Wilde -To sign one rubbish player from Scotland may be regarded as a misfortune, to sign half a dozen looks like carelessness! 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

On 10/04/2020 at 21:34, Robbored said:

Danny Wilson. He should have got at least another season.

You’re kidding, right?  Nice guy by all accounts, but couldn’t get us promoted with all the resources available to him, and did nothing about a drinking culture that almost destroyed the club.  In the end, the man was an absolute disgrace.

[Robbored]

39 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You’re kidding, right?  Nice guy by all accounts, but couldn’t get us promoted with all the resources available to him, and did nothing about a drinking culture that almost destroyed the club.  In the end, the man was an absolute disgrace.

He didn’t get us promoted but that season when we reached the play off final was really enjoyable experience. That win against the Monkey Hangers at AG is so memorable that I’ll remember it until my dying  day. His astute substitutions won us that game by introducing Freezer . That entire season was such fun with some thrilling football and exciting games. 
Shame he messed up in the final but.................

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, MRSATAN said:

For me it has to be the sacking of cots.

he must be gutted after what he achieved he didn’t get the slack another manager has got after his(1) bad run

Cotts has had a lot of success in the lower leagues but hasn't managed it in the Championship after several attempts, I think it was the right decision to change when we did

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, MRSATAN said:

What happens at other clubs is irrelevant mate

for what he gave us the season before he should never have been dumped the way he was

i spent time with the captain of the team at the time and who was the first person cotts phoned crying as he told him he’d been sacked,

that is someone who cared deeply about the team, maybe if we’d have given him time and a shed load of money who knows where we’d be now

im 48 and the team he built the double winning year was the best I’ve seen as a group

strong,fast,clinical

Oh dear, someone doesn't understand FFP rules.

Fill. Your. Boots.

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

On the other hand, if he had shown patience and pragmatism in Year 1, and we had survived, he may well have inherited the benefits of the growth in income streams in subsequent years.

[glastonred]

For me it was the sacking of John Ward after having trounced Bolton at Ashton Gate. I remember leaving the ground feeling really happy with City's performance, and the next day hearing Ward had been sacked and replaced by Bennie Lennartsson. Couldn't believe it, and still can't!

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 hours ago, MRSATAN said:

What a silly response

i certainly understand FFP rules

what I’m getting at is he one bad run,one.

At some point if Lansdown had shown the same trust in him like he is Lee then yes I believe we would now be in a better position

 

Okay, apologies. 

Had seen these  arguments before which just overlooked FFP. I think that team that smashed the League One and JPT double was certainly capable of better.

That's not to say Cotts necessarily should've been sacked, but that. maybe had he shown a bit of patience and pragmatism that season to reap the rewards of that side combined with a rising budget in subsequent seasons. 

Baffles me slightly why we did so badly under Cotts that year, though performances perhaps outstripped results at times. Decent side, or at least strong Base from which to build...were Wilder's Sheffield United so much better on paper?

[Unan]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay, apologies. 

Had seen these  arguments before which just overlooked FFP. I think that team that smashed the League One and JPT double was certainly capable of better.

That's not to say Cotts necessarily should've been sacked, but that. maybe had he shown a bit of patience and pragmatism that season to reap the rewards of that side combined with a rising budget in subsequent seasons. 

Baffles me slightly why we did so badly under Cotts that year, though performances perhaps outstripped results at times. Decent side, or at least strong Base from which to build...were Wilder's Sheffield United so much better on paper?

Maybe my memory tricks me but I feel like we were unlucky in so many games, I little naive, but not poor. I remember vs Burnley, we outplayed them in both halves, but lost. They defended well, nicked a goal, and then managed the game, something we were incapable of doing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

Maybe my memory tricks me but I feel like we were unlucky in so many games, I little naive, but not poor. I remember vs Burnley, we outplayed them in both halves, but lost. They defended well, nicked a goal, and then managed the game, something we were incapable of doing.

There was certainly a bit of that. Conceded a few late goals as well, vital points lost, real momentum killers.

Remember off the top of my head, Charlton and MK Dons at home, both 1-1, both equalisers conceded by us within the last 10 mins. Burnley a good example and Cardiff away drew 0-0 but should've won. Sure we hit the woodwork that evening?